[Ambient123]

Again, I am pleased that after so many years you have found your successful treatment. I assume that after your mild symptoms have faded, you feel clear-headed, motivated, and energetic?

I dream of that day, and im sure it will come sooner or later.

For a while, i myself have suspected Testosterone to be the predominant player in my POIS, due, for example, to my symptoms, which are very consistent with Low Testosterone

Low Testosterone Symptoms (http://www.mens-hormonal-health.com/symptoms-of-low-testosterone.html):

Physical

- Fatigue.
- Reduced muscle mass.
- Reduced strength.
- Osteoporosis.
- Higher incidence of sudden death from heart attack.
- High cholesterol (high LDL/low HDL).
- Impotence.
- Low libido.
- Long refractory period (time it takes to have sex again).
- Low sperm count.
- Enlarged breasts (gyno/gynecomastia).

Mental

- Brain fog (inability to concentrate).
- Poor memory.

Emotional

- Depression.
- Mood swings.
- Irritability.
- Lack of motivation.

My main symptoms, at their peak, are:

- Depression
- Wild mood swings
- Fatigue
- Very low motivation
- Very irritable (wanting arguments)
- Strong brain fog (brain seems to be engulfed in thick haze)
- Poor memory
- Terrible attention and concentration span
- Poor strength
- Low Libido

Thus, as well as Dopamine, i feel that Testosterone is playing a part in my POIS symptoms. I intend to set up an appointment with a new doctor (my previous doctor failed to understand it as a physical condition) and enquire about getting my Total and Free Testosterone tested. Would you recommend this, Demografx?

[demografx]

Again, I am pleased that after so many years you have found your successful treatment. I assume that after your mild symptoms have faded, you feel clear-headed, motivated, and energetic?

Yes, exactly right: clear-headed, motivated and energetic. Perfect description.

I dream of that [POIS-free] day, and I'm sure it will come sooner or later.

That was the hardest part, maintaining faith and confidence. I'm greatly pleased with your statement of confidence.

Would you recommend this, Demografx? [Total and Free Testosterone testing].

Absolutely! I recommend that to everyone who suspects a testosterone deficiency. Also, test for bioavailable testosterone, LH, SHGB, and FSH. It's standard.

Back in 2002, I contacted a Czech sex therapist, whom I was referred to after I stumped experts here in the U.S. about POIS. His immediate reaction was "Testosterone!". It's taken me 7 years to finally understand that he was right. But I had to eventually modify my early success by finding a good endocrinologist, going from injection to T-patches, and adding Levitra. My biggest mistake was giving up on testosterone, but I now see why I did. Keep in mind, that to cure POIS, your role as a "patient" has to be upgraded to partner, maybe leader. You know more about POIS than most MD's.

[Ambient123]

Demografx, thanks very much for your guidance. It certainly is frustrating that MD's, who are certainly very clever, are unable to appreciate a concept such as POIS. I intend to arrange for a Testosterone test.

 I had one more thought:

Basically for years, i had consumed endless amounts of caffeine and sugar through such foods and drinks as Chocolate, Tea, Biscuits etc. If i am being fully honest, i could consume an entire ten-pack of Mars Bars in one sitting. That is how extreme it was at one stage. As you can imagine, this wreaked havoc on my body and mind.

I am aware that over-stimulation from such substances causes "Adrenal Exhaustion", which depletes hormones such as Testosterone.

Now since My Over-stimulation was rather extreme and long-term, could it be possible that my adrenals are still "exhausted" as it were, in spite of the fact that i have long since given up sugar and caffeine?

Basically, what i am asking is: Does adrenal exhaustion go away after sugar and caffeine are stopped, or are the adrenals permanently low until treatment is issued?

The reason I feel this is because my POIS symptoms are very similar to those i experienced during over-stimulation, such as:

Depression
Fatigue
Poor Attention span
Inability to concentrate
Brain fog
Terrible memory
No motivation
etc...

(PS. I am asking this because my POIS may stem from low adrenal funtion due to long-term over-stimulation. And since hormones such as Testosterone are implicated in orgasm, i am wondering if my orgasms are aggrevating my adrenal problems)

Thanks

Hope to hear from you soon

Ambient

[Ambient123]

Another quick theory:

Since Adrena exhaustion is characterised by low cortisol, then since orgasms further reduce cortisol levels, then it could be argued that Adrenal Exhaustion is aggravated by orgasm

[demografx]

Demografx, thanks very much for your guidance. It certainly is frustrating that MD's, who are certainly very clever, are unable to appreciate a concept such as POIS. I intend to arrange for a Testosterone test.

Most MD's are clueless about us because POIS is rare and hardly ever studied (an extreme understatement! []).

And as B_Jim points out, the science of orgasm is in its infancy.

I'm delighted that you are testing your T-levels!

I am aware that over-stimulation from such substances [caffeine/sugar] causes "Adrenal Exhaustion", which depletes hormones such as Testosterone.

The concept of "adrenal fatigue" is controversial. Others here may subscribe to the theory, but I tend to pay much more attention to the "knowns". That has worked for me so far. Interesting article on the controversy:
http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2008/06/what-is-adrenal-fatigue.html

Has caffeine/sugar contributed to my T-depletion? Maybe. Has excessive sex in early years contributed to POIS? Maybe. Food/beverage/substance overindulgence? Maybe.

But now, it's 2009, and my T-level without treatment is low - for whatever reason -  and by treating it (and ED), POIS is finally resolved, after a "murderous" effect on my life. Caffeine and sugar continue to affect me in many ways so I have cut back. That's as far as I wish to go in thinking about it. Maybe I'm just too impatient?

But others have a completely different viewpoint about adrenal fatigue, and also about my "pragmatic-only" approach and I respect that.

Thanks, Ambient, for the questions, I appreciate them.

[Ambient123]

Certainly, Demografx, i understand differing viewpoints, and am willing to accept other possibilities.

It just seems rather too coincidental that my POIS symptoms mirror those of adrenal exhaustion (AE). I suppose that once i am tested for my T levels, that will be a good indicator.

In my case, with all the caffeine i used to consume, it seems to me that the adrenal theory makes the most sense as far as my POIS is concerned.

I noticed that some people on here had significant POIS success with DHEA. I wonder if they too may have suffered from adrenal problems, and the DHEA acted as adrenal support. It is an interesting thought, and one which i may pursue.

Indeed, Testosterone is also implicated in AE, since it is an adrenal hormone, and it may be simply a case of having to top up the T levels to a normal level, and since T levels drop after orgasm, it may be that my already low Testosterone is aggravated.

Apologies for boring you all with this theory, but i am eager to pursue it.

One thing i intend to try is DHEA, though in the UK, it is not sold as supplements (or at least not to my knowledge)

Do you have advice as to where i could purchase some?

 

[demografx]

Ambient, forum posts about DHEA:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=+DHEA+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com

After you click on a link you're interested in, you need to use Ctrl + F and type keyword(s) to find the specific post you're looking for.

[Ambient123]

Thanks Demografx, i will looke through these carefully.

Do you know where i could purchase DHEA? Because as i said, the UK does not sell it as a supplement (so far as im aware)

Thanks again

Ambient

[rock27]

My MD was thinking about testosterone shortage as well. And then he also sent me for tests on adrenals, thyroid. I don't know the truth about the human body either, Ambient. The only advice I can give is to find a good doc and get tested! Anyway, I am glad I got tested this week. Did the test in-pois feeling hellish. Results in less than 2 months. Will report back here.

[Ambient123]

Rock27,

Glad to hear you got tested and all the best for your results with respect to your POIS.

Do i misunderstand, or did you say that you will have to wait for two months to receive your test results?

[martin88]

Did the test in-pois feeling hellish.

Not something I'd like to do too often!

Ambient, me too I was consuming too much junk (sugar,chocolate, ..) when I was young. I think it can be one of the causes.

[Ambient123]

Yes indeed Martin, i am now running with the Adrenal Exhaustion theory.

The biggest clue for me is the complete similarity between my POIS symptoms and those of Over-stimulation and the rebound after the caffeine wears off.

The fact is, all signs point to it, and i intend to follow it up.

May i ask you to share your experiences of Sugar and Caffeine excess? They may prove very helpful to me

Also, have you tested for Adrenal Insufficiency?

[demografx]

Ambient, I thought you might find a posted purchase source by a forum member for DHEA in that list of links.

[Ambient123]

Oh, thanks Demografx.

The only thing im concerned about (and i know i'll sound pessimistic) is that i'll spend money on DHEA supplements, and they'll be fakes

I hear some online supplement sites do this.

Are you aware of any good sites i could try?

[demografx]

Ambient, I'm more pessimistic than you. I don't trust ANY of them []

But here's one site that I trust on DHEA:
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drugs/altmed/altmed-mono.aspx?contentFileName=ame0061.xml&contentName=DHEA&contentId=224

Also, Ambient, if you are taking any prescription medicine, I would strongly urge that you ask your pharmacist to look at the interaction effect between DHEA and your other medicines.

[demografx]

              
             CONGRATS TO US ALL!

 Our POIS thread has now exceeded 250,000 page views!


   That means many more POIS sufferers/visitors/lurkers
          and hopefully, researchers and promoters

[demografx]

My MD was thinking about testosterone shortage as well. And then he also sent me for tests on adrenals, thyroid. I don't know the truth about the human body either, Ambient. The only advice I can give is to find a good doc and get tested! Anyway, I am glad I got tested this week. Did the test in-pois feeling hellish. Results in less than 2 months. Will report back here.

Great to hear it's done! In-POIS testing? Really must have been difficult! 2 months for results??? Unheard of! We all look forward to your reporting, Rock!!

[Ambient123]

Another addition to my Adrenal Theory:

Apologies for boring you all with this addition to the Adrenal theory, but i thought it might be a valid point.

Because adrenal exhaustion is essentially when the Adrenal Glands are unable to produce enough of certain hormones, I can see how orgasms could be implicated in this theory.

Consider all of the hormones which are secreted during an orgasm, such as DHEA, which is secreted by the Adrenal glands. If one suffers from Adrenal Exhaustion, and is therefore unable to secrete these vital hormones during an orgasm, then it could be argued that an orgasm would aggravate the condition. I think that DHEA may be more important in this theory than others, since it is used to make Testosterone and other vital hormones. Therefore, after orgasm, without the secretion of DHEA to produce T later on, one's body remains depleted of T after orgasm, bringing with it the symptoms of POIS.

Just a thought, anyway thanks for reading this, and please deliver your thoughts.

Thanks again

Ambient

[martin88]

Yes indeed Martin, i am now running with the Adrenal Exhaustion theory.

The biggest clue for me is the complete similarity between my POIS symptoms and those of Over-stimulation and the rebound after the caffeine wears off.

The fact is, all signs point to it, and i intend to follow it up.

May i ask you to share your experiences of Sugar and Caffeine excess? They may prove very helpful to me

Also, have you tested for Adrenal Insufficiency?

Before the first orgasm, sugar was probably causing a slight difficulty to focus and very mild ocd. After the first orgasm it was more fatigue and depression.
If you answer Counterpoints's form at http://pois.olympe-network.com you'll be able to see some information about tests and caffeine. It seems that nobody here has done a "real" test(according to some MDs) for adrenal insufficiency (ACTH stimulation).

[demografx]

Ambient, you just reminded me that I also tested DHEA-S in my last set of tests to confirm my testosterone levels. After reading your posts, I realized that I should include that in my recommendations to others interested in testosterone testing.