[demografx]

Laurac, here are some previous forum discussions about naltrexone:
http://www.google.com/search?q=naltrexone+POIS+site:http://thenakedscientists.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

[exponent]

semen is suppose [sic] to go out

You have evidence for this?

Okay, guys... can we not argue the purpose of semen? We should all know that semen is meant for procreation, and that procreation and the resulting replication of genes is the most important thing to our bodies. If that were not the case then our bodies would simply shut off their sexual aspect instead of allowing us to orgasm to our detriment.
"dry orgasms" or whatever may be a useful tool in avoiding pois, but it certainly isn't a cure.

now I have a few questions. we all talk about our symptoms frequently, but I want to get some insight into how we all are when we feel our best, so we can find any other correlations.

when you're at your best (non pois):

are you more introverted or extroverted?

active or sedentary?

what is your stress level (judged on a scale 1 to 10)?

how often are you hungry?

what is your stool like? (tending towards diarrhea, constipation, or average)


I know these questions are pretty out there but I've been reading up on imbalances of the autonomic nervous system and I want to see if we relate in that way.

[demografx]

Waldinger's POIS paper now available by Private Message

Thanks to Martin (Martin88), we no longer have to use your regular email address to send you Dr. Waldinger's 2002 POIS paper!

We can enclose it now within a regular private message. Just send me a request for it and I'll get it right back to you.

To follow copyright rules, you can re-send it or give it to someone, just don't post it publicly or mass distribute it.

Thanks, Martin!

[demografx]

semen is suppose [sic] to go out

You have evidence for this?

Okay, guys... can we not argue the purpose of semen? We should all know that semen is meant for procreation

exponent, why are you trying to stifle a legitimate question? Or are you just wanting to move more rapidly on to your agenda? Sure, we all know about the procreation ABC's. Since 5th grade. But what about non-procreation? It's not that obvious that non-procreative sexual activity (the largest part by far) absolutely requires semen emission. Far from it!

"dry orgasm"...certainly isn't a cure

Why not? A male wishes to father *5 babies? OK, = 5 (successful) emissions of semen, = 5 POIS episodes, and then for the lifetime remainder: switch to non-emission sex!........Amazing how quickly you dismiss something that, although it would take some Western tweaking and adjustment in thinking, has worked for thousands of years in the East!

If we don't find a universal chemical cure, it might be the only cure!


The number *5 is simplified. Obviously it can take a number of attempts to successfully impregnate. The point of the exercise is proportional sex: procreative sex vs non-procreative sex over a lifetime.

[Z_one]

As to your two other questions....[what percentage of users have these side effects and at what dose? and how many patients were in this study group?], I have no idea but you can always try contacting the authors of the website.....[emphasis mine - demo]

Z_one, since you are putting forth these warnings IN BOLD LETTERS AND UNDERLINED,

SEVERE side effects may occur when using Testosterone Patch:

I would suggest that it's your responsibility - not ours - to check these very, very basic facts before you publish "dire warnings" about testosterone patches. A treatment that could save lives. As it did mine.

Please consider this next time posting. Thanks.

My responsibility? I am not even the one putting T patches....  Moreover I have posted the whole link....what more do you want?

It seems every time someone has an opposite view,,,,a bunch of people jump on him trying to shut him up!

First you attack me now you're attacking exponent! Who's next?

I am starting to wonder whether the rules on this forum go hand in hand with so called freedom of speech and democracy......

And as I speak Iam already expecting a retaliation,,,,,very encouraging indeed!,,,, [8D]

[Z_one]

When you say your T was low...do you mean close to lower normal range or below lower normal range?

,,,besides you forgot to answer one of my questions.

Thx.

[Mr_Canadian]

I have another question for everyone - does anyone experience "derealization" during a POIS episode?

[demografx]

Z_one, no sir, this is not retaliation, there are no attacks here, and no one is silenced here (what you refer to as "shut them up"), with the one exception of spammers, i. e., advertisers.

There is really no need to be defensive.

As moderator, I simply request that readers here have a fair and balanced view. Please re-read my words!  I never suggested to not show side effects of testosterone, but the way it's highlighted comes across as "dire warnings.", i. e., unnecessarily negative. And the 2 questions you didn't know the answer to are questions that were asked of you to back up your "dire warnings".

You say you posted drugs.com verbatim, but I pointed out that you didn't; you  omitted a big clarifier: that many people experience no side effects!

Democracy? Free speech? Please! Expect to be challenged if the facts are not portrayed accurately.

Z_one, I thank you and I very much appreciate your participation here. And I do apologize if my tone has come across as harsh at times. It is not intentional.

[demografx]

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[demografx]

I have another question for everyone - does anyone experience "derealization" during a POIS episode?

Yes, I have experienced it and, many others have reported the same. Here are some previous posts to look at:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=derealization+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

[demografx]

When you say your T was low...do you mean close to lower normal range or below lower normal range?

I spent the last hour searching old posts for the comprehensives, couldn't find them so here's an older post that covers "free T", but I had many hormones tested, including LH, total T, bioavailable T, and much more.

Below, from a previous post of mine, are the results of some free-T results after wearing T-patches for 6 weeks. I have more recent results, which to me aren't important because the patches are working very nicely on my POIS.


SOME TESTOSTERONE TESTING

Someone here asked me privately for my "free testosterone" testing results (much more was tested), so I thought I'd post it in case anyone else is interested:


Before POIS treatment:
(December 2, '08)
                                    reference range

%FREE T            1.47 %           1.5 - 2.2
FREE T             24.4 pg/mL        35 - 155


After POIS treatment:
(March 2, '09 after about 6 weeks of wearing T-patches)


%FREE T             1.45 %             1.5 - 2.2
FREE T              37.0 pg/mL          35 - 155


Free T jumped 50%, from 24.4 to 37.0.

Endocrinologist expects the numbers to keep increasing through June. If they don't, he'll switch me from Androderm T-patches 10mg daily to a pump gel to increase my testosterone.

My endo, who has a very good reputation in the field, agreed with my theory, that even when the T-patches brought me into normal T range and I saw improvement, a 50% increase in T-patches would help POIS dramatically and it did.

[Pablo445]

I have another question for everyone - does anyone experience "derealization" during a POIS episode?

Yes, I have experienced it and, many others have reported the same. Here are some previous posts to look at:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=derealization+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I read through several posts and I still do not quite get what "derealization" means...  A sense that everything real seems fake?  Or a sense that "I" am outside of reality? Or a sense of confusion - cannot grasp what is really going on around me? A sense that I am not the "real me" anymore? What would be a simple definition? Would the "real" definition please stand up  (drum roll)...

[Dean93]

are you more introverted or extroverted?

Definitely extroverted

active or sedentary?

Active

what is your stress level (judged on a scale 1 to 10)?

Almost non-existent, unless under rare exceptional circumstances 

how often are you hungry?

Normally

what is your stool like? (tending towards diarrhea, constipation, or average)

Since I don't know, I'll say average

[Dean93]

I have another question for everyone - does anyone experience "derealization" during a POIS episode?

Yes, I have experienced it and, many others have reported the same. Here are some previous posts to look at:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=derealization+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I read through several posts and I still do not quite get what "derealization" means...  A sense that everything real seems fake?  Or a sense that "I" am outside of reality? Or a sense of confusion - cannot grasp what is really going on around me? A sense that I am not the "real me" anymore? What would be a simple definition? Would the "real" definition please stand up  (drum roll)...

Derealization was one of my strongest symptoms, that was, before I took relora. To be clear, I took it for a period of time, stopped taking it, and I still don't experience it.

For me, derealization is synonymous with "brain fog", but not with lack of concentration or even confusion. For me, it is the isolated symptom of really feeling like you're in a fog. Some people describe is as having a veil covering their eyes or being behind a permanent pane of glass. I describe it as being completely detatched from the world around you, perhaps even your own body.

Here's an old post of mine that will help, I hope.

Throughout all the years that I've had POIS it has changed a lot. The most notable change is that I have a lot less brain fog. I think this happened after taking relora. After my brainfog-less POIS episode while on relora, I haven't had the same brain fog that I always had. When I say brain fog, I'm referring mostly to derealization. This "brain fog", to me, was like an actual "pseudo-physical" thing, like an actual fog in my head, not just a loss of concentration. It is the thing that would make me pick up an actual physical object and say "Is this real?", "Is this actually there?". I felt entirely detached from the world around me, like i couldn't reach out and touch someone. That doesn't happen anymore, but I think it has kind of screwed up my gauge of what is normal. Now out of POIS I don't know if I have just a little brainfog, or If that's just "baseline" for me. Things aren't completely clear, visually, to me, even out of POIS. The question I ask myself when holding an object now is "How close am I supposed to feel to this?"

Oh and by the way, I'm not claiming any of that to be a "real" definition, just trying to help you understand.

[Pablo445]

I have another question for everyone - does anyone experience "derealization" during a POIS episode?

Yes, I have experienced it and, many others have reported the same. Here are some previous posts to look at:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=derealization+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I read through several posts and I still do not quite get what "derealization" means...  A sense that everything real seems fake?  Or a sense that "I" am outside of reality? Or a sense of confusion - cannot grasp what is really going on around me? A sense that I am not the "real me" anymore? What would be a simple definition? Would the "real" definition please stand up  (drum roll)...

Derealization was one of my strongest symptoms, that was, before I took relora. To be clear, I took it for a period of time, stopped taking it, an still don't experience it.

For me, derealization is synonymous with "brain fog", but not with lack of concentration or even confusion.For me, it is the isolated symptom of really feeling like you're in a fog. Some people describe is as having a veil covering their eyes or being behind a permanent pane of glass. I describe it as being completely detatched from the world around you, perhaps even your own body.

Here's an old post of mine that will help, I hope.

Throughout all the years that I've had POIS it has changed a lot. The most notable change is that I have a lot less brain fog. I think this happened after taking relora. After my brainfog-less POIS episode while on relora, I haven't had the same brain fog that I always had. When I say brain fog, I'm referring mostly to derealization. This "brain fog", to me, was like an actual "pseudo-physical" thing, like an actual fog in my head, not just a loss of concentration. It is the thing that would make me pick up an actual physical object and say "Is this real?", "Is this actually there?". I felt entirely detached from the world around me, like i couldn't reach out and touch someone. That doesn't happen anymore, but I think it has kind of screwed up my gauge of what is normal. Now out of POIS I don't know if I have just a little brainfog, or If that's just "baseline" for me. Things aren't completely clear, visually, to me, even out of POIS. The question I ask myself when holding an object now is "How close am I supposed to feel to this?"

Oh and by the way, I'm not claiming any of that to be a "real" definition, just trying to help you understand.

I guess the closest feeling I have is the sense that "I am stuck in a giant thick spiderweb" but at no time do I actually believe I am in a spider web - it's just a anxiety filled impression of lacking some oxygen, fuzzy vision and feeling oppressed. If that corresponds to derealization then: Yes I do. To me those are all signs of adrenal exhaustion.

[Limejuice]

I received blood work test results for Testosterone today:

Test        Actual    Reference Range
Total T       950       300 - 900
Free T         20        5 - 25


As shown, I'm average or above average in both tests.  The doctor would not prescribe medication for either test and I probably wouldn't want them to.

Back to the drawing board.

[EDS]

EDS, how does the supplemented T continue to work for you?  At the same success as before, better, or worst?  Thanks!

Quote from: Limejuice on 12/11/2009 22:12:29
I understand.

I'm reluctant to push to try T for one reason - I don't want to jeopardize my natural production of T.  If supplemented T is not the answer to POIS for me, and in testing this disrupted the natural levels for the rest of my life, I would be....upset.

With only you, Demo, cured that risk is too high for me.  If most the forum was cured with T that's a different story.



Make that two of us now! I can safely say that T treatments (5 mg patches) are helping me. I will estimate 60% because it seems to have shortened my recovery time to about half and the time I'm in POIS is less severe. As I stated almost three months ago that I would be happy to see a 5% or 10% improvement - I am seeing far better than that!

I went from 3-4 days of full blown POIS to a day or two. What is strange is that my 1st day, before T treatment, wasn't too bad; now it is my worst day, but day two is much better; which WAS my worst day. So it seems to have accelerated the time for POIS to "kick-in" and also go away. The whole nightmarish process has been moved up by a couple of days.

What does this mean? Is it just the addition of T that is causing improvement? Or is the additional T affecting some other function that speeds up the time to reach full POIS symptoms and recovery?

I don't know what is happening, of course, but I'm sure glad it is!!!!! After over 30 years of this plague, this is the first time I have tried anything that helped!! Thanks Demo!! POIS is getting cross wired... interupted... or something because it is definitely different than it has ever been after "O" for me.

Thanks to everyone involved in this forum! If we keep it up, I know we'll beat this thing!!

Thanks for asking LJ!

Not much has changed from the post above on 12/11/09. I still have improvement from the way it used to be. As stated above, I'm saying 60% improvement mostly based on the time it takes for the process/illness to improve. Maybe a larger dose would move that number higher.... I don't know yet. I'm just thrilled that something has helped, because for the last 30 years I had to just wait four days for the symptoms to subside.

[demografx]

I read through several posts and I still do not quite get what "derealization" means...

Maybe this will better explain?
Derealization, definition from wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derealization

[GoingCrazy]

Yes, I had that feeling of derealization.  It pretty much went away as of now, but I had it for about a year straight.  Now I am limiting O'ing down to once every 2 weeks, ever since last year when I had it it has definitely gotten better.  I'm pretty sure I don't even have it anymore.

[Mr_Canadian]

Goingcrazy - so your derealization lasted 24/7 for a year?