Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6200 on: 28/11/2009 13:08:46 »
I feel like my whole life is being wasted in front of my eyes, and no body in my family knows how much I suffer because of this.     

I fully agree with you...and trust me you're not more desperate than anyone on this forum.....and the threads speak for themselves....we're just all working hard as much as we can to try getting out of this misery.......and welcome aboard...
« Last Edit: 28/11/2009 14:21:58 by Z_one »

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Offline mental

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6201 on: 28/11/2009 13:57:46 »
guys I just saw this video on youtube newbielink:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrP8F86Tiq8 [nonactive].
The video mentions something about brain activity during orgasm, so maybe we have something wrong when it comes to the anxiety part of the brain not being deactivated or something.
and guys is it possible to do something similar to the experiment in the video, maybe someone can volunteer or can contact the university in Holland.   

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Offline Mr_Canadian

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6202 on: 28/11/2009 20:28:47 »
Magnesium Theory

Hello everyone - I'd like to share some observations and a theory regarding the cause (and possible treatment) for POIS. Having read through a zillion pages of this thread, I noticed many connected items that could provide some insight.

1) John21's solution involved eliminating milk products, which of course are sources of abundant calcium. Calcium burns through magnesium (it's required to process the calcium), to the point where one can be loaded with calcium and still face calcium deficiency.

2) Demografx's solution may in fact be twofold. His testosterone patches seemed to seal the deal, and magnesium is directly related with T-levels in the blood. Additionally, Adderall and other amphetamines raise Mg serum levels, and interestingly, Mg supplementation supposedly decreases amph. tolerance - likely not due to the medication, but because the amph. is masking the original deficiency.

3) There are common themes among many of the members here - depression, anxiety, attention deficit disorders, and especially premature ejaculation, the latter of which is a distinct indication of magnesium deficiency. There are many papers floating around that attach the other symptoms to lackluster Mg levels as well.

4) Neurotransmitters require Mg for the production and regulation. More interesting is that in a test with male rats and hypertension, high doses of Mg not only relieved the hypertension, but caused a surge of dopamine at the top of the brain stem - precisely where male dopamine release stems from according to the video posted by mental.

5) At least two posters I've come across here (and whose names elude me) reported improvement of POIS symptoms with Mg supplementation. One went on to say it worked in his youth, but not now. Mineral absorption decreases with age - perhaps the type of Mg and dosage have large impacts on replenishment.

6) A female poster, whose name also eludes me, reported that she took an Advil before and an antacid after and experienced relief. One can guess what one of the primary ingredients of antacids are due to its alkalizing effect - magnesium.

7) Histamine production raises in the absence of purposefully Mg-starved rats.

8) Mg regulates unnatural neurotransmitter production in the brain center of rats due to oxygen starvation.

9) Mg regulates blood sugar levels - the more sugar one eats, the more Mg is likely burnt through such regulation.

10) Mg is burnt through stress and any sort of activity, especially strenuous activity.

11) Every POIS symptom - every single one - could be lined up with an Mg-deficiency symptom list.
« Last Edit: 28/11/2009 23:33:53 by Mr_Canadian »

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Offline Pablo445

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6203 on: 28/11/2009 21:30:33 »
guys I just saw this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrP8F86Tiq8 [nofollow].
The video mentions something about brain activity during orgasm, so maybe we have something wrong when it comes to the anxiety part of the brain not being deactivated or something.
and guys is it possible to do something similar to the experiment in the video, maybe someone can volunteer or can contact the university in Holland.  

Thanks Mental - this is interesting. First the scientist will want to understand what a "normal" orgasm represents. Then they might want to look at the "not-normal" orgasm. It is nice to see people researching this topic with modern tools. The part that really interested me though is the part where you see people getting ready to jump off the cliff. It got my attention because the few times I did para-sailing I had a POIS like episode afterward! Same kind of symptoms. First the excitement and euphoria followed by several days of fatigue, mind fog, anxiety, feeling depleted,  etc. Same pattern - not as strong as with an orgasm but same pattern. It happens with any big stress for me - whether it is a positive fun stress like parasailing or a tragic incident. Similar hormonal response. So to me that says it is clearly a neurotransmitters disorder. At least for my POIS. And I will look at healing strategies with this conclusion in mind.

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Offline John21

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6204 on: 28/11/2009 23:01:08 »
Mr_CDN,

Thanks for this info. I am quite sure I have been down that road before, but I can not recall. Perhaps magnesium supplementation is a good idea to try, the idea fits nicely with my chronic insomnia. Also maybe my POIS back pains (my first POIS symptoms) were due to low magnesium. 

From this site.

Quote
Magnesium Deficiency Symptoms
Some of the common symptoms of magnesium deficiency include:[27,40,41]

Chronic fatigue, weakness and exhaustion
Excessive noise and pain sensitivity
High blood pressure
Headaches
Irritability, nervousness, anxiety
Depression and apathy
Muscle spasms, tics, cramps, tremors (especially of hands, feet, or facial muscles)
Difficulty with memory and concentration
Insomnia
Chronic constipation
Chronic excessive muscle tension
Confusion and disorientation
Anorexia (poor appetite)
Emotional instability/overreaction
Ataxia (an impaired ability to coordinate movement)
Irregular or rapid heartbeat

My diet has improved over the years, could an improvement in magnesium absorption be the reason for my lack of POIS (at times)? Woo-hoo, another supplement to throw money at! [:)]

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Offline Mr_Canadian

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6205 on: 28/11/2009 23:55:43 »
I suppose "magnesium deficiency" is actually a misnomer - it would be like calling an immobile car "gas deficient", and I realize now it sounds sort of corny because the term is tossed around so much.

I guess my main point is that there is a strange connection between what everyone is experiencing here and Mg. I became particularly interested when I was reading papers about Mg and depression, and a fellow who had supplemented with Mg was not only able to reestablish his mental state - but also mysteriously correct another problem he had suffered for some time, which was PE.

Mg seems almost like a sort of fuel that keeps us going through stress, activity and bodily function, and once it's down too low, processes start to go haywire.

Even take Pablo's comment - anything stressful puts him in a "POIS" state, and I'm willing to bet money that POIS is yet another huge indicator that there is something lacking in the body, especially since while it feels good, sex is incredibly stressful. Is it that we're driving on empty?

I think the road to take would be to eat a diet that offers enough Mg, but also cuts out Mg depleting foods such as sugar, milk and anything processed. Basically the garbage we stuff ourselves with every day.

The second step would be to stay away from that which uses up the fuel quicker than it can be replenished until one is healthy again - including excessive stress, activity and so on. Adding more Mg is pointless if it's always being drained.

A pill once a day on top of that wouldn't hurt, but one needs to take into account the type of Mg and the duration for which they're taking it, both of which are incredibly important beyond measure.




Mr_CDN,

Thanks for this info. I am quite sure I have been down that road before, but I can not recall. Perhaps magnesium supplementation is a good idea to try, the idea fits nicely with my chronic insomnia. Also maybe my POIS back pains (my first POIS symptoms) were due to low magnesium. 

From newbielink:http://intelegen.com/nutrients/magnesium.htm [nonactive]
Quote
Magnesium Deficiency Symptoms
Some of the common symptoms of magnesium deficiency include:[27,40,41]

Chronic fatigue, weakness and exhaustion
Excessive noise and pain sensitivity
High blood pressure
Headaches
Irritability, nervousness, anxiety
Depression and apathy
Muscle spasms, tics, cramps, tremors (especially of hands, feet, or facial muscles)
Difficulty with memory and concentration
Insomnia
Chronic constipation
Chronic excessive muscle tension
Confusion and disorientation
Anorexia (poor appetite)
Emotional instability/overreaction
Ataxia (an impaired ability to coordinate movement)
Irregular or rapid heartbeat

My diet has improved over the years, could an improvement in magnesium absorption be the reason for my lack of POIS (at times)? Woo-hoo, another supplement to throw money at! [:)]

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Offline Limejuice

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6206 on: 29/11/2009 00:41:46 »
EDS, how does the supplemented T continue to work for you?  At the same success as before, better, or worst?  Thanks!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6207 on: 29/11/2009 04:14:54 »

guys I just saw this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrP8F86Tiq8.

The video mentions something about brain activity during orgasm, so maybe we have something wrong when it comes to the anxiety part of the brain not being deactivated or something.
and guys is it possible to do something similar to the experiment in the video, maybe someone can volunteer or can contact the university in Holland.   


Thanks Mental - this is interesting. First the scientist will want to understand what a "normal" orgasm represents. Then they might want to look at the "not-normal" orgasm. It is nice to see people researching this topic with modern tools. The part that really interested me though is the part where you see people getting ready to jump off the cliff. It got my attention because the few times I did para-sailing I had a POIS like episode afterward! Same kind of symptoms. First the excitement and euphoria followed by several days of fatigue, mind fog, anxiety, feeling depleted,  etc. Same pattern - not as strong as with an orgasm but same pattern. It happens with any big stress for me - whether it is a positive fun stress like parasailing or a tragic incident. Similar hormonal response. So to me that says it is clearly a neurotransmitters disorder. At least for my POIS. And I will look at healing strategies with this conclusion in mind.




BRAIN SCAN OF ORGASM

Thanks, "mental" and Pablo! This is an interesting video on Sex and the Brain, which includes Dr. Gert Holstege, a pioneer of scanning during orgasm. One of our members has already been in touch with him. I'll repeat mental's video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrP8F86Tiq8

Dr. Holstege's paper, "Brain Activation during Human Male Ejaculation"
http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/23/27/9185

We could approach Dr Holstege to see if he has interest in studying our postorgasmic data (realtime via fMRI) and POIS?

He's in the Netherlands.

Some of us in the forum are near the Netherlands. OR Holstege might be interested in working with U.S. counterparts? (Other researchers he could recommend here who could carry out the mechanics of scanning volunteers from this forum).

Any other thoughts?
« Last Edit: 29/11/2009 05:19:05 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6208 on: 29/11/2009 04:17:07 »

Mr_Canadian, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum.




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Our new POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. This can help fight the immediate reaction of some: IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for nearly 3 years, which has attracted over 150 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus nearly 500,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6209 on: 29/11/2009 04:18:03 »


Mr_Canadian, this post will help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: over 2 years' worth of posts from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found on the Internet, but not on this forum.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx POIS site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6210 on: 29/11/2009 04:38:23 »
Dr. Helen Fisher, human behavior researcher

I just sent her a POIS outreach letter.

Dr. Fisher can be seen at the beginning of the video that "mental" just posted above, 3 posts back. She seems to be a leader in the area of human sexuality and evolution of the brain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Fisher_(anthropologist)

Her book: Why We Love: The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic Love                [emphasis mine - demo]

Hopefully, she will reply with some pointers!
« Last Edit: 29/11/2009 05:21:09 by demografx »

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6211 on: 29/11/2009 11:10:32 »

Wow! Wonderful, Z_one! 3!!! [;D]

Quote

Thx for the laughters... But Iam still going to see three endos and three immunos and will let you know how it goes... [:D]


May I suggest something? It helped me a lot when meeting and establishing credibility with a top endocrinologist, who I am now working with:

For medical credibility, show the original POIS paper written by Dr Waldinger, (MD) and importantly, his co-author, Dr Dave Schweitzer, who is an endocrinologist(!)

I think it's difficult for an endocrinologist to outright dismiss another endocrinologist!

I can only email you a copy of it, PDF's don't attach to PM's here at the forum.

At least, here is an Abstract
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13719471 [nofollow]


With all respect to Dr. Waldinger which I personally have no doubt about, that doesn't refrain me from seeking other venues especially that there is no definite cure yet! Besides,,,,a top doctor is always relative to each and every case and patient...while doctors from various backgrounds often dismiss each others, which is why there are always various contradicting theories with regard to various diseases !

Plz go ahead and send me his PDF letter...I will PM you my email.....

Thx,
« Last Edit: 29/11/2009 14:11:12 by Z_one »

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6212 on: 29/11/2009 11:19:23 »
I am going to see three endos in a row this week..in an aim to put an end to this misery....

Cant wait to see what you find. Good luck



Thx Porke...if anything relevant pops up...will post it out....

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6213 on: 29/11/2009 11:28:10 »
Could POIS simply be a severe symptom of Adrenal exhaustion or adrenal disease rather than being a disease itself?

Some causes of adrenal disorders are Cushing's syndrome, hypothalamic disorders, pituitary gland disorders, pheochromocytoma and benign and cancerous adrenal tumours.


The reason why Iam thinking of that is because sexual exhaustion and adrenal fatigue are suppose to be very much interrelated ...and with very common symptoms....

Also last month I totally abstained  for 3 weeks in a row...after which I noticed that POIS was 90% cured after the first time....When my sexual activity resumed and increased in frequency ( Four times and above within the fourth week)...POIS was back....I guess it was an false early Hurray....but apparently with a pause, my overall body & metabolism have dramaticaly improved....

By the way, I had done a complete blood test including Hormonal & Immune system check three weeks ago,,,both my Endo & Generalist doctors think that all test are normal,,,,which only makes me shift again my focus to the adrenal fatigue theory,,,since apparently unless adrenal fatigue is severe..it is hard to detect with routine tests....

On the other hand, I am also considering a hypothalamus/pituitary gland disorder which only gets manifested during release of sexual hormones....I am still inquiring & researching with regard to that,,,,


B_Jim sorry for not replying to ur PM earlier...I was inactive for a while...as to answer u..my symptoms are similar to everybody else but without the flu symptoms ( I thankfully never got those). Therefore I beleive those who have flu symptoms are more or less dealing with an auto-immune disorder such as Addison disease or others...

My symptoms are mainly:

1- Excessive fatigue (Impossible to wake up early the next day!)
2- Fast heart palpitations
3- Weight & muscle loss
4- Eating disorder/ Cravings.
5- Brain fog
6- All senses get confused.
7- Low blood pressure.
8- Anti-social mood.

If I would to put a title I would choose: " The 72hrs body crash!"

Hope this helps.....Also with regard to Black seed oil or Nigella Sativa..it personally helps me alot....it is a general tonic and cure all for the body and works well with Ginseng and Tribulus....

In addition, at a certain stage , Maca worked like magic for me,,,somehow after 2 weeks of use it appears to have completely lost its effectiveness...like a reverse effect or something from overuse....

Tribulus & Ginseng has proven the most effective for me, while Fenugreek, Zinc & Garlic were useless....

I still have not tried Relora nor Rhodiola.....ordered them from the US.

Hope this helps....



Peace.


Wishing you the best on your success with Rhodiola . . . I've had some great results using a US-brand of Rhodiola (Mind Body & Spirit). I combine it with an adaptogens blend called ENERGY RESERVES, which works great to supplement the Rhodiola.

Thx JonJen...actually believe it or not my package has till no arrived ! The shippers claim that they have no mean of tracking my package after 40 days of ordering now.....hard to believe in the 21st century....hey! [::)]

By the way Rhodiola is one of the most powerful adaptogens ....it was used by the KGB for years to confront harsh conditions....as well as by the soviet Olympic team....no wonder you felt the punch,,, [8D]

Iam glad you have improved....hope it works out for me as well....

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6214 on: 29/11/2009 11:33:58 »


Demografx, I'm quite suprised with your results of this practice. Did you really achieve orgasm without ejaculation?


That was the promise, and it certainly looked like one without the other (it was "dry"), but it turned out to simply be a fluid diversion to the bladder. I used Mantak Chia's method on Page 120:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2656200/Mantak-Chia-Taoist-Secrets-Of-Love-Cultivating-the-Male-Sexual-Energy [nofollow]



Demografx, let me know if I can write more details on how to begin the process and how I did it step by step.


Please do. Your second post was reassuring. Thank you.

I personally don't believe that dry orgasms are healthy at all! It's unnatural and might lead to serious undermined biological problems on the long run,,.,,,perhaps the only benefit for those who succeed is to avoid POIS ! Again that's purely my opinion....
« Last Edit: 29/11/2009 14:12:44 by Z_one »

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6215 on: 29/11/2009 12:46:52 »



I've had some great results using a US-brand of Rhodiola (Mind Body & Spirit). I combine it with an adaptogens blend called ENERGY RESERVES, which works great to supplement the Rhodiola.


JonJen, congrats!

Can you please tell us more about how Rhodiola affected your POIS? (Before and after would be nice)

Before: my POIS actually made me afraid to have sex. I didn't want what would happen afterwards. I became an expert in the intercourse part, and always faked (yes, I am sure others do this) the orgasm part and put it away without actually having the joy of it. I tried Rhodiola and some other herbs before, with no result. Then, I changed brands and bought something more expensive that I had read about. Ten days or two weeks later I went "all the way" and found that I wasn't getting the same POIS reactions afterwards. I was actually recovering in an hour or two. While I still have some very big issues to work out, I am more confident now as well. And I believe that the herb has also increased my desire. I thought that was a bad side effect at first, but with diminished POIS, desire is not a bad thing.

Again Iam glad you're having improvements....but Iam affraid that adaptogens and testosterone could most probably mask POIS symptoms rather than being a direct cure to the core problem.....however yes it's still better than nothing,,,,

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6216 on: 29/11/2009 12:55:32 »
Magnesium Theory

Hello everyone - I'd like to share some observations and a theory regarding the cause (and possible treatment) for POIS. Having read through a zillion pages of this thread, I noticed many connected items that could provide some insight.

1) John21's solution involved eliminating milk products, which of course are sources of abundant calcium. Calcium burns through magnesium (it's required to process the calcium), to the point where one can be loaded with calcium and still face calcium deficiency.

2) Demografx's solution may in fact be twofold. His testosterone patches seemed to seal the deal, and magnesium is directly related with T-levels in the blood. Additionally, Adderall and other amphetamines raise Mg serum levels, and interestingly, Mg supplementation supposedly decreases amph. tolerance - likely not due to the medication, but because the amph. is masking the original deficiency.

3) There are common themes among many of the members here - depression, anxiety, attention deficit disorders, and especially premature ejaculation, the latter of which is a distinct indication of magnesium deficiency. There are many papers floating around that attach the other symptoms to lackluster Mg levels as well.

4) Neurotransmitters require Mg for the production and regulation. More interesting is that in a test with male rats and hypertension, high doses of Mg not only relieved the hypertension, but caused a surge of dopamine at the top of the brain stem - precisely where male dopamine release stems from according to the video posted by mental.

5) At least two posters I've come across here (and whose names elude me) reported improvement of POIS symptoms with Mg supplementation. One went on to say it worked in his youth, but not now. Mineral absorption decreases with age - perhaps the type of Mg and dosage have large impacts on replenishment.

6) A female poster, whose name also eludes me, reported that she took an Advil before and an antacid after and experienced relief. One can guess what one of the primary ingredients of antacids are due to its alkalizing effect - magnesium.

7) Histamine production raises in the absence of purposefully Mg-starved rats.

8) Mg regulates unnatural neurotransmitter production in the brain center of rats due to oxygen starvation.

9) Mg regulates blood sugar levels - the more sugar one eats, the more Mg is likely burnt through such regulation.

10) Mg is burnt through stress and any sort of activity, especially strenuous activity.

11) Every POIS symptom - every single one - could be lined up with an Mg-deficiency symptom list.

Very interesting Mr. Canadian and very well thought off....in fact by googling with Magnesium deficiency and autoimmune disease....it seems both are very much correlated...now the challenge we are faced off....is try figure out wether it is a deficiency in a (vitamin, mineral, transmitter or other,,,,) that it causing an autoimmune reaction or vice versa....I guess that's very hard to prove since every POIS sufferer is different in a a way or another....

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6217 on: 29/11/2009 13:00:03 »

Until I finish my full diagnosis.....

Just wanted to report a noticeable improvement after intentionally drinking Chamomile tea! After doing some research it seems Chamomile is a very powerful anti-histamine...now my next post is going to be ever more interesting with regard to anti-histamines....

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6218 on: 29/11/2009 13:32:26 »
All POIS cases

A] TNS Forum :
 
(colors : improvement in orange   healed in red )

Note : sometimes the indicated page has changed, please look the next or previous page. 

1/ John21 (p1) Improvement with Garlic ! (p42-p47)

2/ Bjim (p1)   60-70% better Diet to reduce flulike symptoms (p45) theory DHEA/Cortisol => derealisation (p33)   Dopamine sumary and DHEA/IL-6 (p163)
3/ Demografx (p1)  >90% healed with combination of Levitra and Testosterone patch (p1)   Demografx talk about "small adrenal glands" (p29) A physical problem on adrenals or HPA axis is possible
4/ Cox (p1)
5/ Mellirova (p1)
great article :
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract&ArtikelNr=99840&Ausgabe=232878&ProduktNr=223864 [nofollow]
6/ Bobsie (p2)
7/ TracyST (p2)
8/ JPLewin (p2)
9/ Nathan (p3)
10/ Dave23 (p4) Healed with his complex protocol (testosterone, Relora...) (p16)
11/ Imre1 (p6) 100% Healed with betablocker
12/ ChrisB (p6)
13/ Agjchs (p8) 100% Healed with 12.g mg of DHEA after orgasm (p8)
14/ Antman (p9)
15/ Gonzo (p10)
16/ Porke (p10) Limited improvement and talk about heavy metals (p29) Good improvement with Fenugreek (p88)
17/ Bizzy (p10)
18/ Wowsawow (p10)
19/ E.J. (p11)
20/ Ultraka (p11)
21/Guthrie (p11) Guthrie has vitamin-D deficiency (p188). He's starting supplement .
22/ Tate (p12)
23/ Interested's boy friend (p12)
24/ El Stonio (p12)  Improvment with zinc (p36)
25/ Ender (p13)
26/ Jo58 (p13)
27/ Nobody007 (p14)
28/ HK1979 (p15)
29/ Wikkid (p16) Very light case.
30/ Bosseflambe's boyfriend (p16)
31/ Living 30 (p16)
32/ Solution (p17)
33/ Sokovan (p17)
34/ Fiddlerpaul (p17)
35/ Pdawg (p19) Light
36/ Nopoison (p19)
37/ Cdma77 (p19)
38/ Pyropeach (p20)
39/ Netherlands2008 (p20)
40/ Curtis19786 (p22)
41/ Deloun (p22) Deloun great post on catecholamines (p146) [nofollow]
42/ Uh-clem (p23)
43/ Rapidgaming (p23)
44/ Jerobam (p24)
45/ Girlwind (p25). Great Video on youtube [nofollow] (What is POIS ?). Improvement with 'adrenal fatigue' supplement (p47) [7Keto Dhea, Maca, Siberian Giseng, B5, B100, Fish Oil, Transdermal magnesium, Triptophan] + (p55) Thyroid supplement? (p63) : Girlwind improvement CFS/POIS with seaweeds.
46/ Geo (p26)
47/ Counterpoints (p26)
48/ Rock27 (p28) Rock27 has low testosterone level Day 3 (p173)
49/ Jamie_wood888 (p28)
50/ Martin88 (p31)_ Martin and Finally talk about Guaiafesin and its effect on ATP for fibromyalgia. (P 109)
51/ Sparx (p33)
52/ Michael8028 (p34) Intersting posts about ATP and sexual neurasthenia (1800's) (p42)
* Healed with treatment (hormones, supplements) [nofollow]
53/ Yukka (p40-41) (2 Interesting posts about hormones after masturbation)
54/ Cookie87  (p42)
55/ Bola-bola (p42)
56/ ollecrev (p43)
57/ Coreman (p44) Improvement with protocol . Alpha 20C quickly heals his brainfog, mood, and physical strenght ( p110 ) IMMUNITY
58/ Nick_B_85 (p45)
59/ goodoleboy55 (p45)
60/ Longwalkhome (p46)
61/ Questforlife (p48)
62/ prosodye (p48)
63/ Animus (p49)
64/ Finally (p51) Little succes with enzymes + ...
65/ Aloha (p51)
66/ William (p53)
67/ Stilkus (p53)
68/ CCconfucius (p54)
69/ DigitalMac (p54)
70/ Hurray (p55) Possible improvement with oxytocin (fenugreek)(p71) Hurray talk about fenugreek and effect on sociability (p75)
71/ tacabrighe (p57)
72/ Chewbacca (p69)
73/ Whoaa (p71) Levitra succes Testosterone optimization and diet/sport(p167)
74/ Tarkington (p62)  Healed with Relora* (cortisol regulation)(p72)
75/ Shahnameh (p73) Succes with Fenugreek
76/ Reater (p74)  Diet
77/ Limejuice (p74) Pray, exercice, fish oil   Healed with Phosphatidylserine (p152)
78/ Andreas_F (p88)
79/ Laroux's girlfriend (p92) Healed with 1/2 teaspoon of celtic salt (non-iodized) after orgasm. Interesting theory of hyponatrenia
80/ Gement (p93)
81/ Underwater (p99) Anti-histamine seem to block the allergic symptoms just after orgasm (P170).
82/ Phasian (p100)
83/ MattJ (p56)
84/ Davep007 (p103)
85/ SteveD (p106)
86/ Jasmine07 (p121)
87/ SickLifeSaver (p127)
88/ Pro (p127) Good description of mental confusion
89/ Fellow sufferer (p127)
90/ Richargear (p130)
91/ Londonchap (p133)
92/ Jack D (p134)
93/ mister_z (p135)
94/ goingcrazy (p140)
95/ Jiddu5 (p139)
96/ Rob58 (p143)
97/ Pantaloon (p174) Demo accidentaly deletes his post :)
98/ Nsf (p150)
99/ Jidmiddleton (p150)
100/ Ambient123 (p152) (L-Tyrosine improvement p163) Very good improvement with 5HTP (p188)
101/ Neverstop (p159)  (L-Tyrosine)
102/ Defsync (p160) "chemo-brain" p137
103/ Aaronchi (p161)
104/ Staystrong (p168)
105/ Welness (p169)
106/ nTonic (p170)
107/ EDS (p171)  => EDS lab test show a normal cortisol level and a low cortisol level 24 hours later (after ejaculation). + hypotestosteronemia. (=> P 210)
108/ ajs (p174)
109/ POIS-SUFFERER (p174)
110/ Deniseamonalisa (p175)
111/ RhythmSpring (p177) RythmSpring has Pois AND lyme disease. He's currently  following antibiotic treatment for lyme. We'll see if antibiotics and meds for lyme have an effect on his Pois symptoms. (p228)
112/ antimorbit (p178)
113/ Dean93 (p181)
114/ zaaria (p182)
115/ Jdubs (p183)
116/ Pronobis (p185)
117/ Botbot (p190)
118/ beyondfrustrated (p191)
119/ David_S (p192)
120/ Langjahr (p198)
121/ NakedDynamo (p198)
122/ Chipdouglas (p202)
123/ daisi_sufferer (p203)
124/ Claret88 (P206)
125/ Green (p207)
126/ mat780 (p214)
127/ helpimsad (p217)
128/ Danny_Boy (p217) Copper toxicity theory_ "chelation" with molybdium and other minerals
129/ THISFORUMROCKS! (p217)
130/ lauracostis (p220)
131/ Bill12 (p220)
132/ johnl3 (p220)
133/ sclover49 (p221)
134/ tazdas  (p222)
135/ JonJen99 (p223)
136/ Pois_is_hell (p226)
137/ CrazyFox (p227)
138/ Wooder (p227)
139/ Tom2009 (p230)
140/ Pauliebaby61 (p235)
141/ Taz (p236)
142/ Z_One (P236) symptoms (p252) + help with Black seed oil or Nigella Sativa.
143/ Itsmebutwho? (p236)
144/ devastated (p238)
145/ bruxe (p245)
146/ Looking_for_answer (p246)
147/ ophicus1213 (p248)
148/ Pablo445 (p254)
149/ exponent (p257)
150/ tazzy (p258) RELORA
151/ Holden F. Anmar-Dey (p261)
152/ PRZ (p261)
153/ europe (p261)
154/ greg44 (p262)
155/ Mental (p262)
156/ Mr_Canadian (p263) Magnesium
 
To be continued

Send me a private message if i forgot something or if you want to add an important post.

Quote
* Relora is a phytotherapy supplement with Magnolia and Phellodendron.
It is supposed to regulate cortisol and balance steroid (DHEA). The scientific value of  this supplement seems to be proved by a study.

Relora and Fenugreek results for our forum
[nofollow]


B]Cases found on the Web [nofollow]




The underlying anti-histamine theory:


1) Garlic is one of nature's most powerful anti-histamines....
2) DHEA beneficial since converts to Testosterone....---->
3) Testosterone has proven to be very effective in buffering autoimmune symptoms throughout the years...but again is it acting like a Mask to the symptoms rather than a cure?
4)Not only does Relora balances DHEA/ Cortisol ratio but it has also anti-histamines properties!
5) Zinc is a vital nutrient for proper immune system functioning....and therefore boosts anti-histamines!
6) Fish oil or Omega 3 have both anti-inflamatory and anti-histamine properties....
5) Fenugreek is a natural anti-histamine!
6) Celtic salt is a very strong natural anti-histamine!
7) Nigella sativa boosts the endocrine system and is a powerful anti-histamine!
8) Last but not least,,,,Magnesium is a powerful anti-histamine!
9) One more...Vitamin D plays a role in regulation of both the "infectious" immune system and the "inflammatory" immune system and yes helps anti-histamines! Less vitamin D = Equal more Flus & Colds.
10)...and I just noticed,...Alpha 20C is loaded with Vitamin C which is a very powerful natural anti-histamine!
11) AND why do I feel better after drinking 2 cups of 100% pure coffee...is because Coffee increases adrenaline...and adrenaline blocks histamines!
12) ....and to close it up.,,,you can add Chamomille to the list which is also loaded with.... ,,I think you have guessed....


Hope this helps,,,,,
« Last Edit: 29/11/2009 19:50:36 by Z_one »

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6219 on: 29/11/2009 13:55:26 »
Demo,

Was your T low before using T-pacthes? And has it increased your sexual urges since using them?

Are you aware of the possible long term side effects of using T-pacthes?

    Acne; bitter or strange taste in mouth; change in sex drive; fatigue; gum or mouth irritation; gum pain; gum tenderness or swelling; hair loss; headache.

SEVERE side effects may occur when using Testosterone Patch:

    Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); breast growth or pain; change in the size or shape of the testicles; dark urine or light-colored bowel movements; depression or mood changes; dizziness; gingivitis; interrupted breathing while sleeping; loss of appetite; nausea; painful or prolonged erection; stomach pain; swelling of the ankles or legs; urination problems; weight gain; yellowing of the skin or eyes.

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6220 on: 29/11/2009 13:57:01 »
PRZ & europe ...welcome!

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Offline Mr_Canadian

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6221 on: 29/11/2009 14:53:32 »
I have a question - does anyone's symptoms actually become worse as the days progress, until the day they finally disappear?

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6222 on: 29/11/2009 15:02:07 »
I have a question - does anyone's symptoms actually become worse as the days progress, until the day they finally disappear?

Yup...and Iam definitely one of them....

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Offline PRZ

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6223 on: 29/11/2009 16:01:13 »
Quote from: demografx
PRZ, thank you very much for posting this. It's a fascinating idea and we can all learn from this even though we might pursue different avenues.

Hey

I am really glad I can share this. I can sense that most of you are still too sceptical to even try this.

Quote from: Z_one
I personally don't believe that dry orgasms are healthy at all! It's unnatural and might lead to serious undermined biological problems on the long run,,.,,,perhaps the only benefit for those who succeed is to avoid POIS ! Again that's purely my opinion....

Hello Z_one
Can you tell me why do you think so? Because I had the same belief and discovered that it was only social and religious conditioning, that made me believe anything besides ejaculation is UNNATURAL. It was just a prejudice.

Anyway, I've never felt more healthy in my life and that's why I am quite confident it doesn't do any harm, though I can't guarantee this (didn't find any research).




 

 

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6224 on: 29/11/2009 18:51:14 »

Demografx : Thanks again for emails to scientists. I think you are right : brain scan is the only solution if Pois is caused by neurotransmitters. But can this current technology show deficiency/excess in different areas ? And what about receptors ?


B_Jim, you're welcome. You're absolutely right, it is only one area. But my frustration is that we need to start somewhere...anywhere. Do you have a better suggestion? Thanks again!

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6225 on: 29/11/2009 19:04:46 »

Demo,

Was your T low before using T-pacthes? And has it increased your sexual urges since using them?

Are you aware of the possible long term side effects of using T-pacthes?

    Acne; bitter or strange taste in mouth; change in sex drive; fatigue; gum or mouth irritation; gum pain; gum tenderness or swelling; hair loss; headache.

SEVERE side effects may occur when using Testosterone Patch:

    Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); breast growth or pain; change in the size or shape of the testicles; dark urine or light-colored bowel movements; depression or mood changes; dizziness; gingivitis; interrupted breathing while sleeping; loss of appetite; nausea; painful or prolonged erection; stomach pain; swelling of the ankles or legs; urination problems; weight gain; yellowing of the skin or eyes.


My answer is "yes" to all 3 questions. I have three questions for you: (1) What is your source for the above info? and (2) what percentage of users at what dose? and (3) how many patients were in this study group?

After one year with T-patches, me and my POIS are very happy. [;D] Working with one of the top endo's in the country at a world class multi-billion dollar university research facility.

But thanks for your concerns!

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6226 on: 29/11/2009 19:10:44 »

Hello Z_one
Can you tell me why do you think so? Because I had the same belief and discovered that it was only social and religious conditioning, that made me believe anything besides ejaculation is UNNATURAL. It was just a prejudice.

Anyway, I've never felt more healthy in my life and that's why I am quite confident it doesn't do any harm, though I can't guarantee this (didn't find any research).
 

1) Because semen is suppose to go out and you're holding it back,,,,,
2) By holding back semen you're inducing antagonist forces which will damage your prostate on the long run,,,,
3) Forcing semen backwards puts strain on your body rather than relieving tension and therefore might be dangerous for people with heart diseases and  high blood pressure....

As you can see there is nothing religious nor social in the above and it's purely biological!.....which is why I think it is Unnatural! As to you feeling healthy that might simply be due to the fact that you are with this technique avoiding POIS symptoms or due to an anecdotal evidence.......again that's purely my opinion and at the end of the day... you're certainly free to practice what you believe might be good for you !

« Last Edit: 29/11/2009 19:21:01 by Z_one »

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6227 on: 29/11/2009 19:46:49 »

Demo,

Was your T low before using T-pacthes? And has it increased your sexual urges since using them?

Are you aware of the possible long term side effects of using T-pacthes?

    Acne; bitter or strange taste in mouth; change in sex drive; fatigue; gum or mouth irritation; gum pain; gum tenderness or swelling; hair loss; headache.

SEVERE side effects may occur when using Testosterone Patch:

    Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); breast growth or pain; change in the size or shape of the testicles; dark urine or light-colored bowel movements; depression or mood changes; dizziness; gingivitis; interrupted breathing while sleeping; loss of appetite; nausea; painful or prolonged erection; stomach pain; swelling of the ankles or legs; urination problems; weight gain; yellowing of the skin or eyes.


My answer is "yes" to all 3 questions. I have three questions for you: (1) What is your source for the above info? and (2) what percentage of users at what dose? and (3) how many patients were in this study group?

After one year with T-patches, me and my POIS are very happy. [;D] Working with one of the top endo's in the country at a world class multi-billion dollar university research facility.

But thanks for your concerns!


When you say your T was low...do you mean close to lower normal range or below lower normal range?

Here's the link.....www.drugs.com/sfx/testosterone-side-effects.html     check it out....

As to your two other questions....I have no idea but you can always try contacting the authors of the website.....

Anyway...it looks that you're very content and confident in what you're doing....so wishing you continuing success!
« Last Edit: 29/11/2009 19:56:36 by Z_one »

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6228 on: 29/11/2009 19:58:52 »
I was wondering ....how do you guys feel after exercising during POIS? Does it make your symptoms worse or do you feel better?

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Offline Pablo445

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6229 on: 29/11/2009 20:24:48 »

Hello Z_one
Can you tell me why do you think so? Because I had the same belief and discovered that it was only social and religious conditioning, that made me believe anything besides ejaculation is UNNATURAL. It was just a prejudice.

Anyway, I've never felt more healthy in my life and that's why I am quite confident it doesn't do any harm, though I can't guarantee this (didn't find any research).
 

1) Because semen is suppose to go out and you're holding it back,,,,,
2) By holding back semen you're inducing antagonist forces which will damage your prostate on the long run,,,,
3) Forcing semen backwards puts strain on your body rather than relieving tension and therefore might be dangerous for people with heart diseases and  high blood pressure....

As you can see there is nothing religious nor social in the above and it's purely biological!.....which is why I think it is Unnatural! As to you feeling healthy that might simply be due to the fact that you are with this technique avoiding POIS symptoms or due to an anecdotal evidence.......again that's purely my opinion and at the end of the day... you're certainly free to practice what you believe might be good for you !


My rather worthless opinion and disorganized thoughts about this... :-)

1. This technique has been used literally for hundreds (thousands?) of years. This is not a new thing. It has been well developed in the East since at least 1,500 years.
2. Concerns for the prostate health is well understood and special "prostate exercises" are normally prescribed to make sure it remains healthy. If the prostate is not healthy to begin with the Taoist teacher will usually request that you clear up the problem before attempting to reach orgasm without ejaculating.
3. POIS success - I don't think it has much to do much with ejaculating per se - rather it has to do with the fact that practicing this type of sex does not bring a "down" or a "crash" afterward (so no lingering POIS). According to a Canadian sex therapist one man out of 600 does not have that "crash" after ejaculating. (I would like to see their brain scan!)
4, The lack of tension released is also recognized in the old texts and it is part of the teaching to make sure this abundant energy is used up with focused attention (martial arts, meditation, but also sports in general) to make sure the energy does not become anger or violence. (According to one teacher I had in Oriental medicine it was also part of the warrior training to build that intense energy - but that was just one of his stories, I have never read anything to confirm this)  
5. Using a book for experimenting and finding out if it is helpful or not is great. But for the long run it would be more cautious to find a teacher or a guide. Yes I believe it is possible to damage yourself if not done correctly . Just like many other things including yoga, tai chi, or even meditation - all activities known to be very safe.


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Offline Pablo445

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6230 on: 29/11/2009 20:31:43 »
I was wondering ....how do you guys feel after exercising during POIS? Does it make your symptoms worse or do you feel better?

For me it seems that light exercises (stretching, Egoscue training, yoga, walking, lifting light weights, calisthenics...) are very helpful and get me out of the foggy state (at least to the extent I can work OK) but strenuous or aerobic exercises (running, bicycling, heavy workouts...) make me feel better immediately only to crash further down soon afterward. So I avoid strenuous exercises in POIS state. It feels good when I am out of POIS though.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6231 on: 29/11/2009 20:44:03 »
B jim  when you did magenisium test was it serum or RBC - which i think is red blood cell.   

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6232 on: 29/11/2009 21:03:43 »
I was wondering ....how do you guys feel after exercising during POIS? Does it make your symptoms worse or do you feel better?



For me it seems that light exercises (stretching, Egoscue training, yoga, walking, lifting light weights, calisthenics...) are very helpful and get me out of the foggy state (at least to the extent I can work OK) but strenuous or aerobic exercises (running, bicycling, heavy workouts...) make me feel better immediately only to crash further down soon afterward. So I avoid strenuous exercises in POIS state. It feels good when I am out of POIS though.

I agree strenuous exercise makes my symptoms worse as well.,,,,,man don't tell me you're comparing "Dry orgsam" to "Yoga"!!! Are you serious??



  Just kidding.... [;D]

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Offline PRZ

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6233 on: 29/11/2009 21:36:47 »
Quote from: Z_one
1) Because semen is suppose to go out and you're holding it back,,,,,
2) By holding back semen you're inducing antagonist forces which will damage your prostate on the long run,,,,
3) Forcing semen backwards puts strain on your body rather than relieving tension and therefore might be dangerous for people with heart diseases and  high blood pressure....

As you can see there is nothing religious nor social in the above and it's purely biological!.....which is why I think it is Unnatural! As to you feeling healthy that might simply be due to the fact that you are with this technique avoiding POIS symptoms or due to an anecdotal evidence.......again that's purely my opinion and at the end of the day... you're certainly free to practice what you believe might be good for you !

Hey, thanks for answer

1)How do you know it is suppose to go out every time if we don't have a purpose to impregnate?
2)Any research to prove this?
3)This is crucial. This is why most people think it's unhealthy. THERE'S NO STRAIN ON MY BODY. I wrote that IT IS RELIEVING TENSION. It's not the same as stopping just before orgasm like many still think. I thought I made this clear. YOU REACH ORGASM! (Did you really read my previous posts?)

I didn't want to attack your opinion. Just wanted to make you think that maybe you've been taught about this your whole life by people who didn't even know about any other option.

Knowledge of sex is still really poor. Fact that it's the topic we shouldn't talk about has its reflection in science. Friends, erotic movies and porn - this is where most of our beliefs about sex come from. No wonder most people never heard about orgasming without ejaculation and think it's something unnatural (after years of programming their bodies that "semen has to go out").

I can see your belief is strong, so I won't try to convince you anymore.

Anyway, here's something I found:
1) newbielink:http://www.hps-online.com/tsy4.htm [nonactive]  - Article about losing your semen and its effects on health. It has spiritual character but still very interesting ideas. I especially liked the part about comparing ejaculation to blood donation.

2) newbielink:http://www.vasectomy-information.com/moreinfo/reabsorb.htm [nonactive]  - This is for those who don't believe in SPERM BEING REABSORBED by the body. The same thing happens when you have vasectomy and it doesn't do any long term harm. Actually, even if you ejaculate some sperm still stays inside and being reabsorbed.

I'm just curious. Is anyone here inspired enough by my posts and guide to start the practice? (Besides one person who wrote me private message)


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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6234 on: 29/11/2009 22:08:10 »
Apparently it is possible to reset the immune system by two extreme procedures....the first is bone marrow transplantation and the second is plasmapheresis.....though both are not without complications (sometimes life threatening),,,,they have been last resorts in treating all kinds of autoimmune diseases when the patient had enough living with drugs....i'll do some additional research on  alternatives to possibly reset the immune system,,
« Last Edit: 29/11/2009 22:10:57 by Z_one »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6235 on: 30/11/2009 01:08:46 »

you're very content and confident in what you're doing....so wishing you continuing success!


Thank you very much, Z_one.

It was curious to see that you didn't include the opening statement from drugs.com about "side effects":

"All medicines may cause side effects, but many people have no, or minor, side effects."

"Many" is often 99%. And we don't know if the other 1% is causative or associated.

One person in 10 years could report something! And we don't really know if the T caused it.

Also, "problem" patients are usually identified and taken off the drug immediately.

Thanks again for your concerns, though.
« Last Edit: 30/11/2009 01:10:23 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6236 on: 30/11/2009 01:48:22 »


As to your two other questions....[what percentage of users have these side effects and at what dose? and how many patients were in this study group?], I have no idea but you can always try contacting the authors of the website.....[emphasis mine - demo]


Z_one, since you are putting forth these warnings IN BOLD LETTERS AND UNDERLINED,


SEVERE side effects may occur when using Testosterone Patch:


I would suggest that it's your responsibility - not ours - to check these very, very basic facts before you publish "dire warnings" about testosterone patches. A treatment that could save lives. As it did mine.

Please consider this next time posting. Thanks.
« Last Edit: 30/11/2009 02:17:24 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6237 on: 30/11/2009 01:58:16 »

semen is suppose [sic] to go out


You have evidence for this?

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Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6238 on: 30/11/2009 03:26:37 »
has any body tried low dose , i am getting a prescription tomorrow.  it appears to be a wonder drug for many different aliments.

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Offline lauracostis

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6239 on: 30/11/2009 03:29:37 »
correction, "low dose naltrexone", it got edited out during spell check

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6240 on: 30/11/2009 04:35:50 »

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Offline exponent

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6241 on: 30/11/2009 04:43:15 »

semen is suppose [sic] to go out


You have evidence for this?

Okay, guys... can we not argue the purpose of semen? We should all know that semen is meant for procreation, and that procreation and the resulting replication of genes is the most important thing to our bodies. If that were not the case then our bodies would simply shut off their sexual aspect instead of allowing us to orgasm to our detriment.
"dry orgasms" or whatever may be a useful tool in avoiding pois, but it certainly isn't a cure.

now I have a few questions. we all talk about our symptoms frequently, but I want to get some insight into how we all are when we feel our best, so we can find any other correlations.

when you're at your best (non pois):

are you more introverted or extroverted?

active or sedentary?

what is your stress level (judged on a scale 1 to 10)?

how often are you hungry?

what is your stool like? (tending towards diarrhea, constipation, or average)


I know these questions are pretty out there but I've been reading up on imbalances of the autonomic nervous system and I want to see if we relate in that way.



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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6242 on: 30/11/2009 06:18:18 »

Waldinger's POIS paper now available by Private Message

Thanks to Martin (Martin88), we no longer have to use your regular email address to send you Dr. Waldinger's 2002 POIS paper!

We can enclose it now within a regular private message. Just send me a request for it and I'll get it right back to you.

To follow copyright rules, you can re-send it or give it to someone, just don't post it publicly or mass distribute it.

Thanks, Martin!


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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6243 on: 30/11/2009 06:19:57 »


semen is suppose [sic] to go out


You have evidence for this?


Okay, guys... can we not argue the purpose of semen? We should all know that semen is meant for procreation


exponent, why are you trying to stifle a legitimate question? Or are you just wanting to move more rapidly on to your agenda? Sure, we all know about the procreation ABC's. Since 5th grade. But what about non-procreation? It's not that obvious that non-procreative sexual activity (the largest part by far) absolutely requires semen emission. Far from it!


"dry orgasm"...certainly isn't a cure


Why not? A male wishes to father *5 babies? OK, = 5 (successful) emissions of semen, = 5 POIS episodes, and then for the lifetime remainder: switch to non-emission sex!........Amazing how quickly you dismiss something that, although it would take some Western tweaking and adjustment in thinking, has worked for thousands of years in the East!

If we don't find a universal chemical cure, it might be the only cure!


The number *5 is simplified. Obviously it can take a number of attempts to successfully impregnate. The point of the exercise is proportional sex: procreative sex vs non-procreative sex over a lifetime.
« Last Edit: 30/11/2009 06:22:19 by demografx »

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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6244 on: 30/11/2009 08:18:27 »


As to your two other questions....[what percentage of users have these side effects and at what dose? and how many patients were in this study group?], I have no idea but you can always try contacting the authors of the website.....[emphasis mine - demo]


Z_one, since you are putting forth these warnings IN BOLD LETTERS AND UNDERLINED,


SEVERE side effects may occur when using Testosterone Patch:


I would suggest that it's your responsibility - not ours - to check these very, very basic facts before you publish "dire warnings" about testosterone patches. A treatment that could save lives. As it did mine.

Please consider this next time posting. Thanks.


My responsibility? I am not even the one putting T patches....  Moreover I have posted the whole link....what more do you want?

It seems every time someone has an opposite view,,,,a bunch of people jump on him trying to shut him up!

First you attack me now you're attacking exponent! Who's next?

I am starting to wonder whether the rules on this forum go hand in hand with so called freedom of speech and democracy......

And as I speak Iam already expecting a retaliation,,,,,very encouraging indeed!,,,, [8D]


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Offline Z_one

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6245 on: 30/11/2009 13:19:37 »

When you say your T was low...do you mean close to lower normal range or below lower normal range?


,,,besides you forgot to answer one of my questions.

Thx.

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Offline Mr_Canadian

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6246 on: 30/11/2009 16:24:54 »
I have another question for everyone - does anyone experience "derealization" during a POIS episode?

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6247 on: 30/11/2009 19:55:14 »
Z_one, no sir, this is not retaliation, there are no attacks here, and no one is silenced here (what you refer to as "shut them up"), with the one exception of spammers, i. e., advertisers.

There is really no need to be defensive.

As moderator, I simply request that readers here have a fair and balanced view. Please re-read my words!  I never suggested to not show side effects of testosterone, but the way it's highlighted comes across as "dire warnings.", i. e., unnecessarily negative. And the 2 questions you didn't know the answer to are questions that were asked of you to back up your "dire warnings".

You say you posted drugs.com verbatim, but I pointed out that you didn't; you  omitted a big clarifier: that many people experience no side effects!

Democracy? Free speech? Please! Expect to be challenged if the facts are not portrayed accurately.

Z_one, I thank you and I very much appreciate your participation here. And I do apologize if my tone has come across as harsh at times. It is not intentional.
« Last Edit: 30/11/2009 21:03:04 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6248 on: 30/11/2009 20:43:02 »

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« Last Edit: 30/11/2009 20:54:30 by demografx »

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Offline demografx

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Re: Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)
« Reply #6249 on: 30/11/2009 20:49:32 »


I have another question for everyone - does anyone experience "derealization" during a POIS episode?


Yes, I have experienced it and, many others have reported the same. Here are some previous posts to look at:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=derealization+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=