[EDS]

Hello everyone!

Great job on getting this malady noticed and contacting organizations that may be able to help us!!

As promised, I am reporting back on the tests I had run with ZRT Labs. I selected the “Comprehensive Male Profile II” that includes saliva and blood spot testing.

I tested Cortisol in the following manner:
15 minutes before “O” at 10:00 pm –       result = normal @ 0.4 (range 0.4 – 1.0)
15 minutes after at 10:45pm –          result = low @ 0.2 (range 1.2 – 3.0)
The next morning - 9 hours after at 7:00 am –    result = low @ 3.3 (range 3.7 – 9.5)
The next evening - 23 hours after at 9:00 pm –    result = low @ 0.1 (range 0.6 – 1.9)

After reading so much about the possibility of Cortisol being part of the problem, I wanted to test before “O”, and then after, until I was well into full blown POIS (12-24hrs after for me).

As you can see from the results, I definitely don't have high Cortisol levels, but very low ones. The only one that was in range (barely) was the sample before “O” at 10:00 pm.

I sampled the blood spots 33 hours after “O” so I knew it would be as bad as it gets for me.
The blood tests results were as follows:

Estradiol –       result = high @ 58 (range 12 -56)
Testosterone –    result = low @ 342 (range 400 – 1200)
Ratio T/SHBG –    result = low @ 0.3 (range 0.7 – 1.0)
DHEAS –       result = normal @ 125 (range 70 – 325
SHBG –       result = normal @ 36 (range 15 – 50)
PSA –          result = normal @ 1.1 (range <0.5 – 4)
Free T4 –       result = normal @ 0.7 – 2.5)
Free T3 –       result = normal @ 3.4 (range 2.5 – 6.5)
TSH –          result = normal @ 3.0 (range 0.5 – 3.0)
TPO –          result = high @ 380 (range 0 – 150 w/70 being borderline)

I'm not sure what all of this means other than my Testosterone is definitely low and my TPO is very high. ZRT did send a note with the results that stated my Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) is elevated, indicating “Autoimmune Thyroiditis” - often referred to as “Hashimoto's Thyroiditis”. They say in the letter that this can lead to exhaustion of the adrenals and low Cortisol, which may explain the low Cortisol levels above. So even though I tried to provide good data on Cortisol, I may have another issue that makes those tests for the purpose of providing data for us POIS sufferers a moot one.

Of course, they did not mention my low Testosterone in the correspondence other than report the number. I guess they did not think it far enough outside the norm to address.

I will definitely follow up with my doc to see if I can get a referral to an Endo for validation and further testing.

Demo, I can't remember the “T” numbers you had before starting the patches. Can you tell me again what they were so I can compare. I'm thinking I may benefit from “T” therapy as well. After 30 + years of this hell, I would take any improvement... even 25 %... not to mention the 70 – 90 % you have experienced.

Thanks again everyone for keeping us thinking and testing as we try to figure this thing out!

[John21 (OP)]

Limejuice,

John inspired me and now I'm also trying yogurt diet - yogurt twice daily.

Remember that I had my success only after eating this once daily for over 6 months. I am glad you are going to eat it twice daily, this might help speed things up (assuming it will work). I would recommend you eat a low fat brand, and you might try to find one with Howaru in it, they list where it can be bought here. Good luck!

[martin88]

Martin (or anyone else who remembers), I tried a number of Google searches of the forum and I just couldn't find the post about who it was that saved our posts or said that they could in the future. Maybe I used the wrong keywords ("back up posts server"). Any ideas? Anyone?

I just did an other backup it's more simple like that!

As promised, I am reporting back on the tests I had run with ZRT Labs. I selected the “Comprehensive Male Profile II” that includes saliva and blood spot testing.

Thank you EDS for your report. I'm a bit lost to see people with high testosterone or cortisol and then other with low values of the same hormones.
You said your tests were from blood spot and saliva do you know which one ?
If your results are confirmed by endo you can take a look at the following remedy to raise cortisol: Ribes Nigrum. Maybe it's not effective at all I don't know.

[demografx]

I just did an other backup it's more simple like that!

Wow, Martin, thank you for doing that!!

[demografx]

                Brain Fog

[demografx]

Demo, I can't remember the “T” numbers you had before starting the patches. Can you tell me again what they were so I can compare. I'm thinking I may benefit from “T” therapy as well. After 30 + years of this hell, I would take any improvement... even 25 %... not to mention the 70 – 90 % you have experienced.

EDS, maybe this older post I dug up can help:

SOME TESTOSTERONE TESTING

Someone here asked me privately for my "free testosterone" testing results (much more was tested), so I thought I'd post it in case anyone else is interested:


Before POIS treatment:
(December 2, '08)
                                    reference range

%FREE T            1.47 %           1.5 - 2.2
FREE T             24.4 pg/mL        35 - 155


After POIS treatment:
(March 2, '09 after about 6 weeks of wearing T-patches)


%FREE T             1.45 %             1.5 - 2.2
FREE T              37.0 pg/mL          35 - 155


Free T jumped 50%, from 24.4 to 37.0.

Endocrinologist expects the numbers to keep increasing through June. If they don't, he'll switch me from Androderm T-patches 10mg daily to a pump gel to increase my testosterone.

[GoingCrazy]

Does anyone here experience some POIS symptoms just after mild sexual stimulation?

[CertainlyPOIS]

I am going to start this yogurt diet too, i will eat one yougurt a day.  Is yoplait + enough or should i get special one.

[CertainlyPOIS]

goingcrazy i dont get pois symptoms from small stimu but i get it from not sleeping.
I thought of trying to to produce without the Big "O" to see if pois will come or not but i couldn't take risk.

[CertainlyPOIS]

For those setting up backup do you need help. I am down.

[CertainlyPOIS]

John it will be nice if you can finish what you started.

[John21 (OP)]

CC,

John it will be nice if you can finish what you started.

I had to think about that for a sec, yes that would be surprising.

BJim,

Many people with symptoms instinctively think the immune system is depressed after ejaculation. It's a strong theory we have talked many times here.
I think if yoghurts/probiotics may have a little effect on Pois, effect on immune system is a better hypothesis than candida or something elese.
I have compared my symptoms when I got a "cold" to Pois symptoms. There are a lot of similarities.
But anyway, normal yoghurts never really helped me. Maybe probiotics yoghurts are better...

This sounds logical, swollen glands was always a symptom of mine that seemed to indicate immune system involvement. But if that were the case wouldn't we show higher white blood cell counts in blood tests while in POIS? I would think this would definitely have shown up in one of us. I'm sure that my white blood cell counts in POIS were always normal .

[martin88]

Good Job EDS!
Very very interesting to see your cortisol normal at  10pm and low at 9pm, 1 day after orgasm.

I agree with you B_Jim. However it can always be the test accuracy and/or a change in diet or psychologicals factors. To validate results we need several tests. What is sure is that the cortisol is always low. According to the ranges I suppose the cortisol should be around 1 at 10pm[0.4-1] and 1.2 at 10:45pm[1.2-3]. If cortisol is too low at 10pm could it be a delayed phase sleep? (pure supposition)
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/sbr/2003/00000001/00000003/art00006

You said your tests were from blood spot and saliva do you know which one ?

The answer is on their site (and in EDS's post) :
Comprehensive Male Profile II (Blood/Saliva)  : Assesses gonadal, adrenal, and thyroid hormones. Includes blood spot: E2, T, SHBG, DS, PSA, TSH, fT3, fT4, TPO; and saliva: Diurnal 4x Cortisol

[GoingCrazy]

I will be taking threelac,  http://www.candidaaid.com/   ,  within the next week and possibly even today for a duration of 2 months.  I will notify the forum of the outcome.

[Finally]

SOME TESTOSTERONE TESTING

Someone here asked me privately for my "free testosterone" testing results (much more was tested), so I thought I'd post it in case anyone else is interested:


Before POIS treatment:
(December 2, '08)
                                    reference range

%FREE T            1.47 %           1.5 - 2.2
FREE T             24.4 pg/mL        35 - 155


After POIS treatment:
(March 2, '09 after about 6 weeks of wearing T-patches)


%FREE T             1.45 %             1.5 - 2.2
FREE T              37.0 pg/mL          35 - 155


Free T jumped 50%, from 24.4 to 37.0.

Endocrinologist expects the numbers to keep increasing through June. If they don't, he'll switch me from Androderm T-patches 10mg daily to a pump gel to increase my testosterone.

I just got my test results:

                     Result:      Range:
Free Tesosterone:    9.3          7.2-24.0

Testosterone Serum    474         241-827

DHEA-Sulfate          141         70-310
(I take 50-75Mg. DHEA/day

EStradiol             29           0-53


Creatinine            .74          .76-1.27
(I have a vegetarian diet which would lower this.)

[Limejuice]

Thanks for the link John.

It may be difficult to get howaru yogurt.  They only sell it in Canada.

[John21 (OP)]

LJ,

It may be difficult to get howaru yogurt.  They only sell it in Canada.

Follow the link I posted, it says it is available in other countries.

[CertainlyPOIS]

My comprehensive blood test was during full pois, my white blood cell count was actually on the lower side, but i rarely get sick.

On NE. 

I have not have one for good while now. I believe that is because i give my organ space to expand when it needs to.

[demografx]

I prefer piano.

[Limejuice]

The pro advantage yogurt is only sold in Canada.  However, the EasiYo is sold in the USA but it must be made at home.  I don't know if I want to make yogurt for a month or two - I might give in.

Also there's a suppliment with 30x the Howaru as yogurt.  It's here: http://organicpharmacy.org/products/Ultra.Flora.IB

The only downside is it's $53.00 for 30 tablets.  Don't konw if I should pay the money.

Suggestions anyone?  I need your help making a decision.