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I often wondered whether Demografx and I were approaching the same solution from different directions. The articles below hint strongly that Viagra can have the effect of increasing oxytocin production during orgasm:http://www.reuniting.info/science/viagra_and_oxytocinhttp://www.news-medical.net/?id=29102Now I know Viagra and Levitra aren't identical, but their effects are sufficiently alike that you have to wonder whether Levitra might not also aid in increasing oxytocin production?I initially started taking Fenugreek to try to boost my oxytocin levels - could we both be achieving the same effect using different methods?
Have been traveling, so catching up now on lots of interesting posts. Mostly wanted to react to John23's comments. My voice gets deeper too after O (for a day or two). Also, the list of symptoms related to hypogonadism comes very close to my key symptoms, except that I definitely do not suffer from "small gonads". All this points to a very puzzling dynamics in the link between testosterone and POIS.
Yes, hurray, I've been thinking that way for some time, even posted briefly about Levitra stimulating oxytocin. So I really appreciate hearing that from you as well.Viagra might be the same. I'm just afraid to try it, because I tried Cialis and it was a disaster. But Cialis I think works differently to produce that very-long lasting effect (36 hours?).But in my case, I think testosterone - in combination with Levitra - plays a critical part of my POIS cure. When testosterone was out of my system, Levitra worked very poorly alone. Sometimes, some drugs simply stop working, but my intuiition says it was the combination that was critical.
Quote from: demografx on 24/02/2009 22:07:18Yes, hurray, I've been thinking that way for some time, even posted briefly about Levitra stimulating oxytocin. So I really appreciate hearing that from you as well.Viagra might be the same. I'm just afraid to try it, because I tried Cialis and it was a disaster. But Cialis I think works differently to produce that very-long lasting effect (36 hours?).But in my case, I think testosterone - in combination with Levitra - plays a critical part of my POIS cure. When testosterone was out of my system, Levitra worked very poorly alone. Sometimes, some drugs simply stop working, but my intuiition says it was the combination that was critical.I think all 3 drugs are supposed to be PDE5 inhibitors, but only Cialis has the long-lasting effects - so it would seem likely that V+L were the most closely linked.Your success with testosterone and Levitra sounds like a real breakthough! I wonder whether this approach would work with some of the other POIS sufferers on the board (strict medical supervision permitting)?
Getting the right medical expertise seems to be the key to nailing POIS - hope it continues to work for you Demo
One other thing - when I am suffering from POIS, it physically feels as if my frontal lobe of my brain has almost closed down, and what conscious thoughts I am having are coming from the sides of my brain, which apparently are the temporal lobes.Wikipedia says:Damage to the frontal lobes can lead to a variety of results:Mental flexibility and spontaneity are impaired, but IQ is not reduced. Talking may increase or decrease dramatically. Perceptions regarding risk taking and rule abiding are impaired. Socialization can diminish or increase. Orbital frontal lobe damage can result in peculiar sexual habits. Dorsolateral frontal lobe damage reduces sexual interest. Creativity is diminished as well as problem solving skills. Distraction occurs more frequentlySome of these certainly ring true from my experience of POIS. If I had to guess which area of the brain was most affected by POIS, I would definitely pick the frontal lobes. Plus, the frontal lobes is where most of the dopamine lives, which is possibly one of the things you are interested in measuring.
Regarding my Endo - she shut me down yesterday and said that she will no longer test for POIS. I could feel this coming so no hard blow there. Instead I have an appt this afternoon with another doctor. Go go persistance.
So I bring the Netherland study and newpaper article, and give them to the [new] doctor. As he's reviewing the literature I'm rambling off all the symptoms, durations, and my speculations of causes - I suggest a 24hr urine cortisol test. When he's done reading, he stares at the ground for like a minute (complete siliance), then he looks at the ceiling same amount of time, then all he say is 'hmmm' - I kid you not.After I feel a bit awkward and question why I'm there, he says 'well I've never heard of this, and you should see an endocrinologist, and if I give one test that will never end, and it might be psychological, and these doctors from the studies aren't from the US'. So I interrupted him and began talking so much he couldn't get another word in...it was quite rude. BUT it worked! I got the paper work for the test!Bold and italicized/underlined emphasis mine - demo
That [cognitive symptoms] sounds a lot like me, I know I am smart, it's just that I can't perform that well. I think when I get these headaches my frontal lobe is trying to come back from its current state. This explains ADD
Here's my next steps:- wait 5 days for the PS suppliment to leave my system- ejaculate- wait 1 day till symptoms are peak- take the 24hr urine cortisol testAny suggestions or comments on these steps (or the doctor ?
I agree the tests should be made when you feel the worst...
CCconfucius, at the lab I got my test, the range for free testosterone was 24-95 pmol/L. You may want to consult this:http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/intguide/EndoMetab/Gen_Misc/Testosterone/Table%201.pdfThe range will depend on the type of test you took. I suggest you phone the lab you took the test at.
What is the latest news about fenugreek or relora? Anyone?
This time I realize a common reaction to orgasm which I'm not sure I have mentioned before, deepening of my voice.
Quote from: Counterpoints on 26/02/2009 07:15:00CCconfucius, at the lab I got my test, the range for free testosterone was 24-95 pmol/L. You may want to consult this:http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/intguide/EndoMetab/Gen_Misc/Testosterone/Table%201.pdfThe range will depend on the type of test you took. I suggest you phone the lab you took the test at.Thanks, Counterpoints, that was useful for me as well!
Quote from: demografx on 19/02/2009 17:33:59What is the latest news about fenugreek or relora? Anyone?Relora seems to work very well for me. Been taking it for ~3 months now, at the same time as abstaining - allowing myself to recover and gain energy.The weekend was my first orgasm in that time and had ~20% POIS systems.This of course could be down to a number of things. However, I only took 1 capsule yesterday and when I woke up this morning, it felt like the POIS volume had been turned up. A couple more capsules and it's back under control.I can still feel it's there but it's a shadow of it's former self.
Looking at both options giving it looks like my free testerone is below what the normal range. But how will i explain that to doctor.
I've done lots of research, like everyone else, on hormones but haven't posted many links to research. The below link is the most comprehensive article I've found on cortisol and covers so much including suppliments, tests, foods, sex, other hormone interactions and more.http://www.nutrition4health.org/nohanews/NNSp05Harding.htm
TESTOSTERONEHey everyone. I'm aware that my contributions to this site are always simplistic, however it has occured to me that one of the greatest problems when delaing with POIS is the obvious lack of testosterone. A lack of testosterone can inflict many symptoms which all but match those of POIS.One of the quickest ways to increase testosterone is to consume a lot of protein and amino acids.Has anyone thought of consuming a large protein shake or something high in protein as a POIS cure?
OXYTOCINWe've discussed the possibility of oxytocin depletion playing a role in POIS. New nasal spray being tested might be a partial POIS treatment?http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7412438.stm
Hey demografx,That's brilliant about your POIS cure.Where did you get Levitra and T-patches from? Im curious as i may try that combination to cure my POIS, since it seems to have brought you great success. Ambient
Did you ever experiment with protein as a treatment for your POIS?
P.SDo you think it's possible that my POIS could be significantly alleviated by taking a lot more protein?Obviously, im not saying its a 100% cure, but even a 55-60% or something?
acording to website testosterone jumps 50% after avoiding ejaculation for a week and then quickly drops back down to normal the next day. i wonder if this is how body gets out of Pois for some suffers.
Demo, obviously there is something with testosterone. Your experience is highly helpful and encouraging. I can't understand why some other pois sufferers don't have this deficiency shown in blood tests.
Do you think testosterone alone, without Levitra, can cure pois ?