[demografx]

I kept on researching POIS a bit more lately and I was wondering... how many of you have you been experiencing visual snow and tinnitus (intense and / or persistent ear buzzing) during the peak period of POIS symptoms?

Thanks, devastated, didn't know about visual snow, but here are some forum posts which included some discussion about tinnitus:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tinnitus+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

[demografx]

Isn't that [testosterone use] why body builders have smaller testicles?

And you know this how?  []

From word of mouth and several teachers and partly experience. You use testosterone without having deficiency your body starts to shut down its operation. 
When i used dhea( without guidiance i will say i noticed shrinkage in my testicles) not the same as testosterone but the precursor. 

CC, my endocrinologist agrees with you. I emailed him and he replied, "Too much testosterone may significantly decrease testes size. Replacement doses will not."

So thankfully I'm not in for shrinkage probs!

[Paulrx]

Thank you for the warm welcome, demografx.
I do not suffer from POIS, but my partner does. I'm gay. I'm the one who found out this was what he was suffering from.

Has anyone tried taking anti-prolactin drugs to see if it can prevent or cure POIS?

[demografx]

It's been 22 days since I last had a release, and I'm feeling some pressure that doesn't feel too healthy.

What is your average length of abstinence?

[demografx]

Thank you for the warm welcome, demografx.
I do not suffer from POIS, but my partner does. I'm gay. I'm the one who found out this was what he was suffering from.

Has anyone tried taking anti-prolactin drugs to see if it can prevent or cure POIS?

You're welcome, Paulrx.

Another member is considering testing the anti-prolactin drug, bromocriptine, for POIS in the future.

I considered taking it for my hyperprolactinemia (hp, high prolactin) but I was told that it's not a benign agent. I cured myself of hp by reading up on it and quitting reglan, with my endocrinologist's blessing.

My prolactin count finally went from 90 to 9!

Prolactin in men is not yet well understood at all.

[Paulrx]

demografx, it wouldn't be dangerous to take bromo or dostinex prior and after the orgasm. Now, what about Deprenyl? It's a very safe drug. Has anyone ever tried?

Also, you never answered me about a technique called prostate milking, which consist in expelling semen by some kind of massage, therefore not involving any orgasm. Could that allow POIS sufferers being abstinent for extended period of time by preventing tension build up?

[CertainlyPOIS]

demografx, it wouldn't be dangerous to take bromo or dostinex prior and after the orgasm. Now, what about Deprenyl? It's a very safe drug. Has anyone ever tried?

Also, you never answered me about a technique called prostate milking, which consist in expelling semen by some kind of massage, therefore not involving any orgasm. Could that allow POIS sufferers being abstinent for extended period of time by preventing tension build up?

I was just going to say not everyone has high prolactima so that might not be cause, you have check to see whether high or not, have you ?
Me for example have perfect prolactin level but close to lowest level of testosterone, during pois

[CertainlyPOIS]

Isn't that [testosterone use] why body builders have smaller testicles?

And you know this how?  []

From word of mouth and several teachers and partly experience. You use testosterone without having deficiency your body starts to shut down its operation. 
When i used dhea( without guidiance i will say i noticed shrinkage in my testicles) not the same as testosterone but the precursor. 

CC, my endocrinologist agrees with you. I emailed him and he replied, "Too much testosterone may significantly decrease testes size. Replacement doses will not."

So thankfully I'm not in for shrinkage probs!

What is a replacement dose, are you talking about enough to make up for the difference.

I am curious if my testosterone is so close to lower limit, will it fall below the limit as i get to the age when testosterone level starts to drop naturally.
Demograpx  could this be what happened to you and took doctors so long to realize it.

[Dean93]

It's been 22 days since I last had a release, and I'm feeling some pressure that doesn't feel too healthy.

What is your average length of abstinence?

Thanks Demo. My average number that my body naturally allows is in the lower 20's, I had NE this morning, so 23 would be about right.

Thanks for letting me know about the turmeric GC.

[Paulrx]

CCconfucius, my idea is not to lower prolactin in general but to prevent the body from releasing excess amount following an orgasm. I'm tempted to think that the prolactin spike my me responsible for the cascade of reactions taking place in the brain and responsible for POIS.

[demografx]

my idea is...to prevent the body from releasing excess amount[s of prolactin] following an orgasm...[T]he prolactin spike may be responsible for the cascade of reactions taking place in the brain and responsible for POIS.

Fascinating, Paul! Can you elaborate any more? How you arrived at that idea, etc.?

[demografx]

It's been 22 days since I last had a release, and I'm feeling some pressure that doesn't feel too healthy.

What is your average length of abstinence?

Thanks Demo. My average number that my body naturally allows is in the lower 20's, I had NE this morning, so 23 would be about right.

OK, then, sorry, I was wrong about the "unusual" abstinence pressure that you're feeling right now. Because it seems that you're within the range of abstinence that your body is accustomed to and comfortable with.

How are you doing after the NE?

[demografx]

demografx,

Now, what about Deprenyl? It's a very safe drug. Has anyone ever tried?

Past forum discussions (not many) about Deprenyl:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=deprenyl+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

You never answered me about a technique called prostate milking.

You never asked me.  []

(1) it was an extension of a dialogue between you and Defsync, and (2) it was either posed vaguely as a question to Defsync, or as a general question to no one in particular as you can see below:

yeah i can do that [orgasm without ejaculation] but it doesnt work for me, as i've stated before whatever causes the "feel good" sensation, with or without ejac, causes my POIS

Have some POIS sufferers tried a technique called prostate milking?

Besides, I'm no more of an expert than anyone else here. []

[Paulrx]

demografx, the prolactin spike following an ejaculation induces drowsiness. Prolactin is also the only known neurochemical manifestation of ejaculation. Why don't women get such drowsiness and refractory period after an orgasm? Because they their bodies don't produce such spikes. It seems logical to assume that the prolactin spike in certain susceptible individuals triggers a cascade of biochemical reactions. I of course don't have a mechanism to offer but I suspect POIS sufferer have somewhat compromised dopaminergic system.

To prove this theory valid, we simply need to prevent the body from releasing prolactin during and just after an ejaculation. We have 2 interesting molecules to test this hypothesis: bromocriptine and cabergoline.

Another very interesting drug I already mentioned is Deprenyl. It's a MAO inhibitor, and for this reason decreases prolactin. PEA, which is a related compound, alone or in conjunction could also be of the greatest interest.
 
One should also understand that it is not about trying to chronically lower a prolactin level that is normal in most cases, but to counter the sudden and massive prolactin spike.

To make a link with my previous posts, the non-parmacological approach would consist is making sure the body does not produce prolactin spikes by avoid ejaculation. I believe most the POIS sufferers are wrongly assuming that orgasm is the culprit, it's more likely the ejaculation, triggered by the sympathetic system, unlike orgasm, that produces the spike. The reason of this confusion is that orgasm and ejaculation occur sultaneously, but are in fact two totally different physiological events. Therefore, I was indicating the 2 possible methods to avoid ejaculation without suffering from sexual tension.

The first approach is dry orgasm. I am not sure at all that the people who claim to have mastered these techniques have truly become multi-orgasmic. A dry orgasm is most of the time a retrograde ejaculation, resulting of course in a prolactin spike.

The second approach is called prostate milking, which is originally a medical procedure used to empty the prostate of certain patients.I believe that the fullness of the prostate is responsible for feeling of sexual tension described by abstinent people. Emptying the prostate without necessitating an ejaculation could provide relief to POIS sufferers.

You might want to ask me then how real dry orgasm could provide relief since the prostate wouldn't get emptied obviously. This is very simple: the prostate is a very pulsatile organ, always ready to shoot. This is by the way what characterizes premature ejaculation. However, if the sympathetic stimulation of the prostate has been greatly sh1t down by regular dry orgasms, the prostate ceases to be in a pulsatile state and therefore can empty itself into the bladder, which is a normal phenomenon abstinent people observe.

[Dean93]

I'm doing alright, I guess, relatively. For being in POIS. As I've said, I have a pretty long duration, but I've noticed that I've never gone a whole period without having another orgasm. I'm going to try not to have any and see if it will shorten the duration, which will stand as motivation for other times. I'm also going to get more sleep.

I have a tendency to completely forget about POIS once it leaves, because I want to enjoy the time when I'm not symptomatic, but it's really hindering my progress. I'm going to have to start testing even if it means losing some part of my "actual" life. Otherwise the cycle will never end, and I'll always be where I was 2+ years ago. It's all just very unfortunate. I'm confident that I'll beat it one day though, with the help of all of information on this thread. Thanks everyone.

[CertainlyPOIS]

I was just going to say on website we dont have ambient's success story with trying 5- http.

[demografx]

CC, I'll email Pyro with your question. His web access in China is spotty. Thanks.

Or were you referring to B_Jim's summary?

[demografx]

Dean, very glad to hear you push for testing. What's kept me going for 30+ years of POIS was to not succumb to despair - - - by doing the next POSSIBLE thing...testing, contacting "experts", joining this forum, etc.

[demografx]

Paulrx, your ideas are very interesting. Was it just the post-ejac solo-neurochemical-manifestation or something else that brought you to the prolactin theory? Your idea caught my attention because I panicked for months about my sky-high prolactin (10X reference range) and found myself to be my own doctor because no one knows anything about prolactin in men! I cured it by quitting reglan, which I found in wikipedia to often cause prolactin increase. Amazingly, none of my top physicians were aware of that. Again, male prolactin sdeems to be ignored by the medical community.

Do you think an (f)MRI at orgasm could reveal an abnormally high prolactin spike? Or maybe we just need to do a routine hormonal lab test immediately after orgasm to tell the story. Then perhaps we can do a comparison of those results with a non-POIS "normal" individual also at orgasm. Statistical reliability would of course require more than just 2 individuals.

Re bromocriptine, my friend who warned me about it is a highly respected Harvard biophycisist who pioneered much of the HIV/AIDS research on protease inhibitors, in HIV/AIDS' research infancy. But maybe you're saying it's safer to test it  only before/after orgasm vs. a steady daily regimen?

BTW, Paulrx, you sound like you have experience or education in the health field?

[demografx]

B_Jim, thank you very much for detailing your current experience!