Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3100 on: 25/01/2009 18:01:24 »
deloun--
My "theoretical inclinations" with respect to POIS somehwat parallel what you have indicated in your last post i.e. neurotransmitter imbalance/s. However, to reinforce my inclinations (and I repeat these are just inclinations), would you be so kind as to list your symptoms from major to minor. The reason I ask this is due the fact that there is a clear spectrum of symptoms that have been identified in this forum. I have more of an amped up, anxiety response (with moderate fatigue)with insomnia, somewhat different than the majority of sufferers. With respect to POIS, based upon the totality of responses in this forum, it wouldn't surprise me if there were needed many different therapies and strategies depending on the symptoms. In fact, there are different approaches being taken by different memebers now. Also, some members have other underlying medical conditions which may complicate their POIS.

Demo---RE: CAFFEINE
I submit that it is really diffcult to say whether one has totally rid his/her diet of caffeine and sugar. The sugar issue is real complex (see last post). Caffeine is easier. I generally avoid caffeine scrupulously, but I can be seen at the coffee shop with decafe and a chocolate chip cookie. But very rarely, I think.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3101 on: 25/01/2009 18:07:14 »

Demo---RE: CAFFEINE
I submit that it is really diffcult to say whether one has totally rid his/her diet of caffeine and sugar. The sugar issue is real complex (see last post). Caffeine is easier. I generally avoid caffeine scrupulously, but I can be seen at the coffee shop with decafe and a chocolate chip cookie. But very rarely, I think.

Thanks, Underwater! For now, I'm holding on to caffeine to see what the wonders of Modern Endocrinology have in store for me....WITH coffee [:D] See you at the espresso palace!

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3102 on: 25/01/2009 18:09:05 »

For those saying that it's a physiological issue, I say that it most certainly is not.


digitalmac, please tell us what your non-physiological take on POIS is! (I asked you this before, on September 12, right after you posted the statement above, but never received a reply).
Thank you.

Demografx, perhaps digitalmac meant "it is not psychological" instead of "it is not physiological"--that seems to best fit the context of his post, especially since he followed that  statement by saying "I'm hoping that there is a relatively simple fix to this problem"--which would not be the case if it stemmed from pyschological trauma. 

But, I guess the best thing would be to hear from digitalmac himself!

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3103 on: 25/01/2009 18:10:53 »
I've had success with taking Fenugreek after seeing it recommended here. Normally my recovery period is 4-5 days. But taking Fenugreek an hour before orgasm cuts that time in half. Taking it *after* orgasm doesn't seem to have any effect.

Digitalmac--could you tell us how many fenugreek capsules you take one hour before orgasm, and what brand you are using?

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Offline digitalmac

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3104 on: 25/01/2009 18:13:55 »
Could you please go into detail about "cutting out sugar": sugar additives; sugar contained in sweets, pastries, cookies; certain fruits; sodas etc? Thanks

I'm a big fan of chocolate. For me, cutting out sugar simply means no chocolate milk or chocolate bars. I'd occasionally have a soda when going out to eat. So I've cut that out as well.

digitalmac, please tell us what your non-physiological take on POIS is!

For me, POIS has never seemed like something "all in the head", but rather some part of my body malfunctioning. The first time I experienced severe POIS symptoms was in October 2007. If I think back, I remember having a Venti coffee from Starbucks before having an orgasm that evening. The next 4 days I wondered "what happened". The past year I've suffered on repeat from POIS symptoms.

In my opinion, POIS symptoms are caused by the depletion of the adrenal glands. After a prolonged state of "caffeinism", your body enters a state of adrenal exhaustion. From there, your body is in a constant "fight-or-flight" mode trying to recover. When you have an orgasm, it adds to the existing stress your body is already under. The relapse period is how long it takes to get back the "baseline" of adrenal exhaustion.

Caffeine isn't the only thing that can deplete the adrenal glands though. Stress, nutritional deficiencies, and stimulants (sugar and alcohol) can do the same thing. Here is a good article on the side effects of coffee. Even though it's not directly related to POIS, I feel like there is a strong connection between the POIS systems and caffeine.

http://www.naturalnews.com/012352.html

If you are into reading, I'd also recommend a book called "Caffeine Blues".

http://www.amazon.com/Caffeine-Blues-Hidden-Dangers-Americas/dp/0446673919/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232905828&sr=8-1

This week is the best I've felt in a long, long time. I feel normal. It's remarkable! Definitely worth the two weeks of suffering through caffeine withdrawal. It will be interesting to see how my symptoms continue to improve over the next few months.
« Last Edit: 25/01/2009 18:18:55 by digitalmac »

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Offline digitalmac

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3105 on: 25/01/2009 18:15:08 »
Digitalmac--could you tell us how many fenugreek capsules you take one hour before orgasm, and what brand you are using?

I've been taking two capsules of the Solgar brand Fenugreek.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3106 on: 25/01/2009 19:07:32 »

Demografx, perhaps digitalmac meant "it is not psychological" instead of "it is not physiological"--


Thanks, guthrie! Even though digitalmac replied, you definitely clarified it for me with your post!

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Offline longwalkhome

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3107 on: 25/01/2009 19:30:29 »
By the way, has anyone ever pondered the question of whether Pois might eventually have lethal consequences? Sometimes when I'm in Pois mode, I just feel so awful, and I wonder how long my body can put up with this kind of feeling. It's like I'm under a year's worth of stress. I know that some people on this board have suffered from the effects of the Pois curse for a very long time - shouldn't there be some kind of long-term effect on our health if you have to go through this kind of stress for a long time? Like when you actually grow weaker - for good - from certain other kinds of disease?

Also, I sometimes experience some very disturbing problems with my heart when I'm under Pois - it usually starts with my heart "skipping a beat", and a higher pulse. After that I sometimes get slight pains in my left arm for maybe an evening or so. These symptoms usually leave together with the rest of the Pois symptoms. Also, I've had my heart checked several times because of this, even when under Pois - but the doctors didn't find anything alarming.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3108 on: 25/01/2009 19:34:09 »

In my opinion, POIS symptoms are caused by the depletion of the adrenal glands. After a prolonged state of "caffeinism", your body enters a state of adrenal exhaustion. From there, your body is in a constant "fight-or-flight" mode trying to recover. When you have an orgasm, it adds to the existing stress your body is already under. The relapse period is how long it takes to get back the "baseline" of adrenal exhaustion.


In my discussion with my psychiatrist last week about caffeine, she mentioned that many studies are now showing the benefits of caffeine, even in fighting fatigue. Here is an example of some Harvard studies:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=harvard+study+caffeine&aq=f&oq=
« Last Edit: 25/01/2009 19:37:34 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3109 on: 25/01/2009 19:47:48 »
By the way, has anyone ever pondered the question of whether Pois might eventually have lethal consequences? Sometimes when I'm in Pois mode, I just feel so awful, and I wonder how long my body can put up with this kind of feeling. It's like I'm under a year's worth of stress. I know that some people on this board have suffered from the effects of the Pois curse for a very long time - shouldn't there be some kind of long-term effect on our health if you have to go through this kind of stress for a long time? Like when you actually grow weaker - for good - from certain other kinds of disease?

Also, I sometimes experience some very disturbing problems with my heart when I'm under Pois - it usually starts with my heart "skipping a beat", and a higher pulse. After that I sometimes get slight pains in my left arm for maybe an evening or so. These symptoms usually leave together with the rest of the Pois symptoms. Also, I've had my heart checked several times because of this, even when under Pois - but the doctors didn't find anything alarming.

I would never underestimate the vicious damage potentially wrought by POIS. We have had some extremely desperate situations here at the forum, unfortunately. I had the same experience as you with the heart and the doctors, including cardiologists.

Longterm, I believe that accumulated damage can easily occur. With over 30 years of POIS, I'm sure I would be a different person, all other things being equal. Optimism and motivation must be affected for most people, with either full-blown POIS and/or the threat of POIS always being "just around the corner".

But I'm also optimistic that much of POIS damage can be reversed!
« Last Edit: 25/01/2009 20:09:49 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3110 on: 25/01/2009 20:01:30 »

... maybe your psychiatrist would add "... if the adrenal glands are ok !" :)


B_Jim, is there a way to test for adrenal glands' health?
« Last Edit: 25/01/2009 20:04:37 by demografx »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3111 on: 25/01/2009 20:59:16 »
longwalkhome--
I have pondered your question. I've had a myriad of symptoms over the last 20-30 years (panic/anxiety/pois). But I'm very optimistic. Be strong. This forum will give you strength. I know for sure I was POIS free, anxiety free and panic free, from 1978-1988. I was a serious long distance runner,marathoner,triathlete. Undoubtedly I overwhelmed by body with endorphins. 20 years have passed and I cannot produce that kind of effect. But I swim. It helps a bit. I am about to rid myself of anxiety and panic (last 20 months). POIS remains. It will be diminished also. If I can find something to "take the place" of endorphins, it will be defeated also. History is full of great men and women who suffered immensely but who lived long, fullfilling lives. So we suffer periodically, have serious doubt, lament our mortality. It may even accumulate. But it won't defeat us.

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Offline rock27

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3112 on: 25/01/2009 21:31:21 »
@demo: I don't drink coffee. Just a bit of tea. I do eat sugar. Last year I went cold turkey on most sugar. Didn't have effect on POIS though. There are however signs my body is under stress. For example I am wearing a thing in my mouth at night to prevent my back tooth from crushing each other, since 8 years. I am convinced I crush more in POIS.

@longwalkhome
I am feeling too that pois is very powerfull. However this forum has convinced me that we will find a cure. You also contribute a lot to this forum and are also part of finding the cure. You tried Fenugreek and reported on this. Next thing you can do is to try another thing, or write to universities in Germany (endocrinology departments). List your POIS experience, make your story credible (for example mention the NYC article, the published Waldinger scientific research, this forum). If you need help writing send me a private message. Good luck!


« Last Edit: 25/01/2009 21:34:13 by rock27 »
POIS, fatigue, brain fog, can't find words, irritated, can't concentrate.

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Offline martin88

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3113 on: 25/01/2009 23:24:02 »
I like Martin's idea, a general guide for forum decorum.
Thank you John. Maybe we'll never see this!


About other discussions (Coffee- Thyroid) :
I remember that a french naturopath, (Robert Masson) was saying that some people who were used to drink coffee every morning when they were childs and then who stopped suddenly had more chances to suffer from their thyroid. Sometimes it's necessary to go back to coffee to avoid the thyroid problem, he says...

Personally I can't drink coffee it makes me very irritable with insomnia, however, after this bad episode, I was able to be back to one cup of coffee / day without problem when I was running everyday. (my sleep and the way I was eating were better). Maybe there is something we can do to be able to drink coffee again ?
Also I think coffee is depleting Inositol.

Several people here including me are reporting OCD and panic attacks. Did someone tried high doses of inositol for this ?
12g/day for panic and 18g for OCD.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/152/7/1084
METHOD: Twenty-one patients with panic disorder with or without agoraphobia completed a double- blind, placebo-controlled, 4-week, random-assignment crossover treatment trial of 12 g/day of inositol. RESULTS: The frequency and severity of panic attacks and the severity of agoraphobia declined significantly more after inositol than after placebo administration. Side effects were minimal. CONCLUSIONS: The authors conclude that inositol's efficacy, the absence of significant side effects, and the fact that inositol is a natural component of the human diet make it a potentially attractive therapeutic for panic disorder.

For OCD:
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/153/9/1219

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3114 on: 25/01/2009 23:30:23 »
For anyone who'd interested:

Here's a couple articles on the negative effects of sugar. The first one is called 76 Ways Sugar Can Ruin Your Health,
the second on Insulin and It's Metabolic Effects.

http://www.mercola.com/article/sugar/dangers_of_sugar.htm
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2001/07/14/insulin-part-one.aspx

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3115 on: 25/01/2009 23:35:02 »
Thanks Martin for the info. on inositol. I have never heard of this being helpful for panic attacks.
I wonder if it can help insomnia too.

As for coffee, there is NO WAY I can drink it with my adrenals and cortisol levels being as they are.
Coffee seems to work best for healthy people with strong adrenals, and that's not me.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3116 on: 25/01/2009 23:37:13 »

... maybe your psychiatrist would add "... if the adrenal glands are ok !" :)


B_Jim, is there a way to test for adrenal glands' health?


The cortisol tests can show to a certain extent what level the adrenals are functioning at. You can do either
spit, blood or urine tests.

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3117 on: 26/01/2009 01:37:44 »
I don't drink coffee unless it is a social event as it seems to effect my stomach and the caffein effect is very uneven(jittery) but I have regularly drink soft drinks.  I used to drink Jolt everyday and it seemed to keep me from getting run down especially mentally.  Every now and then I feel  a need  for chocolate but I can gt the same result from eating most kinds of fruit.

I had a very stressful day last week and experienced symptoms similar to a POIS attack (without orgasm) The recovery was much more rapid though and am back on track.  I don't believe that PIoS is psycholigical  but is a physiological response to  trauma or perceived trauma.   

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Offline Jack D

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3118 on: 26/01/2009 01:39:42 »
Hi, I would like to add my name to the list of POIS suffers. I began to experience the symptoms when I was 30. I am now 47. I am in good health. I eat an organic almost vegetarian diet, and exercise frequently. When I was 30 and was in a committed relationship, I was starting to believe that I was allergic to my girlfriend. Symptoms were like a hangover for me. Diminished mental capacity (brain fog), and extreme fatigue. It would take 2 to 3 days to get back to normal.

Anyway, I am very happy to find this forum, and I wanted to add my name to the list so that it is compelling if presented to the medical community.

Thank you for being here. It has been a stress relief to know that I am not the only one in the boat. I had a look at page 74 and I am immediately beginning a therapy of fenugreek seeds, which I had known about from Indian cuisine. I hope it helps or maybe even works.

Thanks again for being here, wherever here is...


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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3119 on: 26/01/2009 02:14:52 »
good job everyone for following up on Jane Ashby,she might be a big clue.
Demografx nice letter short and to the point.



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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3120 on: 26/01/2009 02:32:18 »
i was going to wait on response but this is too good.

message from pois sufferer who fixed problem sounds eerily similar to Demografx situation


Hi there,

Apologies for the delay in replying. Iam getting out and about these days :)

Yes I solved my POIS by reimbalancing my hormone profile as well as my
nuerotransmitter levels and also by amending diet.

I had the following through blood, urine and saliva test results:

Low morning, afternoon Cortisol+low Dhea = Adrenal fatigue

Treatment : Medrol/Hydrocortisone & Dhea cream/Sublingually

Low Cortisol levels/adrenal fatigue usually indicates Thyroid problems

Free T3 : below mid range

Treatment : Armour

Low testosterone levels

Treatments :

1st: Testosterone replacement (Bad approach)
2nd: Testosterone natural boosting supplements (Negative)
3rd: Hcg+Hmg+Toco-8 plus increase of protein and less carbs, more red meat, fish and lots of cruciferous vegetables ie broccoli (Successful)

High prolactin levels

Cabaser/Cabergoline/Dostinex at dose of 1-2mg E2d lowered Prolactin to
within the lower 1/4 range. High prolactin levels means lower testosterone levels.By reducing
ones high prolactin levels it will naturally increase testosterone levels.

My advice would be to have your 4x saliva cortisol levels, dhea, total test+free/bio test,
prolactin, Estradiol(E2), SHBG & FSH+LH levels checked either through your local gp/dr or through an independant lab like ZRT, Quest etc

I also reimbalanced my neurotransmitter levels and this helped with the anxiety and overall nervousness feeling after an orgasm.Both my serotonin and gaba levels were below the level range.

This is how I cured my POIS and it most likely will not work for everyone but at least you can ask your Dr for a hormone check up and request the hormones above to be checked. If doc asks you why then you can either lie or tell him/her the truth about POIS :)

Had to be quick so have missed out some any questions please ask.

Hope this is helpful,

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3121 on: 26/01/2009 02:49:38 »

The cortisol tests can show to a certain extent what level the adrenals are functioning at. You can do either spit, blood or urine tests.


Good. I'm taking a cortisol AM test in early March.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3122 on: 26/01/2009 02:54:58 »
good job everyone for following up on Jane Ashby,she might be a big clue.
Demografx nice letter short and to the point.

Thanks, CCconfucius. Only problem is that we might have written to the wrong Jane Ashby. This one is a psychologist but has no "sex" at all in her CV. I emailed the Program Chair, hopefully he'll clarify. My email was sent to a Jane Ashby at U of Mass., if anyone can confirm/deny that she is the April speaker.

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Offline mister_z

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3123 on: 26/01/2009 11:55:31 »
hi, i am new here, i have been lurking for a while trying to find answers to my own problem.
my symptoms vary in severity after orgasm (and sometimes i am able to feel it coming on before orgasm) they include:
- sudden fatigue
- flu like feelings
- shivering (sometimes very strong)
- low blood pressure
- great difficulty standing up
- feeling sleepy
- digestive cramps usually followed by diarrhea
- shaking
- sometimes cold sweat
- heart rythm seems normal except it feels like it is "booming"
- stuffy ears and nose
- breathing can increase rythm dramatically
i asked my cardios (yes i have a couple of them) about this stuff but they doubt it is directly heart related or are unwilling to find some explanation for it.
lately i had a free testosterone test done and found out much to my surprise that it is very low. Ill have to do again to confirm it before i get testosterone supplements...
i tried boosting aminoacids (all of them) intake as well as proteins... not very conclusive...
i have also noticed that i tend to be more... "in the mood" when tired , strangely enough; it has come to the point where if i feel often in the mood for a few days ill know that i am actually physically or mentally exhausted... (or can be the reverse, i get exhausted as a result)
id like to avoid 5HTP or SSRIs as i noticed they tend to make me feel quite... jittery
i had some cortisol tests done but i consider them inconclusive as they were done with improper timing (they did it with the timing of someone who wakes up at 8am and so on whilst i wake up at noon usually)
this has been going on for years (since i was around like 15, first time it happened it really gave me a very big scare)

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3124 on: 26/01/2009 13:39:11 »
good job everyone for following up on Jane Ashby,she might be a big clue.
Demografx nice letter short and to the point.

Thanks, CCconfucius. Only problem is that we might have written to the wrong Jane Ashby. This one is a psychologist but has no "sex" at all in her CV. I emailed the Program Chair, hopefully he'll clarify. My email was sent to a Jane Ashby at U of Mass., if anyone can confirm/deny that she is the April speaker.

Yeah, I came across that Jane Ashby when I did my google search, but didn't mention her since she didn't seem like the right one.  Especially since she is a PhD, whereas the person giving the talk in April does not have PhD listed by her name on the program.  So I think we might still have to find out more from the conference organizers.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3125 on: 26/01/2009 16:14:32 »
message from pois sufferer who fixed problem sounds eerily similar to Demografx situation

I had the following through blood, urine and saliva test results:

Low morning, afternoon Cortisol+low Dhea = Adrenal fatigue

Treatment : Medrol/Hydrocortisone & Dhea cream/Sublingually

Low Cortisol levels/adrenal fatigue usually indicates Thyroid problems

Free T3 : below mid range

Treatment : Armour

Low testosterone levels

Treatments :

1st: Testosterone replacement (Bad approach)
2nd: Testosterone natural boosting supplements (Negative)
3rd: Hcg+Hmg+Toco-8 plus increase of protein and less carbs, more red meat, fish and lots of cruciferous vegetables ie broccoli (Successful)

High prolactin levels

Cabaser/Cabergoline/Dostinex at dose of 1-2mg E2d lowered Prolactin to
within the lower 1/4 range. High prolactin levels means lower testosterone levels.By reducing
ones high prolactin levels it will naturally increase testosterone levels.


My advice would be to have your 4x saliva cortisol levels, dhea, total test+free/bio test,
prolactin, Estradiol(E2), SHBG & FSH+LH levels checked either through your local gp/dr or through an independant lab like ZRT, Quest etc

I also reimbalanced my neurotransmitter levels and this helped with the anxiety and overall nervousness feeling after an orgasm.Both my serotonin and gaba levels were below the level range.

This is how I cured my POIS and it most likely will not work for everyone but at least you can ask your Dr for a hormone check up and request the hormones above to be checked. If doc asks you why then you can either lie or tell him/her the truth about POIS :)

EVERYBODY--Please take a good look at this.

This is from the same guy (ex-POIS forum member) who helped me get a clue as to how to begin dealing with my many
hormonal imbalances. What is significant is that he had MULTI hormonal imbalances, as I do, and as I suspect many
other POIS sufferers may have as well. By addressing ALL of them, he was cured of POIS.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3126 on: 26/01/2009 17:07:22 »
good job everyone for following up on Jane Ashby,she might be a big clue.
Demografx nice letter short and to the point.


Thanks, CCconfucius. Only problem is that we might have written to the wrong Jane Ashby. This one is a psychologist but has no "sex" at all in her CV. I emailed the Program Chair, hopefully he'll clarify. My email was sent to a Jane Ashby at U of Mass., if anyone can confirm/deny that she is the April speaker.

I will see if the researcher has a way to contact jane ashby.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3127 on: 26/01/2009 17:56:28 »

I will see if the researcher has a way to contact jane ashby.


Thanks, CCc! The program chair hasn't responded to me.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3128 on: 26/01/2009 17:58:50 »

Demograpfx and  was wondering did you take your test during POIS or out of Pois.


The test was out-of-POIS, but only by a few days. It wasn't planned that way, it was just when I wanted to move forward and get the ball rolling.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3129 on: 26/01/2009 18:03:07 »
Welcome, mister_z!

Here are some forum resources which may be helpful:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video: A first!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".


mister_z, we're looking forward to more of your posts!


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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3130 on: 26/01/2009 18:44:35 »
deloun--
My "theoretical inclinations" with respect to POIS somehwat parallel what you have indicated in your last post i.e. neurotransmitter imbalance/s. However, to reinforce my inclinations (and I repeat these are just inclinations), would you be so kind as to list your symptoms from major to minor. The reason I ask this is due the fact that there is a clear spectrum of symptoms that have been identified in this forum. I have more of an amped up, anxiety response (with moderate fatigue)with insomnia, somewhat different than the majority of sufferers. With respect to POIS, based upon the totality of responses in this forum, it wouldn't surprise me if there were needed many different therapies and strategies depending on the symptoms. In fact, there are different approaches being taken by different memebers now. Also, some members have other underlying medical conditions which may complicate their POIS.

Yes, I agree that there seem to be differences in causes and solutions needed.

The POIS symptoms I suffer from are:
- tension (physically and mentally)
- nervousness
- (social) anxiety
- depression
- low self-confidence
- lower cognitive function and memory
- concentration problems
- tiredness
- flu-like symptoms
- mild insomnia
- mild diarrhea

It's a bit difficult to list them all in the order of major to minor, but about the first eight I listed are major.

All of them disappear after a period of sexual abstinence.

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3131 on: 26/01/2009 19:05:50 »
Girlwind thank you for highlighting that post and when you took your hormone test were they during POIS or out of it.

I could have not had all that blood drawn (fifteen tubes!) during a POIS episode. I felt dizzy afterwards, even on a good day.
I should also let you know that the doctor(s) I am seeing work with MANY HORMONAL problems and CFS as well. They're very
skilled at interpreting THE OPTIMAL LEVELS of what the various hormones should be for one's particular sex and age group.
OPTIMAL RANGES for hormones are very different from the STANDARD "NORMAL" ranges.  As I have read and heard,
over and over again from many patients with hormonal issues, many doctors have missed the mark with both diagnosis and
treatment of hormone problems (thyroid, adrenals, gonadal hormones, etc...) because they have been too entrenched in the
dogma of "normal ranges". Over all, the anti-aging doctors have a better track record with patients with hormonal complaints.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3132 on: 26/01/2009 20:41:19 »
GW, what did you think of the article I posted that suggests a relationship between prolactin and CFS?

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3133 on: 26/01/2009 21:02:00 »
GW, what did you think of the article I posted that suggests a relationship between prolactin and CFS?

I wasn't able to open it. Can you copy and paste it into email and send me a PM of it?

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3134 on: 26/01/2009 23:46:16 »
NE, day 1:

I am somewhat affected (with POIS) this time, as opposed to my previous NE episodes. What is different? I recently temporarily changed up my diet, giving up "goiterogenic" foods that I routinely eat: soy and broccoli. This could be relevant...but, soy is also high in choline....I just realized that fenugreek has choline in it.

I am wondering, has anyone tried choline as a supplement?

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Offline Guthrie

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3135 on: 27/01/2009 00:17:28 »
NE, day 1:

I am somewhat affected (with POIS) this time, as opposed to my previous NE episodes. What is different? I recently temporarily changed up my diet, giving up "goiterogenic" foods that I routinely eat: soy and broccoli. This could be relevant...but, soy is also high in choline....I just realized that fenugreek has choline in it.

I am wondering, has anyone tried choline as a supplement?

A couple of years ago, in my battle against POIS, I tried supplementing with soy lecithin, which contains choline as one of its maim components.  It didn't seem to help me very much.

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Offline underwater

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3136 on: 27/01/2009 03:48:42 »
deloun---
Thanks for your response. Tension, Nervousness (anxiety), Depression, Insomnia are also some of my main symptoms during POIS; different I think from the dominant symptoms of Extreme, Debilitating Fatigue and Major Inability to Focus/Concentrate. My anxiety disorder (when I have an active episode) creates the same symptoms as POIS, but it is never defined in a 3-4 day time frame as is POIS. Since my symptoms are the same, when I rid myself of "anxiety disorder" this time around (whenever the hell that is), I hope that my strategies can be applied to POIS. If my neurotransmitter focus fails, then I will have to refocus with more attention probably paid to hormones.  I'm very reticent to discuss specific experiments, because I don't think it's beneficial unless I can say with confidence that something helps me. In general, I'm experimenting with vitamins, minerals, amino acids, plant extracts, body hydration, exercise, breathing, and topical creams. 

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Offline Finally

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3137 on: 27/01/2009 04:46:16 »
NE, day 1:

I am somewhat affected (with POIS) this time, as opposed to my previous NE episodes. What is different? I recently temporarily changed up my diet, giving up "goiterogenic" foods that I routinely eat: soy and broccoli. This could be relevant...but, soy is also high in choline....I just realized that fenugreek has choline in it.

I am wondering, has anyone tried choline as a supplement?

I took Choline to improve brain function and memory.  I think it was choline Chloride. It helped mentally but It seemed to increase muscle stiffness similar to POIs for me,  So I stopped.

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Offline mister_z

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3138 on: 27/01/2009 10:49:23 »
3rd: Hcg+Hmg+Toco-8 plus increase of protein and less carbs, more red meat, fish and lots of cruciferous vegetables ie broccoli (Successful)

at the risk of sounding ignorant what are Hcg, Hmg, and Toco 8?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3139 on: 27/01/2009 15:38:55 »
I wasn't able to open it. Can you copy and paste it into email and send me a PM of it?

Girlwind, the prolactin article link required simple registration, so rather than PM, I'm posting a new article link. Other CFS sufferers lurking here may benefit!

Girlwind, you said that you haven't tested for prolactin, but maybe it could help you?

This new article states, similarly to the one below, "We found that CFS subjects show a higher prolactin response than controls..."
http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/iop/prt/cfs.htm

my original post to you (first article):
PROLACTIN AND CFS

Girlwind and other CFS-affected individuals here: this seemed like an intriguing link. It requires only simple registration, but here is the Google description:

"Baseline prolactin levels were the same in all three groups, but rose much faster and higher in the patients with CFS than in the other two groups after ..."
http://general-medicine.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/1992/512/6

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3140 on: 27/01/2009 15:57:09 »

message from pois sufferer who fixed problem sounds eerily similar to Demografx situation


CCconfucius, it would help if "anonymous sufferer" would come forward and help the forum. I think some of us know who he is, and my review of an earlier post shows that the testosterone he used initially was indeed the wrong one! I confirmed that with my endocrinologist.

As a first "proven POIS cure" it would be nice to "give back to the community" by offering more interaction with us so we can learn more, i.e., how his case differs, how his case is similar to the rest of us.


B_Jim makes very good points below which would be very helpful if he could address it to us directly. Emphasis mine:


Congratulations to anonymous sufferer. I'm happy when some of us improve his condition.

But i'm worried because there are so many meds in this treatment.

Don't forget :

- A bloodtest must prove the deficiency is real.

- [medical professional cooperation] Only serious doctor take the decision to use these supplements.


- Adrenals should be cured before thryoid.

- Young Pois sufferers (under 30 years old) really should try natural therapy before hormones therapy. (diet ) . Young sufferers have a chance to self-restore their bodies. Sometime the organ is not ill but only tired by a bad lifestyle (diet, stress,...) Even if Pois may justify Dhea supplmenetation it shouldn't be taken under 35 years old.

- Hormones therapy side-effect :

When you use hormones the organ becomes "lazy" and stop to make his job. Remember the experience i posted with corticoids spray for allergic rhinitis. I prefer Agjchs approach  : he takes only 12mg Dhea after orgasm. Not every day.
But of course, some of us have a severe condition and Pois appears as a consequence of this.


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3141 on: 27/01/2009 16:03:16 »


3rd: Hcg+Hmg+Toco-8 plus increase of protein and less carbs, more red meat, fish and lots of cruciferous vegetables ie broccoli (Successful)


at the risk of sounding ignorant what are Hcg, Hmg, and Toco 8?


mister_z, not ignorant at all! This is another reason it would be  nice for CCconfucius' "anonymous sufferer" to come forward.

I certainly would like to ask him, too! All I could find on hcg is, "Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) is a glycoprotein hormone produced in pregnancy that is made by the embryo soon after conception..."

???
« Last Edit: 27/01/2009 16:17:54 by demografx »

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Offline mister_z

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3142 on: 27/01/2009 16:24:42 »
would toco-8 be tocopherol aka vitamin E ?

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3143 on: 27/01/2009 16:27:41 »
NE, day 1:

I am somewhat affected (with POIS) this time, as opposed to my previous NE episodes. What is different? I recently temporarily changed up my diet, giving up "goiterogenic" foods that I routinely eat: soy and broccoli. This could be relevant...but, soy is also high in choline....I just realized that fenugreek has choline in it.

I am wondering, has anyone tried choline as a supplement?

I haven't tried it as a supplement myself, but I've noticed that sometimes eating eggs seem to help a bit feeling a little bit better or recovering a little bit faster. Eggs contain choline too.

Several months ago I requested many laboratory blood and urine tests and went to an orthomolecular doctor and one of the things she diagnosed is that I have a poor methylation. Choline plays a vital role in methylation.

So maybe a poor methylation plays a role in our POIS?

Methylation is needed for many important processes in the body, including the synthesis of neurotransmitters.

Choline metabolism:


Methylation cycle:


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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3144 on: 27/01/2009 16:31:31 »
deloun---
Thanks for your response. Tension, Nervousness (anxiety), Depression, Insomnia are also some of my main symptoms during POIS; different I think from the dominant symptoms of Extreme, Debilitating Fatigue and Major Inability to Focus/Concentrate. My anxiety disorder (when I have an active episode) creates the same symptoms as POIS, but it is never defined in a 3-4 day time frame as is POIS. Since my symptoms are the same, when I rid myself of "anxiety disorder" this time around (whenever the hell that is), I hope that my strategies can be applied to POIS. If my neurotransmitter focus fails, then I will have to refocus with more attention probably paid to hormones.  I'm very reticent to discuss specific experiments, because I don't think it's beneficial unless I can say with confidence that something helps me. In general, I'm experimenting with vitamins, minerals, amino acids, plant extracts, body hydration, exercise, breathing, and topical creams. 

Sceletium Tortuosum is known to help with tension, anxiety and depression and I've noticed myself that it is effective for these symptoms, maybe it's worth a try for you.

Edit: fixed typo
« Last Edit: 27/01/2009 17:26:12 by deloun »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3145 on: 27/01/2009 16:35:50 »
TESTOSTERONE

I don't know if these patches will cure my POIS, but I certainly feel better daily!

It stands to reason that I would feel better since my free testosterone was tested as low.

Standard urology and GP (General Practitioner) testing showed my testosterone levels to be normal, so thanks again Girlwind, B_Jim and Counterpoints for your suggestions on more extensive testing!

The T-patches produce a steadier, more natural flow compared to the erratic jumps that depotestoerone produce (the latter prescribed previously - mine was cypionate testosterone).

This is tricky stuff, everybody! So please don't self-medicate!

Find a healthcare professional you are comfortable with, then make him/her your partner: lady and gentlemen, we are treading on brand new ground here!
« Last Edit: 27/01/2009 17:10:40 by demografx »

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Offline deloun

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3146 on: 27/01/2009 16:42:54 »
Other things that I've noticed that have helped reducing the POIS symptoms are taking a shower while alternating with very hot and very cold water and going to the sauna, including cooling down with each round in a cold water bath or cold shower.

Are there others that have noticed that this has helped a bit with their symptoms?

Taking the shower with alternating hot and cold water can easily be tried at home, maybe it's worth a try and I would be curious if others notice a positive effect too. So if you decide to try it out, would you be so kind to let it know? Maybe it can tell something useful about POIS. One of the things that seem to occur as a consequence of the hot and cold stress to the body are the increase of blood flow and energy to organs and the increase of dopamine and noradrenaline available in the brain.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3147 on: 27/01/2009 16:43:02 »

would toco-8 be tocopherol aka vitamin E ?


mister_z, your guess is as good as mine! Unless "anonymous sufferer" comes forward we won't know. But don't worry, mister_z, this is the first time in 2 years since the forum started that this type of anonymous posting has occurred.
 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3148 on: 27/01/2009 16:55:22 »


               CAUTION!

Please be careful. Someone has been trying to sell
me on a "POIS cure" and also on my seeing a
particular doctor/healthcare practitioner via
Private Message.

At this forum, we encourage you to work with
healthcare practitioners of your own choosing.
And "POIS cures" are very, very individual matters
at this stage of our history. Thank you all.
« Last Edit: 27/01/2009 17:00:10 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #3149 on: 27/01/2009 17:02:52 »
Other things that I've noticed that have helped reducing the POIS symptoms are taking a shower while alternating with very hot and very cold water and going to the sauna, including cooling down with each round in a cold water bath or cold shower.

Are there others that have noticed that this has helped a bit with their symptoms?

Taking the shower with alternating hot and cold water can easily be tried at home, maybe it's worth a try and I would be curious if others notice a positive effect too. So if you decide to try it out, would you be so kind to let it know? Maybe it can tell something useful about POIS. One of the things that seem to occur as a consequence of the hot and cold stress to the body are the increase of blood flow and energy to organs and the increase of dopamine and noradrenaline available in the brain.

Very interesting, deloun. Thank you!
« Last Edit: 27/01/2009 17:04:58 by demografx »