[martin88]

Hi to new comers and others.
A few years ago, i saw a naturopathic doctor. My wife had cancer and she went to see him to have a complementary treatment. Since i was there with her i decided to try a consultation for myself. This guy gave me a list of expensive tests (private lab) that i wanted to do at the begining but i changed my mind. I'm ready to pay for something useful but in this case i wasn't sure enough.
Michael8028 ,
You're probably a good guy and thank you for the information, but do you realize your posts looks like advertisements ?!

Counterpoints ,
About hosting you can send me all your code by mail if you want. My time is very limited but i'll try some free web hosts.

[girlwind]

Martin 88 (and anyone else interested)-- I've been researching labs for a couple days and found one that looks good to me.
It's called Bio Health Diagnostics (in San Diego). It's run by a naturopathic doctor (William Timmins) who has 20 years
experience working with chronic health issues, with the emphasis on getting to THE CAUSE. They have a whole slough of
adrenal/cortisol/hormonal saliva tests, as well as tests for intestinal parasites, candida, etc. 

Check it out at   http://www.biodia.com/index.html

Maybe this doctor could read up on our forum and give us his opinion on how to proceed?  Would it be okay if I forward him the
link and let him read all about us?

[sparx]

I think that my post orgasm mental fog it is produced by something anoying in my digestive system. Imagine something inside your stomach or intestines for example, something that cannot manifest itself like pain, itching, cold, warm, etc, but it can send a singal to the brain enough to produce mental fog and scalp tension. And only relief will come once I evacuate enough.

hi solution,

I think it's possible your theory about intestinal problems might be at least partially correct, or may at least be a clue to the underlying causes of POIS.

It's also possible that the underlying causes of POIS lay elsewhere and could be masked by layers of, for example, neuroendocrine imbalance and feedback and possibly secondary disease caused by the stresses of suffering from POIS. In spite of the fact that so many here have endured POIS for years, I think it is still 'early days' in terms of coming up with a reliable diagnosis. For now I am assuming that we are all at risk of confusing primary with secondary symptoms and causes with effects.  Having said that, I'm very much in support of current efforts to enlist the help of an endocrinologist; that would be a great advance, and it wouldn't exclude other avenues of investigation (it might even open them up).

It does seem possible to me that forms of mental fog could result from a problem with the gut. I can recall relatively brief occasions in my life when gut problems have made it impossible to function effectively, partly due to being unable to concentrate properly. In my case, constipation, particularly if it continues for more than a couple of days, leads to a feeling of being uncomfortably bloated, which is not a sensation of pain, but a kind of tension that seems to interfere with clear perception and thinking. Being susceptible to anxiety, I've also noticed that my gut seems to react in unpredictable ways (for example I used to suffer from diarrhea in the 24 hours before having to board an aircraft). Stress seems to affect other mammals in similar ways as well (if you've ever tried taking domestic cats in a car to the vet, well ... sometimes things can get messy).

I can't say I've noticed any consistent relationship between POIS (esp. brain fog) and bowel movements. However, I do notice that sexual release does tend to leave me feeling pretty relaxed these days (in contrast to past experience where I would feel apprehensive or even annoyed / angry at having to endure at least few days of brain fog and other symptoms). Being relaxed, not worrying about things unnecessarily, particularly not worrying about whether my bowel is working, seems to give my gut the best chance of just doing its thing.

John21's advice about fibre is well worth taking note of IMHO. I'm a big fan of insoluble wheat bran in muesli; if I forget that then things don't go so well after a couple of days. But other than that I don't have any problems. I'll be getting some soluble fibre to see if that is effective too. Regularly getting some extra fibre in one's diet is essential IMHO.

Having read all of your posts in the past (and i just reviewed them again quickly), it looks to me like you are definitely suffering from POIS in terms of how it is currently being defined. So I hope you will continue reading and posting about your experiences and ideas. Without really knowing how many chronic POIS sufferers there are out there, I definitely have a feeling of kinship with you and many others here (because it seems quite clear to me that unless one has experienced POIS symptoms there is no way to really grasp how difficult they can be). It might take a while but I'm very confident that we will be able to look back at this condition in the light of understanding its causes and look forward to life that is not dominated by POIS.

Good luck  []

[sparx]

Since early teens (now 42) I've been experiencing post-orgasm 'brain fog'

Have you noticed any change in the intensity of the symptoms from when you were in your teens to now?  I am wondering if its possible to outgrow this horrible illness.  It is truly driving me mad.

hi pyropeach,

Short answer is 'yes' and 'no'. Not very helpful, so let me elaborate a bit.

In so far as I recall the experience in my teens I'd say there have been some very remarkable improvements in my quality of life since then, most of which have developed over the past 10 years or so.

Memories of fog in my 20s and early 30s are of a reliably intense wall of condensed soup (a head state that seemed more like an impenetrable solid rather than a shifting cloud of vapor) that lasted at least 3 days and often longer.

These days the potential for intense, multi-day brain fog is still there and it does clobber me from time to time, but as I tried to explain in the second part of that long post the other day, my emotional and mental state before, during and immediately after orgasm seems to determine intensity and duration.

Masturbation is almost a guarantee of multi-day fog, whereas if I genuinely 'make love' to my girlfriend, for whom I have genuine affection, and with the intention and focus on making it fun for her, rather than seeking to gratify myself, and I continue to hold those positive feelings after orgasm, then fog can be of negligible intensity and only remains noticeable for a short time (it can effectively disappear after sleeping for a few hours).

So the improvements are not from outgrowing POIS, but more from trying to understand what affects it and paying attention to what helps and cultivating that instead of what hurts. That can be difficult at times, especially in a relationship situation, as others here have described, but it can be managed (somehow I went through full-time uni with good passes and a girlfriend, but there were some tough times).

Complete celibacy (meaning no sexual activity at all for at least a week, or even two or three weeks from time to time) is also part of the routine these days. That can be a real challenge if you live with a touchy-feely partner. As POIS goes I guess I'm fortunate in that I haven't experienced NE so far in my life. There are some other activities that I try to maintain which seem to help. In brief they include 'insight' meditation, exercise (aerobic & weight-bearing) and acupuncture treatments once every 6 weeks or so.

cheers & good luck  []

[Michael8028]

Hi to new comers and others.
A few years ago, i saw a naturopathic doctor. My wife had cancer and she went to see him to have a complementary treatment. Since i was there with her i decided to try a consultation for myself. This guy gave me a list of expensive tests (private lab) that i wanted to do at the begining but i changed my mind. I'm ready to pay for something useful but in this case i wasn't sure enough.
Michael8028 ,
You're probably a good guy and thank you for the information, but do you realize your posts looks like advertisements ?!

Counterpoints ,
Please, since you are in contact with scientific people at your work, perhaps you know about these kind of labs. What do you think ? I'm very interested but sceptical, or suspicious is a better term.

About hosting you can send me all your code by mail if you want. My time is very limited but i'll try some free web hosts.

I do apologise if my posts do come across as advertisements as that wasnt my intention.

My intention was too hopefully influence people too have their hormones tested as
a fellow POIS suffer for 4-5 years most of my hormones that I have had tested
have been imbalanced some either high or low which drwas too the conclusion
that other fellow POIS sufferers probably have imbalanced hormones as well.

In me recommending ZRT, Geneva and Nutra these 3 labs are known as the top 5 testing
labs worldwide for their reliabilty, quick service and accuracy from my research
and from my friends experiences from testing.

You do not need too have the tests done here if you can influence
your own doctor too have the test done for you.

[Michael8028]

Here is a list of all the hormones at healthy optimal ranges
recommended by Life Extension:

http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/blood_testing_01.htm

Most of my hormones except Estradiol (E2) are out of the optimal range.

If you do get a hormone test done and your practitioners are not helpful
you can compare your results above.

[martin88]

Welcome Martin, Sparx and Michael.

Please keep us informed about your gluten free diet. Not easy to do but you may have good results. In the past i have had strange nervous symptoms (strong nerve pain in the heart and left arm when falling asleep). This has been totally cured by stopping wheat for one year. I realized this by chance, away from home when i was out for holidays with the change of food.

Maybe this doctor could read up on our forum and give us his opinion on how to proceed?  Would it be okay if I forward him the
link and let him read all about us?

Sure, we have never enough practionners , doctors in this forum. In fact we don't have even one for now ! My question is why don't conventional doctors do saliva tests and more hormone tests. They say all is ok with hormones (in my case) . I don't understand. Thank you for the link. Getting to the cause sounds good to me because hormonal replacement may be a temporary solution.
     
 

[Counterpoints]

pyropeach: there definitely is hope for you to "grow out of this".  Obviously the people here are the ones who still struggle with it.  There have been cases of complete POIS recovery.  Unfortunately, once someone recovers they probably don't feel compelled to help others (anyone who recovers has to promise to let us know all about it! ).

This condition seems to affect everyone somewhat differently, and the symptoms vary rather greatly in their duration.

For me, things have definitely gotten better with time.  In fact, this last year I was close to 100% recovery.  I still no longer suffer from brain fog (on most occasions), and I know how to remedy that symptom in the case that I do.  The other symptoms have returned somewhat -- I would describe them as a feeling of being in great withdrawal -- but they are also improving.

One thing I would recommend is not to let go when you are feeling desperate.  Eat properly, get a good amount of sleep, and exercise.  Push yourself to do these things, no matter how you feel. 

[demografx]

Maybe this doctor could read up on our forum and give us his opinion on how to proceed?  Would it be okay if I forward him the
link and let him read all about us?

GIRLWIND, thank you!  Of course, please send the link!

[demografx]

EXHAUSTION, FATIGUE

These are at the top of my list in contributing to POIS suffering. Am I reading correctly that Brain Fog may be worse than the exhaustion/fatigue?

[girlwind]

Here's the note I just sent to Dr William Timmins at Bio Health Diagnostics:

Dear Dr. Timmins--I'm writing to you regarding a forum that I've been part of on the issue of POIS (post orgasmic illness
syndrome). This is syndrome that seems to be more common in men, though there are also women (like me) who have it.
POIS is characterized by lingering exhaustion, brain fog, and flu-like symptoms that occur after orgasm and last up to 2
weeks. We are looking for someone to investigate this syndrome, and to help us identify the cause and find a cure. Can you
please help us? Most of us have been dismissed and disregarded by the doctors we've attempted to get help from. We need
to find a health prof. with an open mind and heart to help us solve the puzzle of this confounding exhausting syndrome.
The forum link and discussion is below.        thanks

[sparx]

pyropeach: there definitely is hope for you to "grow out of this".

That's an important point; best to be confident that whatever underlying combination of processes are causing POIS (which is itself just a transient process) will eventually cease. Being optimistic and anticipating life free from POIS is definitely an option we all have.

Also, the existence of a collaborating group, the internet, modern medical techniques, etc, dramatically improves the probability of asking the right questions and eventually finding effective treatments. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to remain hopeful.

[sparx]

There have been cases of complete POIS recovery.  Unfortunately, once someone recovers they probably don't feel compelled to help others (anyone who recovers has to promise to let us know all about it! ).

...  In fact, this last year I was close to 100% recovery.  I still no longer suffer from brain fog (on most occasions), and I know how to remedy that symptom in the case that I do.  The other symptoms have returned somewhat -- I would describe them as a feeling of being in great withdrawal -- but they are also improving.

Counterpoints: I'm pretty sure I'd remember if I had read about cases of complete recovery; are you assuming that these 100% recovery cases exist based on your own experience of near 100% recovery?

If so then intuitively I might agree, because there are times when my symptoms seem almost negligible. But from time to time I get clobbered badly for about a week. So I consider myself at risk and try to minimize the risk of a rogue episode impacting on 'normal' life.

I will consider myself 100% recovered when I know that having an orgasm has not, at any time in the previous few months (perhaps more like 6 to 12 months), resulted in any degree of brain fog, or persistant myalgia, dizziness, fatigue etc.

With all due respect to the technique you discovered for treating brain fog, I don't consider you to be free from POIS, and I doubt you are free from risk of a relapse. I think your technique could be an important clue to what intiates and sustains POIS. As you say;

The Orgasm Cure
...
If anything, perhaps this 'good orgasm' effect will help us learn more about the underlying cause of this problem: how could the *severe* symptoms that follow one orgasm be alleviated by a subsequent orgasm?

Also, I promise to post here if I find out about causes and/or a cure (or potential cure). I can't see myself leaving people to endure the debilitating effects of POIS unnecessarily.

good luck  []

[martin88]

One thing I am absolutely secure, when I have an orgasm I feel almost inmediately that something weird happens in my stomach. I feel like my organism whants to sweep stomach contents to intestine, and that get manifested with fatigue and bad mood. I think that may be some substance poured inside by the orgasm mechanism produce this effect. The process I described it last few days and it is acompanied by other common Pois symthoms that I think are result of that process. And not necessarly having diarrea, it is not my case, I start to get very constipated, wich it helps to get worse others symthomps, like to much fatigue, headaches, swollen nose, greasy nose, sweats, get hungry, specially need for sugar foods somethimes or big meals, little of acne, hard hair hard to comb, among many others.

I told you i feel nothing in my stomach after orgasm but this is false. In fact i'm always hungry after. I found something perhaps related to what you've said . I have a book (not scientific) about health where they say that sexual abstinence is necessary for people with "weak sympathetic nerves". These nerves are linked with orgasm, adrenals, stomach and many others parts of the body. Possibly the hormone ghrelin play a role (depletion) in the stomach after orgasm . Additionnaly this hormone has an action on the brain. (hypophysis).

Ghrelin
Filed under: Peptide Hormones — admin @ 12:14 pm
Ghrelin is a hormone produced in the human body. It is produced and secreted by the P/D1 cells lining the fundus of the stomach. Ghrelin is classified as a peptide hormone.
Secretion and Production

Ghrelin is produced and secreted by the P/D1 cells lining the fundus of the stomach. The fundus of the stomach is responsible for stimulating appetite, and ghrelin seems to have a role in appetite control. In fact, ghrelin levels are higher in individuals of average weight than in obese individuals. Additionally, ghrelin stimulates the secretion of somatotropin from the anterior pituitary gland.
Pharmacological Uses

Ghrelin was first discovered in 1999. While a synthetic human form of ghrelin is not yet available, it is being researched, and its effects are being tested. Some of the potential medical uses of a ghrelin drug include obesity treatment and use as substitute for somatropin, the synthetic form of somatotropin. Additionally, some studies have shown that ghrelin may have some effect on learning and memory.
 

I was telling you to masticate food because i saw in a medical book that it's good for acne. Also when i do this I feel my mind is more clear.

Again, my english is not very good because i'm french, i'm not always sure if i say the right thing. Sorry for that. I like this forum more than the french that's why i'm here .

[martin88]

Here's the note I just sent to Dr William Timmins at Bio Health Diagnostics:

Thanks Girlwind, I hope we'll have an answer, good or bad.

[Counterpoints]

Counterpoints: I'm pretty sure I'd remember if I had read about cases of complete recovery; are you assuming that these 100% recovery cases exist based on your own experience of near 100% recovery?

If so then intuitively I might agree, because there are times when my symptoms seem almost negligible. But from time to time I get clobbered badly for about a week. So I consider myself at risk and try to minimize the risk of a rogue episode impacting on 'normal' life.

I will consider myself 100% recovered when I know that having an orgasm has not, at any time in the previous few months (perhaps more like 6 to 12 months), resulted in any degree of brain fog, or persistant myalgia, dizziness, fatigue etc.

sparx, there have been cases of 100% recovery.  You will see references to this if you read this thread from the beginning again.  Someone (with POIS) was given Zoloft for depression.  Supposedly it did not cure the depression, but there was a 100% recovery from POIS.  Perhaps that is not a 'cure', but it is a 100% treatment, in any case, for that person.   There may have also been a case where someone used Wellbutrin and recovered from POIS.  (This would make sense if POIS were primarily caused by dopamine depletion). 

It's also important to note that everyone's 'POIS' seems a little bit different.  So treatment that works for one of us, may not work for the rest.  Obviously there is a good chance it will help though.


There was a 12 month period of time, where I was effectively OK.  There would be the occasional relapse (e.g. POIS for 1 day, once a month in this period), but I was at least 90% better. 



Demografx: Physical fatigue is not a problem for me post-orgasm.  Of course, I get somewhat sleepy and my muscles relax, but I think it is within the range of 'normal'.  Mental fatigue is a problem, though.  The "extreme withdrawal" feeling (anxiety, difficulty focusing, etc) together with "brain fog" is by far the worst aspect of POIS for me.

[solution]

Sparx, martin88. I will read about ghrelin, I think is very interesting.

[solution]

...This study demonstrates the acute effect of cigarette smoking on plasma concentrations of the novel orexigenic hormone ghrelin. The most interesting finding of this study was the unexpected increase in ghrelin concentrations shortly after smoking. The ...

[girlwind]

Hey guys!  Guess what!  I got a response from the people at the Bio Health Diagnostics Lab. Here it is. [] []

"This is a new one for us. Dr. (William) Timmins is no longer available for these matters, but I will be asking around my top clients to see if
anyone has ideas. Follow up with me in a week or so."    (Bryan Timmins)
 
By "top clients" he means health care professionals who use his laboratory services. Hopefully there is someone in that clientele pool that cares
enough to want to help us figure this out. Let's keep our fingers crossed!
 

[demografx]

Hey guys!  Guess what!  I got a response from the people at the Bio Health Diagnostics Lab. Here it is. [] []

"This is a new one for us. Dr. (William) Timmins is no longer available for these matters, but I will be asking around my top clients to see if
anyone has ideas. Follow up with me in a week or so."    (Bryan Timmins)
 
By "top clients" he means health care professionals who use his laboratory services. Hopefully there is someone in that clientele pool that cares
enough to want to help us figure this out. Let's keep our fingers crossed!
 

TERRIFIC, GIRLWIND! See? Your great spirit shines through!!!
Nice job!!!