[Counterpoints]

pyropeach, I'm wondering if the pituitary adenoma is causing this problem.  Everyone here who gets their pituitary scanned seems to find something abnormal.  If more people had pituitary scans, and verified a (micro)-adenoma, I think we could be quite sure that this is the cause of POIS.  If some of you are considering various scans with a physician, it might be worthwhile considering a pituitary MRI (with contrast), based on the results we have been seeing so far in this forum, and the fact that the pituitary largely regulates sexual function. (The one other scan I might consider is an abdomen MRI, to look at the adrenals).

My endocrinologist thinks there is a 50% chance I have cyclical Cushings, which would probably be caused by the adenoma.  Unfortunately this means months of testing before we can be sure.  With cyclical Cushings, you can get normal test results.  You have to catch cortisol when it is high, and then quickly follow up with more tests.

I think this basically means there is a 50% chance my POIS is caused by this adenoma.

[Counterpoints]

I've also tried Relora, in high doses (1000 mg/day) and smaller doses.  It didn't have enough of an effect for me to even know whether it was making a difference.  PS was the same.

Pyropeach, if the range for free T is 9-30, and yours is 16.4, I don't think your free T is "sky soaring"; it seems mid-range.  It's high enough that it would be hard to justify using testosterone, but it's not abnormally high.

[rock27]

POIS puzzle..

I posted my too low Testosterone on day 3. But now I get a result of the first morning after release, with Testosterone so high it is out-of-range. Also cortisol elevated, rest of the day cortisol normal. However this was a saliva-test so don't know if doc will rely on it. It does make sense however, as the first day I feel strange, but usually POIS doesn't really hit me till afternoon. It seems now my pois-case is overproduction of testosteron and cortisol, and then so fatigued it can't produce enough of testosterone anymore. Tomorrow I'll be back testing so I'll be fully prepared for doc's visit. I support all scans.

[Counterpoints]

POIS puzzle..

I posted my too low Testosterone on day 3. But now I get a result of the first morning after release, with Testosterone so high it is out-of-range. Also cortisol elevated, rest of the day cortisol normal. However this was a saliva-test so don't know if doc will rely on it. It does make sense however, as the first day I feel strange, but usually POIS doesn't really hit me till afternoon. It seems now my pois-case is overproduction of testosteron and cortisol, and then so fatigued it can't produce enough of testosterone anymore. Tomorrow I'll be back testing so I'll be fully prepared for doc's visit. I support all scans.

Very interesting rock.  I just finished talking to a very prominent neuroscientist (who is a physician and professor), who said it was IMPERATIVE that I get my hormone levels checked when normal, just before orgasm, and just after orgasm.  He said I would probably have to go to a hospital to do this.  He also seemed to think this was a very serious problem, and should be taken seriously.... he said I needed to find a physician who would help me get these hormone tests.  He said that orgasm causes immense activations and de-activations in the brain that could cause hormone fluctuations.  He also thought that my symptoms probably set in within seconds of ejaculation.  He said that the brain-fog and anxiety could be caused by a markedly decreased level of alertness, brought on by de-activation following orgasm.

Can you give readings on how elevated your testosterone and cortisol are, immediately following orgasm?

[rock27]

Counterpoints,

testosterone 197  pg/ml (44-148)
cortisol 8 am: 13.1 ng/ml (3.7-9.5)
 
I took the test at 8 o'clock , about 9 hours after release. I never really sleep after orgasm, I now know why.

I don't know (if possible) how to compare this saliva value to blood value I mentioned earlier. I'll be in for full blood testing in the hospital tomorrow, to validate the saliva result and to do the before and after release tests (I think an hour later will do) and some hours later. I have to do this to fill in the puzzle.

[demografx]

POIS DIARY

 If I take a long hot shower I get a very flushed feeling and mouth ulcers for the day's remainder. So I try to avoid long hot ones. Sunday was an exception and so I hot-shower-indulged. Coincidentally it was also Day Zero. But the flushed feeling lasted till Tuesday pm! I haven't had prolonged hot showers in a long, long time.  Was the prolonged flushing from testosterone? I hate this because it makes me wonder if my POIS cure is off this time around. At least there were no mouth ulcers. 

Apart from the above, I can happily confirm that in the last 8x activity, POIS symptoms did not show beyond Day Zero, and were very tolerable even then. Frequency and satisfaction increased tremendously over pre-treatment.

[demografx]

Counterpoints, I'm sorry to hear about the complexity of your required testing!

[demografx]

Rocky, best wishes with your new test. It seems that you're progressing in depth!

[demografx]

Pyro, I wish you the best in finding a permanent treatment!

[demografx]

Counterpoints, I dug deeper into old forum posts to see if I could understand better what happened with Levitra vs. testosterone.  I couldn't find anything that would better explain my last post reply to you. My early testosterone injections, every 2 weeks, must have laid a foundation of POIS cure which I erroneously attributed to Levitra, and later, when I quit injections, a foundation of POIS-improvement because T was still in my system. Again, I attributed the improvement erroneously to Levitra. Even at the very end, prior to T-patch treatment, I was somewhat improved over my 30 year POIS history, presumably because of the extended T-injections. Further recent testing without Levitra only seemed to confirm this.

Levitra has a nitric oxide action which I think plays a role  in orgasm,  so if you can think of something that is missing from my reasoning above, I will gladly adjust my thinking to give Levitra some more credit.

[hurray]

I seem to remember several posts far back in the thread that theorised that the quality of orgasm affected the severity of POIS symptoms. One poster I think was in a new relationship, and being madly in love reduced his symptoms greatly.

A more recent theory was that Levitra helped the brain generate oxytocin, and the oxytocin significantly lessened the symptoms of POIS

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070823161930.htm

What I am getting at is that the whole "quality of orgasm/being in love" situation would also involve lots of naturally produced oxytocin, and so could have an effect similar to what you experienced with Levitra (less POIS).

Has something changed in your life Demo that would increase either your "in love" status, or just the general quality of your orgasms? Of course I am not asking for an answer to that very personal question, but could this be a possibility?

If your natural stock of oxytocin is temporarily elevated, the Levitra may have become temporarily less important to you.

[demografx]

Hurray, thanks! I am just amazed at the slow building of feeling powerful with T-therapy. Nothing has changed as you would suggest with oxytocin and love life. Recently celebrated 30+ year marriage. I feel a vitality that I haven't felt in decades.

[hurray]

Glad it's working so well for you!

Ah well, just a theory! The only other thing that occurred to me was that Levitra may have had a semi-permanent effect on you which means that you do not need to take it as much, or at all, to achieve the benefits that you previously felt from it.

The link below suggests that Viagra (chemically similar to Levitra) can produce an effect that carries on for 6 months or more after treatment is stopped:

http://www.webmd.com/erectile-dysfunction/news/20040513/nightly-viagra-may-restore-normal-erections

Finally, clutching at straws, is it possible that you've greatly increased the consumption of Arginine in your diet? As it is the precursor of Nitric Acid in the human body, lots of extra NO could make Levitra's role in your recovery redundant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arginine

[Ambient123]

Hey guys

Was just wondering if a theory regarding a deficiency of serotonin had ever been discussed on this forum as a cause of POIS?

I noticed that one or more people had improvements in POIS with SSRIs

Thanks

Ambient

[demografx]

Hurray, very interesting report about the 6-month continuing effect of Viagra! Yes, Viagra is similar, my GP just thought that Levitra has a safer side-effect profile.

My 2-year POIS treatment history is now somewhat of an enigma in explaining the role of Levitra.

The last thing in the world that I want to do is to unintentionally mislead anyone as to what works for me and why. But 100% accurate reporting has gotten tricky! Most of us still rely on self-reported and subjective research. Which opens us up to more error than, say, a clinical trial study with scientific measurement.

Right now I have great hopes that testosterone can help many POIS sufferers who can benefit by boosting themselves into mid-range testosterone levels. With physician supervision. With increasing acceptance of testing, remedies like Relora being tested with positive results, and many other positive reports here, I think we're seeing light at the end of the tunnel for most POIS sufferers. None of this was true when this forum started just 2 years ago.

[rock27]

Testing day
Happened according to plan. Did the before and after release tests. At the hospital they were very surprised about my re-testing but that's ok. Didn't care to explain.

This time I watched my initital sensations closely. After release I felt lots of things happening in my body, particularly left kidney/adrenals area was pumping and pumping. Heartbeat @ 120 up from 60-70. Also head felt strange. Very strong sensations first 20 minutes.

I'll take a long run now to get rid of my supposedly excess cortisol / testosterone. I do have symptoms of this excess, so I guess it's true. I notice I actually have lots and lots of energy once I get moving. It's just the mind that doesn't feel like doing much. Tomorrow weightlifting to build up my testosterone. I read some i-articles on the effects of running and weightlifting on testosterone and cortisol, don't know if all the effects are true but I'm happy to try it

Next week I'll hopefully have the test results. So I'll be fully prepared for doc's visit.

[demografx]

Rocky, that is terrific. Many thanks for sharing the experience!

[underwater]

I'm still digesting my Claritin/Histamine experiment of nearly 3 weeks ago. My early POIS symptoms are clearly first felt in my skin. I have to assume that the histamine receptors in my skin were interfered with. The mild depression I felt for a few days I attribute to Claritin. Claritin is not a cure for POIS, but it may show in some of us that histamines play a role in POIS. If so, it seems logical that any blunting of POIS triggers of any kind will be desireable. I think that careful observation of very early signs of any physical discomfort or subtle change post "O" will be helpful in providing clues as to how this thing (POIS) unfolds in each of us and how it can be effectively neutralized. A little good news in our fight against POIS goes a long way. I did not mention in regards to my Claritin experiment that I had also added the following to my supplements a few days before that experiment: Iron 25mg--Manganese 50mg--Zinc 30mg--B6 100mg (I also kicked up my Calcium intake)--These could have played a part along with my conscious effort to eat a lot of blueberries and cherries.

[underwater]

Demo--
I definitely think there is light at the end of the tunnel. This forum has shown the individuality and complexity of POIS. There are ways to diminish POIS, and this forum gets a hell of a lot of credit!! It truly is amazing what collective effort can do. However, plenty of work remains. Even if there are chemical therapies that are effective, it probably still takes a long time to re-introduce the nervous system to a normal, healthy post orgasmic experience. And because something may appear to be helpful, something else may be better and safer yet.

[mister_z]

hi, i havent posted here in a while and hmm, i have a question relating to libido in POIS;
i have recently done 2 (in a row to confirm) free testosterone tests (prescribed by GP) that showed that i am well below the normal range (i am 29).
yet i would consider myself a very high libido person; actually my libido seems to come in phases and well as, i suppose, my POIS related tiredness.
of course having bouts of high libido isn't going to help me with POIS.
how could that be explained? i have always thought that low testosterone = low libido ? am i burning myself out hormonally ?

on another note, possibly unrelated: i have been experimenting with 5HTP recently (i think it is illegal without prescription in france, but dont tell anyone... ) and it doesnt solve POIS i think but it does help my general anxiety and helps me have better sleep on the whole; which means i tend to be less achy, shivery in mornings (as i always am now); i am also trying glutamine and NAC to boost my immune function; thats following recurrent problems with staph aureus...

speaking of which, has anyone here done some bacterial, viral or fungal testing since the symptoms (flulike, fatigue, shivers, weakness etc) fit infectious symptoms as well