[GoingCrazy]

ajs, check this out,  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081122214242AAPK1SN   , "realeasing a lot of dopamine, epinephrine and serotonin into the system... the body keeps them in reserve".  I think me and your POIS are sort of similar, mine instead of aderall, it was caused by coffee... Maybe we just lack normal amounts in our system?  It takes a lot of time to replace,too.  Maybe explaining why I couldn't wake up after 12 hours of sleep without getting a headache, if I woke up before 12 p.m. the next day I would always get headaches.  Maybe insufficient amounts?

[hurray]

I genuinely think that we all suffer from a hormonal imbalance caused by orgasm

Hurray, I have always thought that was a "sacred cow" of POIS as well, but how would you explain the fact that several members here have come up with normal readings hormonally?

I guess I would argue that hormone tests don't always give the full picture - a quick count of wikipedias list of human hormones revealed roughly 65-70 different ones - only the most determined and/or wealthy patient could do regular tests on all of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_hormones

I am willing to believe POIS can be caused by an autoimmune reaction to orgasm, but this too ought to produce a measurable change in hormone levels before and after orgasm.

[hurray]

B_Jim, Hurray, Demo,

I buy the idea that at least one form of POIS is caused hormonally.

Here is what could be going on. Simplistically: too much adrenaline is produced and has difficulty converting back to dopamine. Dopamine runs low, producing symptoms, and the excess adrenaline produces symptoms.

Demo,
Have you ever tried taking tyrosine?

I would not be at all surprised if adrenaline/epinephrine played a major role in triggering POIS symptoms - certainly it would be one of the hormones worth measuring before/after orgasm.

I have tried Tyrosine supplementation pretty comprehensively, along with a few other dopaminergics - unfortunately, in my particular case, they did little to prevent or alleviate POIS symptoms, although they were very stimulating out of POIS.

[demografx]

Demo,

Have you ever tried taking tyrosine?

No, John, never tried it.

[demografx]

Laurac, many thanks for your concern about my Adderall and testosterone (and I'm back on caffeine/sugar as well!).

Many years ago, I kicked an amphetamine habit, so I fought the docs on Adderall hard at first.

I've been on Adderall successfully now for over 3 years, with a drastic reduction in dosage. Tolerance does not develop when taken properly. But it has taken me decades to get it right! I failed many times because I'm prone to habitual behavior.

The testosterone affects me less as a stimulant but more as a quicker sperm-regeneration/sexual system/libido restoration mechanism - at least that's my hypothesis.

I think that testosterone augmentation - even at normal levels - can help POIS, for the reasons above. I think it pushed me to nearly 100% POIS-free when I increased T even though I reached "normal", and DECREASED Adderall.

[demografx]

Hurray, I now understand better your position on hormones I agree.

Just curious, hurray, why you stress hormones over, say, neurotransmitters? (I do, too, but I can't explain why).

[mister_z]

Hi,

I haven't posted here in a while.

I am currently considering trying various amino acids for extended periods of time.

I am considering (not at the same time) 5HTP, TMG (not an aminoacid but... hey.. :p), Theanine, Tyrosine, Arginine (all with B1 and B6)
Also I have been taking Glutamine at high doses I am not sure whether it will help or not.

Do you have any comments/experience with the amino acids mentionned above ?

Also,

I have noticed sometimes I can tell before orgasm, even before I start with anything that I am going to have a ... malaise after orgasm if I bring things to their conclusion.
Sometimes I can feel the malaise (although extremely weak) just by getting mentally stimulated (looking at adult material etc).
It feels abit like I am flushed when this happens.
I dont feel warm or anything just I guess like there would be vasodilation or constriction happening. Especially in the lips and face. This feeling also usually goes with mild nausea.

Also,

I had my testosterone levels checked 3 times now. free testosterone is still below the lower limit for my age.
I also had other hormones checked (prolactin and the like) all came back very normal.

[martin88]

I took 1 pill of tyrosine out of POIS, it was a good experience (aphrodisiac and increased sense of rythm when listening to music.. perceived like that)

Prevalence rates of POIS ?Here is a document about DHAT syndrome which is by definition "semen loss anxiety" , I don't agree POIS is psychological. What I found interesting in this were the numbers 11,7% and 30%!And the description (losing semen in urine). http://www.indianpsychiatry.com/dhat..pdf

[hurray]

Hurray, I now understand better your position on hormones I agree.

Just curious, hurray, why you stress hormones over, say, neurotransmitters? (I do, too, but I can't explain why).

Just reminding myself of the difference between neurotransmitters and hormones:

Hormones vs Neurotransmitters

Similarities:
Both H and NT are packaged in vesicles
Both are expelled from cell through process of exocytosis
Both bind with specific receptors
Both depolarize target membrane

Differences:

Hormones
1)   secreted by neurons and endocrine cells
2)   secreted into bloodstream
3)   travel nanometers to meters
4)   long latency of action
5)   no voluntary control

Neurotransmitters
1)   secreted by neurons
2)   secreted into synaptic cleft
3)   travel 20-30 nanometers
4)   action is generally immediate
5)   some voluntary control

From http://www.geocities.com/hhugs2001/endocrine_system.htm

It could well be that neurotransmitters are the most important mechanism behind POIS, Demo. Unfortunately, the extreme difficulty in gaining accurate measurements of neurotransmitters means we might have to settle for taking blood samples of hormone levels, and using these to perhaps determine what is happening inside our brain. Luckily, POIS also has physical symptoms, there must be an excellent chance we can link physical symptoms to changing hormone levels at some point.

[mister_z]

has anyone done ECG, EEG, CT, MRI, blood pressure, glycemia, blood count, temperature, hormones right after orgasm?

also has anyone looked at midodrine ?

[John21 (OP)]

Mr. Z

has anyone done ECG, EEG, CT, MRI, blood pressure, glycemia, blood count, temperature, hormones right after orgasm?

Post orgasm I have had bloodwork and sugar levels checked, both were normal.  I have had both a CT and MRI years ago for my diplopia, but I don't remember whether they were in POIS, I'm thinking they were not. But I once noticed a definite increase in blood pressure in POIS, which I was able to demonstrate to my doctor of that time. This was the only concrete "proof" I have ever had to demonstrate the physiological change.

[mister_z]

Personally I measured my blood pressure within 2 minutes after orgasm and I had low blood pressure (very low in fact)

[Finally]

my hangover is very similar to pois

Me too. I stopped drinking 16 years ago.

Jet lag and exercise also cause strange body/mind reactions.

It has been about 22 years.  I had the same symptoms from alcohol as POIS not just a next day hangover but long term pain and stiffness in neck, shoulder(particularly) and upper back.  I thought it might be a ph change but no test could provide any concurrence.

[mister_z]

about pH changes. could systemic acidosis be a factor?

Oh and did anyone bother checking with an oxymeter?

[lauracostis]

has anyone done ECG, EEG, CT, MRI, blood pressure, glycemia, blood count, temperature, hormones right after orgasm?

also has anyone looked at midodrine ?

midodrine looks interesting, but my doctor probably wont prescribe it to me since i just convinced him let me try various beta blockers a month ago. if a came back with in a months time with a hypotensive medication "midodrine" he would have me on a short leash.  i still think that low brain oxygen is partly to blame for cognitive dysfunction.

[demografx]

has anyone done ECG, EEG, CT, MRI, blood pressure, glycemia, blood count, temperature, hormones right after orgasm?

Exactly what needs to be done! I did MRI of the brain (pituitary) and some of the above, but a week after.

[demografx]

I am considering (not at the same time) 5HTP, TMG (not an aminoacid but... hey.. :p), Theanine, Tyrosine, Arginine (all with B1 and B6) Also I have been taking Glutamine.

Do you have any comments/experience with the amino acids mentioned above ?

Below are previous Forum discussions which mentioned the above. Message #s do change, so please look for the approximate Message #.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=amino+acid+OR+Glutamine+OR+5HTP+OR+TMG+OR+Theanine+OR+Tyrosine+OR+Arginine+OR+B1+OR+B6%2C+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&btnG=Search&aq=o&oq=&aqi=

[lauracostis]

has anyone done ECG, EEG, CT, MRI, blood pressure, glycemia, blood count, temperature, hormones right after orgasm?

Exactly what needs to be done! I did MRI of the brain (pituitary) and some of the above, but a week after.

demo, anything abnormal with pituitary gland

[demografx]

Laurac, they found a "partially empty sella", which didn't seem to concern the endocrinologist at all. He was looking for tumors and found none.

[mister_z]

Laurac, they found a "partially empty sella", which didn't seem to concern the endocrinologist at all. He was looking for tumors and found none.

does that mean you have prolactinemia then ? (sorry I am not familiar with your case)