[hazey]

I have an appointment with a supposedly very good Dr who specializes in Thyroid/Adrenal, hormones and anti-aging. I want to get the below tests done prior to my consultation.

Can anyone think of anything else I should be getting tested and when would be best to have the collection done. Day 1, Day 2 after O

Thanks.

Blood Test
===========
Total+Free/Bio Testosterone
LH+FSH
Estradiol(E2)
SHBG
Prolactin
DHEA
Costisol
IGF-1
Progetesterone
Dht,
TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3
Magnesium

Saliva Test
===========
Cortisol (Morning, noon, evening, night)
Estriol, Estradiol, Eestrone,
Progesterone
Testosterone
DHEA

Neurotransmitter Test
=====================
Serotonin
Acetylcholine
Dopamine
GABA
Histamine

[GoingCrazy]

Here is something I have not seen discussed.... ORAL health, mine is very bad for many years.... and I always wonder if that might be part of this whole thing?

No teeth cleaning for 20+ yrs! I have bad breathe, and my mouth is always pasty....

Thoughts?

PS.

LOL, no teeth cleaning for 20 + years? Yeah I wonder if that has something to do with it too, so I've been never missing a brush because I always wake up with my mouth tasting literally like crap.  Just has to do with overall health, and i've noticed that I do have a worse smelling mouth when I do "O".  but my oral health has been getting better i suggest you brush twice a day.

Yeah its not that I do not brush! :-) I brush at least 2 times a day, just no dentist cleanings.... I always wonder if its the bacteria or something other causing issues...

PS.

Lol thanks for that clarification.  I know what you mean though, oral bacteria.  I wake up and clean out my mouth in the morning, every morning, by spitting and gargling.  Yet I too wonder if it has anything to do with it.

[GoingCrazy]

Another awkward statement:

I'm actually contemplating, I really want this to get over with, I'm just thinking about going to the hospital, telling them to do brain surgery on me, and just get a swab of the "whatever" it is in the back of my head, and rule out any weird disease.  Isn't there some procedure where they can do that??  Otherwise we can generally narrow it down to hormones and neurotransmitters.  I remember the day I got POIS and it literally felt that something went into my head suddenly, or some sudden shift or neurotransmitters etc.. anybody else experience a sudden first-time POIS?

Telling them to do brain surgery on you?  I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I don't see how this would work, or how it would help you.

Like some procedure I saw on House where they opened a guys skull and swabbed it with a cuetip to check for infection, etc.  I'm pretty sure MRI's cannot find evidence of bacterial/viral infestation, so that is why I really want to make sure it's nothing I can take a pill to cure.  And I guess the only way to do it would be that procedure.  I know it sounds weird but I mean I just want to get over this whole thing and I am willing to do anything.

[demografx]

I can't imagine a brain surgeon doing surgery without definitive recognized illness, e.g., brain cancer, tumor, etc.

[demografx]

Hazey, my endocrinologist (one opinion, but from a well respected endo) believes blood, not saliva, is the only reliable measure, and that neurotransmitter testing is not yet reliable.

[Mr_Canadian]

Goingcrazy - have you been tested for Lyme disease?

[GoingCrazy]

Goingcrazy - have you been tested for Lyme disease?

Yes, I was tested once a few years ago, I'm pretty sure at the time I was experiencing POIS symptoms, but not 100% sure.  I would like to be tested again.

I can't imagine a brain surgeon doing surgery without definitive recognized illness, e.g., brain cancer, tumor, etc.

Haha yes he would probably be asking himself questions like what do I do next.



Has anybody had a CT scan to check for adrenal tumors, etc.?

[prism]

goingcrazy,
im sure you have been posting all your progress along the way but can you sum up all the responses/views you have had from GPs and list all the therapies you have tried,
cheers

[GoingCrazy]

goingcrazy,
im sure you have been posting all your progress along the way but can you sum up all the responses/views you have had from GPs and list all the therapies you have tried,
cheers

Yes.  The story of my POIS............

       I was sitting on my chair watching T.V. one day when I felt something "enter my head" or a sudden shift of chemistry.  I felt immediately tired and light headed, and angry for no reason.  I believe this shift was caused by the stress coffee had on my body... Ever since than I got off the coffee, slowly gaining energy along the way, but still "O'ing". 
       I went to the doctor and he immediately prescribed an antidepressant which I took one pill of and than tossed it away.
       Than one day about 2 years ago I finally noticed that these symptoms were no other than caused by orgasm.  I stopped "O'ing" everyday and I noticed that it made me feel a lot more like myself.  The first thing I really tried was probiotics ( I thought it was "candida" ,maybe some growth in my head? sounds crazy). 
I noticed that eating sugar and bread tremendously made me feel angry and tired, just bad.  I stopped eating most of that.  While trying probiotics, I was also trying relora.  It felt good but it also made me feel a bit too relaxed.  I haven't used relora in a while, but it was a good experience, overall beneficial.  I was taking garlic for "anti-candida" measures.  I also ordered Threelac and tried that for candida (if it was candida).  That did nothing at all.  I remember trying cranberry juice and thought that was a miracle cure.  But like demo or someone else said I think it is just the amount of sugar that is in it.
      Quite recently I went to get an MRI.  Immediately one of the things I noticed that while in the MRI machine I had instant blurry vision, it was a very weird experience.  They did a regular MRI and a circle of willis scan.  Everything came out fine.
      Right now I am just eating healthy, trying to go to bed and wake up at a normal time and for 8-9 hours, no oversleeping.  I'm also trying to be celibate which helps me a lot.  My last episode was last saturday which lasted for 2-3 days.
 
Hope thats all of it

[Mr_Canadian]

Goingcrazy - what sort of Lyme test did you have if you don't mind me asking?

What type of garlic did you take, and did it have any effect?

[CertainlyPOIS]

I have an appointment with a supposedly very good Dr who specializes in Thyroid/Adrenal, hormones and anti-aging. I want to get the below tests done prior to my consultation.

Can anyone think of anything else I should be getting tested and when would be best to have the collection done. Day 1, Day 2 after O

Thanks.

Blood Test
===========
Total+Free/Bio Testosterone
LH+FSH
Estradiol(E2)
SHBG
Prolactin
DHEA
Costisol
IGF-1
Progetesterone
Dht,
TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3
Magnesium

Saliva Test
===========
Cortisol (Morning, noon, evening, night)
Estriol, Estradiol, Eestrone,
Progesterone
Testosterone
DHEA

Neurotransmitter Test
=====================
Serotonin
Acetylcholine
Dopamine
GABA
Histamine

looks comprehensive, i have done adrenanline and crp with no good news and lots you are doing. you can try them if you think it might be important. If it is possible to test endorphins i will check that to because of bjims theory and it is one thing we know is released during orgasm.     

On when to test. 

I will test when you feel the worst between three days after pois. 
Do you feel hyper on day one of pois? if you do i will wait to second or third day.

[prism]

Goingcrazy,
Presumably then, by giving you antidepressants, the GP believes the problem is a psychological one, especially since nothing was shown on any MRI?

If I were you I'd
a) go back to a GP with that list above in CCconfucious/Hazey post.
Talk about your situation with the doctor (how desperate you are) and ask to be tested for all of thoses listed.

b) Go to a nutritionist to really knuckle down and fine tune your diet because as you say it is effecting your health. A nutritionist will know far more than you think.

c) start physically improving your body by finding a psycho/physical therapy that suits you.

Because my POIS was caused by a traumatic distance childhood memory (this came to light after my muscles/posture started to be opened up/corrected), your previous post regarding the brain surgery for some reason made me think of that Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet movie 'Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind', where they had a precedure to zap memories from the mind. If only that was available in real life, it wouldnt taken me 3 years of hard work to get over it!

[GoingCrazy]

Daveyboy, you're saying your POIS was caused by a traumatic memory?  And you got over POIS by getting over that memory?  How did you do it?

[hazey]

Ive heard about this too, that POIS could just be a automatic stress response where orgasm is associated with some past stressfull event.
anyone got any info on this? Like how to pin point and get over it

[prism]

Probably best to read my old posts for my story/opinions- start on pg265 if you're interested. sorry for keep repeating the same thing!


Actually, what you asked does bring me nicely to a subject I wanted to talk about. Hope it doesnt annoy demo too much!, but I never did explain myself too fully why I think the writings Wilhelm Reich, in my opinon, applies to POIS.

Take from this what you will but hopefully your'll find it quite interesting
I particularly found it interesting because I discovered his work AFTER I had already figured out that a childhood trauma was causing my POIS.


Wilheim Reich was a physician and psychoanalyst and a protege of Sigmund Freud.

He agreed with Freud that sexual development was the origin of ill health and mental illness.

They both believed that most psychological states were dictated by unconscious processes, that infant sexuality develops early but can be repressed, and that this has important consequences for their health. As sexual repression was the cause of the neuroses and ill health, the best cure would be to have an active, guilt-free sex life.

Reich had a theory called ‘body armouring’. He argued that unreleased psychosexual energy could produce actual physical blocks within muscles and organs, and that these act as a ‘body armour’ preventing the release of the energy. Although most didnt know it, muscles remain rigid and tense with this inhibited libido. An orgasm was one way to break through the armour. These ideas developed into a general theory of the importance of a healthy sex life to overall well-being, a theory compatible with Freud's views.

His idea was that the orgasm was not simply a device to aid recreation, but was the body's emotional energy regulator. The healthier the orgasm, the more energy was released, meaning that less was available to create neurotic states. Reich called the ability to release sufficient energy during orgasm ‘orgastic potency’, something that very few individuals could achieve, he argued, because of society's sexual oppression or upbringing. A man or woman without orgastic potency was in a constant state of tension, developing a body armour to keep it in. The outer rigidity and inner anxiety is the state of neurosis, leading to hate, sadism, greed, and at a political level, fascism and antisemitism.

Reich became more interested in his patients' physical responses during his therapy sessions, he began to treat patients outside the limits of psychoanalysis's restrictions, though well within the scope of general medicine. He began to sit next to his patients, rather than behind them, in order to make stronger 'contact.' He started touching them, to both increase awareness of tension and contraction and to relieve it directly. He would ask his male patients to undress down to their shorts, and sometimes to undress entirely, and his female patients down to their underclothes. He began talking to them, answering their questions, rather than the stock, "Why do you ask?" analyst's reponse.

From a psychoanalytic point of view, this undermined the position of neutrality. The analyst is meant to be a blank screen onto which the patient projects his old desires, his loves, his hates, his neurosis, a process known as transference. Reich wrote that the psychoanalytic taboos reinforced the neurotic taboos of the patient. He slowly broke away from them, writing that he wanted his patients to see him as human. He would press hard on their 'body armour', his thumb or the palm of his hand pressing on their jaws, necks, chests, backs, or thighs, aiming to dissolve their muscular, and thereby characterological, rigidity. He wanted to see their movements soften, their breathing ease.

This dissolution of the ‘body armour’ also brought back the repressed memory of the childhood situation that had caused the repression, he wrote. If the session worked as intended, he wrote that he could see waves of pleasure move through their bodies, a series of spontaneous, involuntary movements.

Reich called these the ‘orgasm reflex’. The two goals of Reichian therapy became the attainment of this orgasm reflex during therapy, and orgastic potency during intercourse.

Reich was all about reuniting the mind and body:
"The body's outward appearance is an accurate reflection of what's happening inside." Reich said.

Reich wanted a full-body emotional response to life. 'If you cover yourself up, may deaden pain, but also rob yourself of full joy.'
When someone inhibits an impulse they feel tension. Inhibited libido is tense muscles, sexual charm is relaxed muscles.

Reich described the 'Functions of muscular armour':

-Keeps potentially explosive emotions in
-Wards off emotions of others.
-Reich noticed men have trouble taking away armour because they are so accustomed to suppressing feelings and emotions.
-An armoured person does not feel their armour as such. Reich believed that mind-body work is necessary for people to rid themselves of this armor.
- Body armour and character armour are essentially the same. Their function is trying to protect yourself against the pain of notexpressing things that society says you may not express. Muscular armour is character armor expressed in body, muscular rigidity.
- Armouring is the sum total of the muscular attitudes which a person develops as a defense against the breakthrough of emotions, especially anxity, rage, sexual excitation. Character armour is the sum total of all the years of the muscular attituded that have also been incorporated in the person’s character.

Character armour can be reflected in life patterns.
Karen Horney, reflecting on Reich’s work, noted that people may arrange their lives to fit their character armour. Thus a severely introverted person may find an apartment in a building that is so configured that he or she need not meet or interact with neighbours, and shop at impersonal stores where minimal contact with others is necessary.

Ok, fine, but how does this help anyone with POIS?

There’s now lots of Neo-Reichian therapies such as Alexander Technique, Rolfing and Feldenekreis. (sorry)I promise this is the last time i'll mention these therapies!! but i used were alexander technique and reflexology.

In my case, as my posture improved, it became obvious to me after 6 months that i was the memory of the raw pain of an operation to have a testicle lowered that was causing the POIS- repressed memorys, for me, rose to the surface. As I came to terms with that memory of the raw pain I experienced as a child, in other words learnt to think of it without flinching, holding any part of my body, my posture and muscle structure changed dramatically and I started to release my muscles, eventually releasing the pois causing rigid muscles.

In Reich's case, he had to release the mental pain from his mum having an affair and his father dying, both when he was a kid. When he finally 'released' this mental anguish and came to terms with it his body physically changed for the better too.

but he didnt have POIS.
Ive got a real strong hunch that POIS is mainly testicle related. Maybe less on the sexual repression and more than the fact that testicles can be seen as being so hypersensitive to pain.
Not saying everybody needs to have the same operation as me to get POIS but, for me, it is too much of a coincidence that I experienced the virtually the identical symptoms as everybody else of this forum- 'classic' POIS for 10-15 years.

If its ok, Ive attached the post with Bizzy's theorys.
They interlink with my theory in a more scientific way- about the 'sticking receptors' from the testicle to the brain .
I am not a doctor or scientist but it seems VERY plausible to me- it felt so clear to me during my long recovery period AS WELL as what Reich describes as the orgasm reflex, waves, muscle rigidity etc.
I learnt that it is possible to change how these sticking receptors work.
(and would surely explain the low testosterone problem for many POIS sufferes too)

Has this group ever discussed the original incident of their POIS?

Like, did anyone's POIS here follow a specific event, like illness or stress, and then take off from there?

Actually yes, it started during a very stressful, traumatic period in my life.

i managed to figure out the main problem stemmed from the 'fear of pain' left from a childhood operation (undescended testicle lowered). I had to learn over come this.

I've attached some amazing old posts by Bizzy which I think are great and talk about the 'sticking receptors' from the testicle to the brain. It is possible to change how these receptors work.

Hi fellow POIS sufferers

Would you all post on whether you were victims of childhood abuse or trauma. I want to explore the possibility that childhood trauma maybe resposible for an adverse reaction to orgasm in later life.

( I will post about my 25 years of POIS sometime later )

 

I was physically abused (not sexual) as a child all the way into my teens. I thought that this may have been responsible for my depression and POIS.

Over the years I have formed the opinion that this prolonged affect is caused by 'sticking receptors' within the hypothalamus. When one has an orgasm there are hormonal and neuro-chemical changes within the hypothalamus. For example prolactin goes up and dopamine goes down. These changes in a specific area of the brain are probably responsibe for the post orgasmic fatigue in normal men. In POIS the brain chemistry of the hypothalamus fails to recover as it should. The person continues to feel fatigued and eventually starts to suffer from severe depression.
This is a condition that is not even recognized or known by the medical community. Research needs to be done to acknowledge its existance and cause. A protein that helps maintain receptor function within the hypothalamus maybe responsible for this illness.

In my mind theres little doubt that the POIS problem originates at the hypothalamus. A medication that helps better regulate the hypothalamus may provide excellent treatment.
What I have written here needs more research.

After full ejaculation or orgasm a signal is sent from the testicles to the hypothalamus for the release of GnRH. The GnRH hormone travels from the hypothalamus to the pituitary and stimulates gonadotropin release. Gonadotropins travel to the testicles and stimulate testosterone production. This system is known as the HPG axis ( hypothalmic-pituitary-gonadal axis ).
Maybe in POIS, after ejaculation, rather than the HPG axis, the HPA axis gets activated. The HPA axis ( hypothalmic-pituitary-adrenal axis ) is responsible for releasing stress hormones including cortisol. This would mean that the end result after ejaculation would be more stress rather than more testosterone.

Research needs to be done as to why this axis crossover occurs.
Do you see how the adrenals are downstream from the true source of the problem, which is the hypothalamus ?

[GoingCrazy]

istmebutwho, I also break out the more often I ejaculate.  Possibly some very bad hormonal imbalance we have?

[Defsync]

I have a few questions:

1) I've asked this before but I think I got limited responses so I'm going to re-word it differently:  Does anybody here NOT have acne?

2) When do you normally sleep and wake up? Do you dream?

3) Do you drink any stimulants?

4) Where do you feel POIS? I know some people cannot focus the pain, but for me it seems to be localized in the back of my head

1) no acne
2) i have spinal compression in my neck, causing 1/4 muscle contraction n numbness throughout my body. as you can imagine, it is difficult to sleep at all, without sleep meds, for which i take seroquel and flexeril. on days before i have to work, i take meds at 8pm est, fall asleep around 9 to 9:30, then wake up once during the night to use the restroom, then back to sleep, wake up at 4-5am, and have to turn from sleepin on back to sideways or face down to relieve compression on my spine at my neck, and fall asleep until 6am when i wake up for work
3)with my spinal thing caffeine can cause my muscles to almost lock and sever hypertension, so HELL NO i do not drink any stimulants
4)where do i feel POIS? lol. there is no "where". my POIS is severe mental fog, memory recall impairment, and cognitive dysfunction.

hope this helps.

[CertainlyPOIS]

I have a few questions:

1) I've asked this before but I think I got limited responses so I'm going to re-word it differently:  Does anybody here NOT have acne?

2) When do you normally sleep and wake up? Do you dream?

3) Do you drink any stimulants?

4) Where do you feel POIS? I know some people cannot focus the pain, but for me it seems to be localized in the back of my head

1) no acne
2) i have spinal compression in my neck, causing 1/4 muscle contraction n numbness throughout my body. as you can imagine, it is difficult to sleep at all, without sleep meds, for which i take seroquel and flexeril. on days before i have to work, i take meds at 8pm est, fall asleep around 9 to 9:30, then wake up once during the night to use the restroom, then back to sleep, wake up at 4-5am, and have to turn from sleepin on back to sideways or face down to relieve compression on my spine at my neck, and fall asleep until 6am when i wake up for work
3)with my spinal thing caffeine can cause my muscles to almost lock and sever hypertension, so HELL NO i do not drink any stimulants
4)where do i feel POIS? lol. there is no "where". my POIS is severe mental fog, memory recall impairment, and cognitive dysfunction.

hope this helps.

does refixil gelp reduce NE.

[demografx]

Hope it doesn't annoy demo too much!, but I never did explain myself too fully why I think the writings Wilhelm Reich, in my opinon, applies to POIS.

Nope, not annoyed at all. I appreciate your fleshing out the argument, actually.

OK, I don't know if this supports your argument or not, I had an undescended testicle corrected (possibly at birth) - and recall no trauma (but I suppose that it's possible).

My 30+ years of agonizing POIS has been hugely reversed by TRT, testosterone replacement therapy, a daily dose of 15mg. In addition, I think the stimulant meds I take help.

POIS is usually relieved about 90%.

[prism]

(I might be wrong but)
dont the testicles regulate the testosterone levels?

I definitely think I have suffered from low testosterone levels.
The reason I think this is simply in my appearance and energy levels.
Am I not 'manly' looking at all. Im 30 and still cant grow a proper beard and was one of the last to shave in my group at school.
I look really young (not necessarily in a good way1).
The students I live with seriously cant believe Im 30 and swear I am 24.
I get alot of aches and pain doing gym stuff and Ive read low testosterone levels may connect with that.
But even if testosterone levels are low in my opinion in my case its a symptom not a cause.

I have only been to the GPs twice about POIS.
The first doctor said its simply unwanted nerves being used during an orgasm and nothing to worry about...be on your way type of thing..
The second doctor about a year later took a blood test. When I went back he said looks like you've had a virus...be on your way goodbye!-didnt wanna know..
since my outside therapies were giving me some relief I didnt bother sitting and arguing with him.