[martin88]

Here is a "perhaps possible" hypothesis for pois : (I have had several like that in my life but i'm still ill !)

Maybe we have a problem with energy production linked with ATP :

I can find an usual pattern with my pois :

pois day 1 : feel very weak but a little bit of energy  -
bad sleep(not refreshing)

day 2 to 5 fatigue, no energy at all, all symptoms you know.
bad sleep

day 5 to 10 energy low but gradually increasing,
bad sleep

day 10 : kind of bulimia, eating more, feel nervous , energy sometimes high,
first night of refreshing sleep.

day 15 eating more, good sleep, feel energetic, a lot less nervous.

This pattern was very clear and repeated many times when i was younger. Now it's less clear (but stiil present) because i don't have the same amount of energy.

I think if we have more energy in the day for metabolism, sleep is better.
All the function/organs of the body need energy (digestive, brain, ...)
I usually feel very weak after meals (increased difficulty to speak to people)

Facts :
- semen contain ATP (and other nutrients for energy production) :
Adenosine triphosphate (ATP) is the main energy source used by the sperm flagellum to initiate and propagate forward motility
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=4558687

Magnesium is involved in energy production with ATP (see in google)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine_triphosphate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondria

- Supplement of magnesium was helping me a lot with fatigue in pois state, and is still helping me. I  prefer to take it in food however :

A good thing is to check the calcium / magnesium ratio in your diet.
According to some nutrition books you should take 2 calcium for 1 magnesium.
(eg. 800mg calcium / 400 mg magnesium)
-Vegetables often contain the right ratio (if there is not too much potassium in the fertilizers, i'm not sure of this)
-Some bottled water (not all, read the label).
-Milk : 115mg calcium for only 10mg magnesium ! (Maybe the reason why milk is not good for pois, however milk is rich in vitamin B2 involved in energy production ...)
-Cereals(not refined) usually contain a lot of magnesium, more than calcium
-Too much vitamin C decrease magnesium (i have a scientific reference)

- Apples are rich in  malic acid wich is also involved in energy production.


Perhaps there is a link between Levitra and ATP !  :

-inhibition of PDE5 enhances erectile function by increasing the amount of cGMP
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/levitra_cp.htm

-Thus, a nitric oxide-cGMP-dependent pathway controls mitochondrial biogenesis and body energy balance. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/299/5608/896

It would be interesting if we can act on energy, then we are touching a lot of functions in the body. Don't take all this as the truth, I have not enough medical background to make theories like this and interpret the studies we read online, but i'm trying to give a way to researchers according to my symptoms, eventually this can make sense for them.

[post-chronic]

RE raw eggs, if I remember correctly, lecithin granules are a better source of choline.

[bola bola]

Hello all. I'm new to this forum and yet another case of POIS. I'm 38, male, from the Netherlands. In my case, after orgasm I will feel extreme fatigue and will start sweating a lot, making me feel cold. My heart starts pounding and continues to do so for a few hours. My eyes feel very tired. I recognise the flew-like symptoms often spoken of. The next day I feel tired, my eyes still feel tired, and people sometimes tell me I look tired. I have difficulties concentrating. The third day usually symptoms are less and I start to function normally again. When I read some of the descriptions in this forum I guess you could describe my case as mild.

For a long time I actually did not even understand that there was something wrong, I just thought this was normal after orgasm, until my girlfriend made me see that this was not normal. We then found dr. Waldinger of the Leyenburg hospital in Den Haag, Netherlands. He examined me and confirmed that I have POIS.

I am now on Lexapro (unrelated) for depression. This has the side effect of greatly decreasing my libido. I don't really mind; it actually saves me a lot of time feeling bad and it's good not having to go through these annoying symptoms. I generally feel better physically. Of course in the long run I do not want to keep using anti-depressants.

[demografx]

Welcome bola bola! Very interesting that you met with Dr Waldinger. We have tried to reach him with no success. I wonder if there isn't a group at Leyenburg Hospital who might offer us some assistance? We are looking for someone, probably an endocrinologist, who would review all the posts here at this POIS Forum, perform some concrete testing and make recommendations how to go about finding a POIS cure! (My experience with Levitra has been very positive, with a 75% cure, but it is not known if it can be taken safely by those who do not have ED (erectile dysfunction)- DHEA has also worked for someone here)

I also wonder if a higher Levitra dose, e.g. 20mg, might be a 100% cure? But I am not enough of a danger-seeker to find out on my own!

In any case, bola bola, you are more than welcome here.

TO OTHER NEWBIES: I'm very sorry if I missed welcoming you, sometimes my attendance here is not as strong as at other times.

[mellivora]

Hi everyone,
I'm back home for a couple of days and look forward to properly catching up with and responding to the week's  postings this weekend.

[demografx]

Hi everyone,
I'm back home for a couple of days and look forward to properly catching up with and responding to the week's  postings this weekend.

Welcome back, mellivora

[John21 (OP)]

Good news.  [] [] []


I had an NE Monday night. It is now Day 6 and I have had absolutely no symptoms. I have been eating raw and cooked onions and garlic each day (a clove of garlic and approx 1cm slice of onion, + cooked onion and garlic with my supper) plus I have also been eating daily some flax oil/cottage cheese mixture (2tbsp oil + 4tbsp cc)["Budwig diet"]. My hypothesis is that following orgasm the pelvic area becomes inflamed somehow, so I am consuming foods purported to help with inflammation. I believe that my apparent success with soluble fiber was actually due to the garlic and onions I was consuming after reading about Candida.

POIS

I = inflammation ?

[girlwind]

Hey John21:

Congratulations on your success!

What percentage of vegetables to protein did you use with this diet?  And what percentage of the vegies are cooked
vs. raw? And is there any other animal food, as in meat, allowed? Or is it only dairy?

[demografx]

Good news.  [] [] []


I had an NE Monday night. It is now Day 6 and I have had absolutely no symptoms. I have been eating raw and cooked onions and garlic each day (a clove of garlic and approx 1cm slice of onion, + cooked onion and garlic with my supper) plus I have also been eating daily some flax oil/cottage cheese mixture (2tbsp oil + 4tbsp cc)["Budwig diet"]. My hypothesis is that following orgasm the pelvic area becomes inflamed somehow, so I am consuming foods purported to help with inflammation. I believe that my apparent success with soluble fiber was actually due to the garlic and onions I was consuming after reading about Candida.

POIS

I = inflammation ?

John, congratulations! I hope the treatment continues and continues successfully! Please keep us all posted!

[mellivora]

I had an NE Monday night. It is now Day 6 and I have had absolutely no symptoms. I have been eating raw and cooked onions and garlic each day (a clove of garlic and approx 1cm slice of onion, + cooked onion and garlic with my supper) plus I have also been eating daily some flax oil/cottage cheese mixture (2tbsp oil + 4tbsp cc)["Budwig diet"].

Wow John21 that’s great. I do hope it continues to work for you. I’m sure we’re all eating garlic cloves and onion and surfing the internet for Budwig diet details – I know I am! Like girlwind, I’d like to know how more about the other things you are eating and how rigidly you are adhering to the Budwig diet. I found this link http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer/Budwig.html and I see that with this diet one should avoid:

Sugar
All animal fats
All meats
Margarine
Butter
Salad dressing oils- exception extra virgin olive oil and balsamic vinegar or lemon
Foods high in Preservatives

Have you cut all those things out of your diet as well as taking your dose of cottage cheese and flax oil?

Throughout all my time with POIS (about 11 yrs) I have had probably two occasions when emissions resulted in almost no symptoms. I was never able to explain why. Perhaps, at the time I was by chance eating the right combination of foods. It’s very early days of course but I really hope these diet experiments amount to something for all of u. Please keep us posed John21, thanks.

I am increasingly interested in the possible link between candida and pois. I see that one symptom of candida is an itchy anus, I have from time to time over the last couple of years had this and also a couple of years ago had a skin fungal infection on my inner thighs which was treated with some antifungal cream (eventually, except for a minor reoccurrence a few months later, the cream  seems to have done the job although I also moved abroad for a time in that period which resulted in a slight change of diet (I’d say better diet) and climate so its difficult to say!). Anyway I’m wondering if anyone else here has suffered itchy anus or skin fungal infection which might be eveidence for a candida link.  What I would say though is that these yeast infection symptoms only cropped up for me in the last 2 1/2 years and I have had pois much longer. Perhaps if they are related to pois and they are caused by candida, maybe candida is more a side effect of pois than the underlying cause. I don’t know. I guess it would make sense for me to get tested for candida infection. In the meantime – garlic and onion!

[mellivora]

I received a reply from a member of the International Society for Sexual Medicine. I would have preferred to have emailed you all the reply rather than post it here in public but I don't see a way to easily email all members of a particular forum. Do you know if this is possible? In the meantime, here is the reply which I hope the author doesn't mind me posting on the forum.

"Thank you for your e-mail. I have seen men with this bothersome problem and I certainly acknowledge the considerable distress that the condition can cause. I will be seeing Marcel next week and will speak with him about his knowledge of current research and clinical practice in this field. As you probably know, his main focus is currently on premature ejaculation, but he should still know who is currently interested.

I will have a look at your forum, too."

It's good to have some interest from ISSM. I think its important to bare in mind that these are all busy folk with full-time jobs without putting in extra time into researching pois. I think our best bet at the moment is to keep reaching out to as many people as possible to raise awareness of the syndrome - the more people are talking about it and the more cases of pois that are found, the more likely it is that someone will be able to secure funding and time to research it.

[mellivora]

Quote from Girlwind:

I've been working on the text for my youtube PSA/film this weekend and borrowed a few phrases from you.
(I trust that you don't mind.)

Hi Girlwind - of course I don't mind you quoting from my letter - glad it helps. And I totally understand you wanting to focus on the film by yourself - I often prefer to work alone creating such things. Unfortunately I don't know any internet sources of free, public domain music off the top of my head but googling things like 'public domain music' seems to raise a few possibilities. I'll ask some friends who might know more about this.

Garlic and candida :
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=180587

Great link B_Jim, thanks

Welcome bola bola, glad you found us.

Just a reminder: I'll be away from home most of the next couple of weeks with only limited internet access but will post when I can.

[John21 (OP)]

Girlwind,

What percentage of vegetables to protein did you use with this diet?  And what percentage of the veggies are cooked
vs. raw? And is there any other animal food, as in meat, allowed? Or is it only dairy?

I'm not sure. I think my daily supper is typical: potatoes or rice + veggies + meat of some kind. I always cook my veggies, only now am I adding uncooked garlic and onions, and not really a lot of them, a clove of garlic, and a slice of onion. For meat I usually eat a soy/ground beef mixture, or sometimes fish, but that part of my diet is not new and could not explain my lack of symptoms this time. By the way, if anyone finds the raw garlic a little strong it can be chopped up fine and put on a cracker with Cheese Whiz, this seems to take some of the "bite" out of it, I actually like the taste of this.

I'm not sure which of these items is helping me, I know that "Budwig" stuff sounds a little dubious when you read the wild claims about it, and perhaps any benefit from it is not coming from whatever mechanism is purported to occur. Perhaps it is entirely the garlic and onion that is making the difference, at this point I have no idea.


Hopefully I am not premature in claiming my "success". I definitely had no symptoms this time and I am thrilled to report that, but in science nothing is proven with one positive result, there has to be repeated success. I dread the thought of getting someone's hopes up only to have them come crashing down, but I'm sure you'd all want me to speak up as soon as possible. Cross your fingers people.

[solution]

Me too I have started to add 1 clove of garlic (raw) a day to my diet. Greetings for John21.

[girlwind]

John 21--It sounds like it's not exactly the Budwig diet you're doing, as they are very strict about not using animal fats, meats,
processed foods (like Cheese Whiz) and sugar. So it must be that the garlic and onion that is the key for you. I have eaten a lot
of raw garlic over the years (to stave off chronic infections), but it hasn't made a difference with the POIS symptoms. I'll be curious
to hear how this onion  and garlic addition works for you in the long run.

[demografx]

Does this mean that I now have to go looking for smelly Levitra? [] 


[:-'(]  <<<<===== crying from onions


John21, kidding aside this is exciting. Fingers AND toes crossed that this replicates!

[demografx]

Googling onion and garlic and sex drive, a number of casual sources suggest a positive correlation. Could onion and garlic be a natural equivalent for the Levitra elements that help POIS?

[sparx]

thanks demografx for being such a good moderator. I feel like you help to keep us all feeling included and appreciated.

Awww  <blush>   thank you!  [] 

Does this mean that I now have to go looking for smelly Levitra? [] 


[:-'(]  <<<<===== crying from onions

yes demografx, great to know you are taking care of us! I'd offer to give you a big wet hairy kiss [:X] , (but only on the cheek since you've eaten that smelly stuff  [] ...  I hope no one else will be discouraged from helping out by the thought of a similar offer ... I'm not at all 'easy'[:I] you know)

Never heard of using garlic as an anti-inflamatory before but it appears many others on the net have (and do!). I've taken odourless garlic supplements for months at a time in the past too, but never really noticed an effect on POIS.

Isn't it some sulphur compound that gives raw, fresh garlic its odour? Maybe that's the active element; sulphur? Are we looking at an infection of some type? Bacteria (yeast has been mentioned, but a broad-spectrum antibiotic treatment for yeast might also wipe out another unsuspected infection).

What about toxoplasmosis; do GPs ever check for signs of chronic infection unless they are asked? As far as I know my blood screens have never included tests for infectons.

[demografx]

SPARX, thanks for the affection!

This onion/garlic route is such an unexpected twist to our mad search here for the RIGHT witches' brew! Why oh why couldn't I have found this Forum 20 years ago, when I was less burned out? Oh well, thankfully the next generation of POIS sufferers will have a much easier road, if not a 100% cure! History will look back at us like we look back at the days before aspirin-for-headaches!

[John21 (OP)]

Sparx:  toxoplasmosis

Interesting, I have never heard of this. I wonder if somehow a reaction post sexually allows something like Toxoplasma to take a foothold...