[demografx]

CC, thanks for asking about my TRT. TRT applies various forms of testosterone when the testes produce insufficient testosterone. I think you're right to expect a decline as you age. How much is anybody's guess.

I wish I knew my T history. I don't trust some recent years' testing because they used one simple number, maybe even the wrong one. Then the lab once said my T was high. A year later I found out why: the report said I was female! There's no way my first name could ever be interpreted as female! (No, I didn't tell the lab my name was demografx [])

I think testosterone can help even if someone is "normal". JUST A HUNCH! I went from 10mg daily which brought me to "normal". With endo approval, I upped the dose 50% to 15mg, and...I feel better!

[GoingCrazy]

I'm also going to get more sleep.

I forgot to mention that the time when I developed POIS, sleep was a big factor. The coffee that I used to drink prevented me from dreaming for probably 1.5 years.  I also used to sleep with a fan blowing in my face but now I prefer no noise at all because it leaves me feeling more refreshed in the mornings.  Now I dream all the time.  How do all of you sleep?

[demografx]

How do all of you sleep?

I sleep too well!

I tend to oversleep. Which is not good.

[demografx]

I was just going to say on website we dont have ambient's success story with trying 5- htp.

CC, Pyro wrote back: "This is something I will certainly add under successful  methods.  I’ll have to search the forum for Ambient’s success story to get more details first; what was the syntax for searching the forum through google? [CC, I just sent him the search results/links]  It might take me awhile with the [Chinese] internet always flaking out on me…."

[demografx]

Thought some of you might want to see Ambient's post that CC is referring to:

CC, it's been about 6 months since this post on his cure was written. Do we have an update?

5-HTP

Hey everyone.

Apologies for the large gap in my posts, but I have been conducting my experiment based on my Serotonin Imbalance theory

My projected self-treatment consisted of:

X2 100mg 5-HTP capsules per day (One late morning, the other before bed)

Prior to treatments, my POIS symptoms, and quite frequent out-of-POIS symptoms included:

Depression
Low Mood
Negativity and obsessive thoughts
Low self-esteem
Strong fatigue
Carbohydrate cravings
Low mental energy
Poor attention span
Impatience
Poor concentration
Poor memory
Thoughts of death (these were only during the intense POIS stages, don't worry
Low motivation

etc...

I conducted the experiment for the length of two weeks, with the same regime of 2 100mg 5-HTP capsules daily.

Here is my feedback.

I am delighted to report that I now consider myself virtually cured of POIS since this treatment began, leading me to believe that my POIS was Serotonin-related. As you can see, almost every symptoms listed above mirrors those of a Serotonin imbalance. (Percentage cured 90+ %)

Here are the symptoms which have been alleviated:

Depression - My depressive symptoms have disappeared completely. I am more content and happy after orgasm.

Low Mood - I no longer suffer from a low mood the day following orgasm and thereafter.

Negativity - My thoughts dwell on only the positive since my treatment began.

Low self-esteem - I have found myself to be more confident than previously following orgasm (though i am still quite quiet)

Strong Fatigue - My fatigue has also almost completely disappeared. Now, following orgasm, i can find the strength to do virtually anything physical.

Carbohydrate cravings - After orgasm, i would usually feel intense pangs of hunger, which would only disappear temporarily if I were to eat a lot of carbohydrates. This is no longer an issue, and I hardly ever snack now.

Low mental energy - After orgasm, i used to feel exhausted and tired mentally. This tiredness would ususally last a few days. Now, however I have much more mental energy after orgasm, with my cognition skills being virtually unhindered.

Poor attention span - After orgasm, and sometimes out-of-POIS, i would experience a poor attention span, with me being unable to concentrate on anything for more than a period of about 12 seconds. Since my treatment, i am pleased to say that my attention span has sky-rocketed, with me being able to concentrate for endless amounts of time. For example, being a huge fan of the band, The Doors, i would never before have been able to listen to their epic song, "The End", which lasts over 11 minutes, without stopping and moving on to another song. However since treatment, I have been able to listen to the song back-to-back without even letting my mind divert elsewhere.

Impatience - Before treatment, i would become very impatient, especially after orgasm, unwilling to wait large amounts of time for anything. Since treatment, I am pleased to say that I am more more patient, willing to wait any length of time, even after orgasm.

Poor concentration - My poor concentration has also disappeared. Before my treatment, I would sometimes be unable to follow even a basic line of language in a book, for example, after orgasm. Now, however, after orgasm i am much more able to focus and concentrate.

Poor memory - Before my treatment, i would notice a decrease in my memory function after orgasm, which, as you know, can devastate even a simple task. Since then, however, my memory has improved considerably.

Low motivation - My motivation to complete tasks is now incredible since my treatment. Coupled with patience and attention span, i find myself willing to complete a task with patience and determination no matter how long it takes.


Thus, as you can see, it seems that 5-HTP has been my "miracle cure" you might say. It has certainly alleviated most if not all of my POIS symptoms, and I find myself able to enjoy "O" without the knowledge that I will soon be festooned with symptoms.

I apologise for the long-winded nature of this post, however it might be worth trying 5-HTP as your POIS cure. It has certainly proved to be a wonder-cure. And best of all, it is a natural supplement, so there are minimal side effects.

Thank you

Ambient

[Paulrx]

Yes, demografx, I'm in the biochemistry field. I believe your friend is a biochemist, not a biophysicist. All the drugs I mentioned, except probably cabergoline newly found side effects, have been used extensively for decades and have very safe profile. But again, it's not about taking these drugs daily but around the orgasm time to totally block the POIS cascade. But we don't care at all about these side effects in general here because the use of these drugs is intended to be occasional.

An fMRI would be definitely very interesting because it might reveal very specific neural patterns that would corroborate the prolactin triggered cascade hypothesis. However, undergoing such an experiment is not that easy.

I do not want to sound rude, but I do not think that POIS sufferers here will get much if any result with experimenting with vitamins, and other over-the-counter supplements. POIS is obviously a major neuro-endocrine anomaly. It is not something one can easily fix with herbs and potions.

Attempting to measure prolactin level prior, during and after the orgasm in a POIS sufferer is probably useless. The spike is not necessarily more pronounced than in normal person. It just initiate a cascade when the prolactin spike is above a certain threshold.

Regarding 5-HTP, which is definitely an active substance, it could very well have a possitive overall health effect in many POIS sufferers but I doubt it could cure POIS. POIS is not due to a serotonin imbalance. What is very possible that the POIS cascade, which results in a neurotrasmitter/neuroendocrine crash, ends up with transient serotonin depletion.

However, I see a very interesting POIS treatment, but not cure: it is the side effect that accompanies 5-HTP intake. 5-HTP, as well as SSRIs drugs, kills the libido and the ability to have an orgasm. It is very likely that the weakness of the orgasm will be such that the prolactin spike will always stay below the cascade trigger threshold. Also, ejaculation would be much more spread out, due to the lowered interest in sex.
To conclude, 5-HTP would not be a cure for POIS but some kind of mild smart neurological castration.

A protocol could be a daily regimen of 5-HTP (100 to 400 mg), bromocriptine (2.5 to 5 mg) around noon, the day of the orgasm (because of the relatively short half-life). If not enough, a very small dose of Deprenyl 3 times a day could be added to the above protocol.

[Paulrx]

demografx, I don't know why you were taking reglan (metochlopramide) daily, which is very good accompanied with acetaminophen to treat headaches with nausea by the way, but it's a secret to no one that metochlopramide increases prolactin level. Why? because it's a dopamine antagonist. Even a fist year med student would know that. And this prolactin stimulating effect has precisely been used to induce lactation in women!

[Ambient123]

5-HTP

Hey guys.

Apologies for having been away for so long, but i've been conducting intense research on this subject (visiting reputable websites, libraries etc).

I recently received a message from Cconfucious asking whether or not my 5-HTP treatment was still working

There is some good news and some bad news:

The good news is that it is an effective means of reducing my pois symptoms to some degree. However, taking it for long periods of time (three weeks to a month) can cause excessive tiredness and deplete dopamine levels, because 5-HTP increases serotonin levels, and the serotonin/dopamine relationship is a delicate one.

Since i began my research, i have come to the opinion that I am suffering from low testosterone levels, and have an appointment with a new doctor this afternoon to check on this.

In conclusion

I would say that 5-HTP is a beneficial relief from the symptoms of pois, but is not a long-term solution. If you do wish to take it for a longer amount of time than i have suggested, i would recommend you take it for two weeks, and then have a two week break before continuing (alternate between two weeks on and two weeks off)

[Ambient123]

P.S

Paulrx, while it is understandable to believe that 5-HTP causes low libido, i actually found that it heightened my interest in sex, and if i took it before going to bed, i frequently had nocturnal emissions (apologies for that unpleasant fact [])

But you are right when you say that it is not the cure, only a temporary relief.

Thanks

Ambient

[GoingCrazy]

Naps definately help  Unfortunately I don't sleep well that night if I nap, so I don't nap.

Question - does anyone get a runny nose after eating?

I found out my mother and aunt do which are similar symptoms of POIS.  I'm interested in knowing if you do to.  Google research shows a runny nose after eating is common but the cause is not known, nor the solution.  Some speculate a mild allergy to all food.  Could we have an allergy to O'ing?

LJ, sorry for the late reply, but yes I do get a runny nose after eating as well.

Yeah, I just noticed I do get a runny nose after eating too.

[CertainlyPOIS]

I looked at old test result and saw that my free testosterone is way below normal for any age.
19 pg/ml   35- 155pg/ml  I dismissed it because urologist told me my total was to high then
but that that i took that blood test i started recovery faster than usual.

2nd test free testosterone is low but not out of range but total T very close to lower range.

if put these these two test together, do you guys think it will warrant some attention.

[demografx]

demografx, I don't know why you were taking reglan (metochlopramide)[sic] daily, which is very good accompanied with acetaminophen to treat headaches with nausea by the way, but it's a secret to no one that metochlopramide increases prolactin level. Why? because it's a dopamine antagonist. Even a fist [sic] year med student would know that. And this prolactin stimulating effect has precisely been used to induce lactation in women!

Again, I said it's not well known or studied in men, not women. As I mentioned earlier, prolactin's role in women is widespread common knowledge.

And I have indeed talked to endocrinologists and some bright med school students who confirm it's rarely studied. In men, prolactin is basically ignored.

Yes, I heard all about the reglan/dopamine antagonist scenario from one expert...who had to look it up. The rest basically were not concerned about hyperprolactinemia. Except for prolactin partially being responsible for the low libido. But that was being treated very well.

I cured the high prolactin count and went from 90 to 9.

Paulrx, it's a highly specialized world we live in, and I don't fault the physicians and others I consulted for not knowing more about prolactin.

I'm sure you'll agree that it's impossible for any one physician or health care provider to keep up with the explosive growth in worldwide data, studies, treatments, etc. My endo, for example, specializes, as many do, in this case diabetes.

The miracle is that my endo was politically brave enough to take on POIS!

All the drugs I mentioned [including bromocriptine] have [a] very safe profile.

Bromocriptine - - Combined with MAO inhibitors:  Dangerous rise in blood pressure; When driving: Danger increases if you drink alcohol or take medicine affecting alertness and reflexes, such as antihistamines, tranquilizers, sedatives, pain medicine, narcotics and mind-altering drugs. (From MD Advice).

I don't often see the word "danger" when side effects are mentioned.

Prolonged use:

May lead to uncontrolled movements of head, face, mouth, tongue, arms or legs. (same source)

Bromocriptine is an anti-Parkinson's disease drug. That alone scares me. Even if taken once a year.

Back to the medical world's knowledge base, read up on this forum's history with health care providers, and you'll see the decades long struggle of getting ANY doctor to take notice of our POIS! And when they do, they often just refer us to shrinks...because "it's all in our heads"!

What I'm saying is that, until serious scientific research happens, we have some very primitive problems to deal with.

[demografx]

Your friend is a biochemist, not a biophysicist.

Ph.D. in Biophysics from the University of Chicago.

(1) POIS is obviously a major neuro-endocrine anomaly...(2) POIS is not due to a serotonin imbalance...(3) (prolactin) just initiate(s) a cascade when the prolactin spike is above a certain threshold...

Not proven!

Besides, we have found in our 3 years here that there are many varieties of POIS, as different as night from day.

To conclude, 5-HTP would not be a cure for POIS.

Which type of POIS?

Paulrx, I respectfully urge you to review at least some of the massive history we've accumulated here. Some of your statements reflect a gap. We have worked with an impressive group of medical/technical people both within and outside this forum, such as my Harvard friend.

Learn what we have found.

But you do have some ideas to add to our growing list of plausible ideas, perhaps for future testing. Thank you for that.

[demografx]

I looked at old test result and saw that my free testosterone is way below normal for any age.
19 pg/ml   35- 155pg/ml  I dismissed it because urologist told me my total was to high then
but that that i took that blood test i started recovery faster than usual.

2nd test free testosterone is low but not out of range but total T very close to lower range.

if put these these two test together, do you guys think it will warrant some attention?

Definitely, CC!

My endo and a previous urologist and a previous GP, all had no problem (eventually, when I promised to stop screaming  []) to increase my dose, even when my T was "normal". But I emphatically urged that I wanted this treatment for POIS and not for insufficient testosterone. And I kept insisting! And some of this insistence was back in the day when fear was widespread about T and cancer. So I just agreed to any kind of monitoring they wanted to do. And yes, I told them I was desperate. But without a wild gleam in my eye. []

And I also cited the internationally well-respected Czech researcher whom I found and consulted with, after 20-30 years of dark, dead-end alleys, and his firm conclusion was: testosterone-for-POIS! This was around the time that Dr Waldinger's study first came out in 2002.

I worried that "Professor Czech" was possibly crazy but I-just-didn't-care! If someone told me cyanide.....no, forget that []

[demografx]

I believe most the POIS sufferers are wrongly assuming that orgasm is the culprit, it's more likely the ejaculation [is].

So we'll have to change our name to PEIS? Won't that offend the PENIS people??? []

[GoingCrazy]

I believe most the POIS sufferers are wrongly assuming that orgasm is the culprit, it's more likely the ejaculation [is].

So we'll have to change our name to PEIS? Won't that offend the PENIS people??? []

Like some others on here, POIS arises from the good feeling of sex, whether orgasmic or not for me.

I also think that POIS is not relatively a new condition.  Maybe even people thousands of years ago had this disease.  Maybe even 50 years ago, internet sites like this were unavailable.  But I think that some people actually cured their POIS without using sites such as these.  Say if you had this disease for 5 years and cured it, say abstinence was the main cause to slow healing, would you than search the internet about post orgasmic illness if you didn't have it anymore?  Certainly for me the more POIS I have the more I am on this site.  I just can't believe this would be a new condition

[demografx]

I believe most the POIS sufferers are wrongly assuming that orgasm is the culprit, it's more likely the ejaculation [is].

So we'll have to change our name to PEIS? Won't that offend the PENIS people??? []

Like some others on here, POIS arises from the good feeling of sex, whether orgasmic or not for me.

I also think that POIS is not relatively a new condition.  Maybe even people thousands of years ago had this disease.  Maybe even 50 years ago, internet sites like this were unavailable.  But I think that some people actually cured their POIS without using sites such as these.  Say if you had this disease for 5 years and cured it, say abstinence was the main cause to slow healing, would you than search the internet about post orgasmic illness if you didn't have it anymore?  Certainly for me the more POIS I have the more I am on this site.  I just can't believe this would be a new condition

Asian populations were writing about "POIS" 5,000 years ago! (as postorgasmic, serious loss of energy and poor physical/mental state).

One thing that puzzles me is that from reading about Asian medicine, "POIS" symptoms seem to be widespread, but here in the U.S. and in Western countries, POIS seems to be rare.

Anyone have an idea, why is POIS rare here but widespread over there? Is it our embarrassment over sex, preventing us from talking about it?

[demografx]

I asked my psychiatrist today what she thought of the fact that Asian populations have seemingly enormous writing and discussion and symptom-description on "POIS" compared to us here in the West. She thinks that Asian populations just might be more genetically susceptible to POIS. Makes sense to me: there are illnesses that are disproportionately found in other populations; African-American, Ashkenazi Jewish, etc.

Perhaps we here would do well to find out what mainstream Asian medicine (not the naturopathic, "chi" alternative therapies which have not shown us much)  has to say about POIS!

Anyone have a thought about that?
 

[Dean93]

That was my thought Demo, but although POIS may be similar, or identical, to its equivalent in Asia, their names are certainly not the same. Does anyone have any knowledge that could help bridge the gap? Search terms perhaps?

[demografx]

Thanks, Dean! Search terms, yes, excellent idea. I just emailed Pyropeach, who is in China, to see if he can help.

FWIW, Google in China is http://www.google.cn