[girlwind]

How did toxoplasmosis get into this discussion?  It's a parasite that you get from exposure to cat feces.
What connection does it have to POIS?

[John21 (OP)]

Girlwind,
We're just brainstorming... if raw garlic or onion are eliminating my symptoms what could be the reason? It is believed by some that garlic can kill various types of invaders:
 http://medherb.com/Materia_Medica/Allium_sativum_-_Antibiotic_and_Immune_Properties.htm

[girlwind]

So this brings us back to the idea that there is an immune correlation to this condition, for some of us. If anti-pathogenic
herbs like garlic help relieve your symptoms (John 21), then one would assume that the core of the POIS problem in your case
has to do with restoring healthy immunity. This would definitely give the endocrine system a break from having to be on
guard and fighting whatever yeast, bacteria, microbe is on your case, and enable it to restore itself. (That's one theory.)

But the Cheese Whiz---I can't quite squeeze my mind around that. Is it really a food substance...  [] [] []

[demografx]

I once went into Theory-Land like this when I thought that a testosterone injection worked. It turned out to be a placebo effect. 2nd time it didn't work.  [] 

But I wish John21 the best that this turns out well!

[demografx]

INTERESTING FACTOID

Does everyone realize that John21 was the VERY FIRST PERSON TO POST AT THIS POIS FORUM?

February 18, 2007. A famous date for the history/medical books! (More interesting to me than the first moon landing date!)

[John21 (OP)]

Demografx, it was one of those moments of pure despair...I was so embarrassed to post about it.

Girlwind, I feel the same about processed foods, but I'll make exceptions if it helps me out of the POIS box.  []

[Guthrie]

John21, a quick question for you--how many days had you been eating the raw garlic prior to your POIS-free NE?

[John21 (OP)]

Jim, yes I eat bread everyday.

Guthrie, good question…if I recall correctly I was eating the raw clove of garlic and cooked onions daily for three days prior, and then added the onion on day 2 after the NE. 

[Guthrie]

John21--
So, if I understand you correctly, if it was the garlic that was the active agent, it was able to prevent POIS after only 3 days of building up in your system.  That's pretty quick--again, let us know if it continues to work.

[demografx]

But the Cheese Whiz---I can't quite squeeze my mind around that. Is it really a food substance...  [] [] []

Girlwind, maybe John21 just eats the packaging??

[imre1]

This is going to be my last post.

It might be benificial to have your hart rythm checked. My rythm seems to have been seriously disturbed following orgasm. Maybe then i wasn't suffering from a migraine, but of some sort of hart attack, which is a well documented occurence during sexual activity.

I am now on emconcor (beta blockers) and this has mostly solved all my problems.

[ollecrev]

Hi all,

I was happy to see this thread (even if a year late to it), as I've had very similar symptoms for a few years (I'm 32) and it's been very difficult.   After orgasm (which is most often from wet dreams at this point), I'll feel really unpleasant for several days, greatly fatigued, a weaker (I can't lift nearly as much in the gym, and have much lower endurance for cardiovascular activity), I often feel a non-localized "pain" like in my head and body that's really hard to describe - it feels like something's collapsing energetically inside.   I also have trouble focusing on work and generally engaging with people for any period of time (and I'm normally very social).   I've started to go to great lengths to avoid this, such as practicing techniques to avoid orgasms during sex (which makes my wife happy as well), avoiding masturbating, etc.  I've found doing that has other benefits to my well being, such as greatly improved strength, etc., except when I have an orgasm. After about a month or two of not having one though, I start to get a little out of balance and an orgasm is inevitable.

Now for me, I'm beginning to suspect it might be thyroid related (I think someone else here mentioned that they noticed it after treatment for high thyroid) - other folks in my family have low thyroid which began around my age, and initial bloodwork indicated high TSH levels - 5.3 (I don't know the units), which usually means the body's asking for more thyroid than it's getting.  My doctor said 5.5 is the usual level where you've got "low thyroid", but other doctors say 4.5 is a better threshold and that you need to take into account a lot more factors than just TSH level.     I've had depression off and on in my life, but that's also a symptom of low thyroid, FWIW.   When I described my symptoms after sex he didn't really take it very seriously - "oh yeah, men get tired".   Trying another doctor this week.

For my own remedies, I've found taking men's multivitamins helps the next day, and sometimes a big dose of vitamins followed by vigorous workout seems to "kick-start" my body out of it.   Seems counterintuitive, since the natural tendency is to be tired, but it's worked well for me.  I've wondered if I might be compensating for low thyroid by boosting my testosterone levels (which BTW the blood tests said were higher than average, which surprised me, since I expected them to be low).   I've also found eating eggs seems like it accelerates the recovery time by a day or two, though probably not so good for the cholesterol.   I'm going to try out the zinc suggestion today and see if I notice anything.

Anyway, I'm still reading through the forty-something pages of this thread, but it's been helpful.   I'm wondering if someone might turn the thread into a condensed digest form?

Thanks everyone for sharing.

Cheers,
ollec

[John21 (OP)]

Ollec,

I've also found eating eggs seems like it accelerates the recovery time by a day or two, though probably not so good for the cholesterol.

I believe that our blood cholesterol levels depend mostly on our saturated/trans fat intake, and less on our ingested cholesterol. I have heard firsthand of a man eating three eggs for breakfast for many years and having a cholesterol reading the best the doctor had ever seen.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-full-story/index.html#cholesterol

[girlwind]

Cholesterol is what all the steroid hormones in the body are made of. If one's cholesterol is too low, that will affect
the functioning of all the glands in the body. I know a bit about this, because my father was a pathologist whom I
use to have many discussions about health and diet with. He performed over 3000 autopsies in his life, and it was his
experience that those who lived to a ripe old age had a chunk of fat reserves in the area of the adrenal glands.  He
believed that healthy cholesterol rich body fat reserve is what nourished the entire glandular system and helped to
prolong these elders lives. (And no--that's not the same as  having rolls of fat around the middle section of the body,
which has often been associated with a higher risk of heart attacks, strokes and diabetes.)

Ten years ago I had severe malabsorbtion, due to a HCl deficiency. At that point my cholesterol was only 107, my
thyroid was pathetically low, my protein was in the red, my DHEA and testosterone was that of a 70 year old, and I
had ZERO energy. Once I started digesting and absorbing my food, it changed dramatically in less than a year. Un-
fortunately I went through a similar ordeal attempting to find the answer to my digestive problems, as we are going
through with the POIS problem on this forum. I actually had one doctor tell me I needed "to chew my food 100 times
and pray before eating." The answer I needed eventually came from a friend who gave me a few tablets of her digestive
aids to try--they had HCl in them, and the rest is now history. My cholesterol is now 168.

[Counterpoints]

For my own remedies, I've found taking men's multivitamins helps the next day, and sometimes a big dose of vitamins followed by vigorous workout seems to "kick-start" my body out of it.   Seems counterintuitive, since the natural tendency is to be tired, but it's worked well for me. 

Ollecrev, this is not counter intuitive.  Exercise can cause a release in endorphins, which may make you feel better.

I am starting to wonder whether Naltrexone or particularly Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) might help us.  There is a parallel between how opiates and orgasm affect the pleasure centre.  Naltrexone can also have sexual side effects similar to Levitra.  There may be a connection here.  (As far as I can tell, not much is known about why Naltrexone can have this stimulating effect).

Naltrexone would block the opiate receptors (for up to 24 hours), perhaps preventing an opiod overdose during orgasm which could cause these symptoms.  Low Dose Naltrexone works in almost the opposite way.  Because the dose is so small, the receptors are blocked for only about 3 hours, and the body compensates by generating more endorphins.  This is being used as an experimental treatment for people with a huge variety of nervous system disorders.

However, there are risks associated with the long term use of these medications, and I think a physician is unlikely to prescribe it for you unless you make a good case.  Naltrexone would usually be prescribed to people with serious alcohol or opiod dependencies.  Low dose (about 1 tenth the dose) is more experimental, and would have to be specially produced by a pharmacy (or you would have to make the dosage small enough yourself).

Please read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naltrexone
and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_dose_naltrexone

And let me know what you think.

[demografx]

I'm wondering if someone might turn the thread into a condensed digest form?

Thanks everyone for sharing.

Cheers,
ollec

Ollec, WELCOME! and I agree, we need an easier way to read through all the POIS Forum posts.

[Counterpoints]

The questionnaire is somewhat of an answer to that need.  Though these things take longer to get in motion than I had expected -- they usually end up depending on many, many, people.

Thanks b_jim, for your help organizing critical information here.

[martin88]

I can't fix magnesium and it's defintly low but I do my possible to increase it.
(I eat 1 egg/day for breakfast (2 in the past) without succes.)

B_Jim it's nice to see you here again. How did you know you were magnesium deficient ? About eggs i heard an actor (very popular, everybody know him) in a tv interview : his suggestion was to eat only one egg every morning and nothing else to recover from "all excesses of life". He was serious about this. (the "Nothing else" was important for him.)
Do you think eating an egg/day will help with magnesium deficiency ?

Interesting idea of excessive release of histamine and refers to immunology/hypersensivity/allergy too.

10 y ago i took some antihistamines to suppress nocturnal emissions. Bad idea !
I immediately started to feel cognitive problems with this treatment. I'm now more depressed than i was before i took this. 
http://www.aolhealth.com/condition-center/allergies/medication

I am now on Lexapro (unrelated) for depression. This has the side effect of greatly decreasing my libido. I don't really mind; it actually saves me a lot of time feeling bad and it's good not having to go through these annoying symptoms. I generally feel better physically.

Hi to Bola Bola, your post is interesting. Thanks for posting! I understand that taking this medication reduce your sexual frequency and at the same time pois. But what about nocturnal emissions with lexapro ?

About candida, i saw that we can make the test in a lab. I found the papers of the naturopath i saw a few years ago, the lab was genovadiagnostics. In their website in the menu "tests" you can see some sample reports. It's interesting for us pois sufferers but i'm still wondering why the conventionnal medicine can't give this to us. Is it only a money problem ?

Also i have a question for Girlwind. Did you have pois before this HCL deficiency ?
And do you know why you had this ? (salt deficiency ?) It could be interesting to know.

Counterpoints, i believe there is a part of withdrawals symptoms in pois. A kind of orgasm addiction. Some people are very sensitive to drugs intake and become easily addicted. An other theory, pois is a weaning ... Pois may have several causes. In your link it's written : Naltrexone has been shown to be effective in the reversal of sexual satiety and exhaustion in male rats.

Hello to Guthrie, I think pois can be cured in 3 days because some people have pois symptoms for only 3 days ! Why not !

[Coreman]

I am a new guy here. I have been having POIS for the last 10 years, so I also know what it is all about. (Parameters: I am 28 now, POIS started at 18).

First let me congratulate folks, for the power we're demonstrating, exactly day-by-day. I am proud to be a member of this forum.     

Today I got down to summarize the essence of my personal experience with POIS,  which might be useful to others: 

1. SYMPTOMS

Which tend to occur after having an orgasm, and last 2-2,5 days: 

-Anxiety
-Sadness, emptiness, bad mood (I deliberately avoid using the term: "Depression")
-Fatigue
-Physical and emotional irritability  (on a high scale)
-Laziness (now matter how motivated and enthusiastic I was the previous day)
-decreased Learning abilities
-decreased speed of processing the info coming from the outside world (!)
-decreased pace of my thoughts (!)

-fairly decreased self-confidence (e.g. that I remember right the data, facts, numbers which are currently on my mind)

-negative expectations of everything (continually supposing  negative outcomes) 

-abdominal and back-pain
-tension in my shoulders and neck.
-continual hunger


By hard work,  I made a couple of these symptoms disappear. (See my notes below)


WHAT WORKS for me (produced good results)

1. alkaline diet (eating fresh vegetables, alkaline food etc)
2. Kundalini Yoga (it helped made the 90 % of the "physical  fatigue symptoms" wear off, 100% of back pain and 100% of abdominal pain. I suppose it is remarkable.  Warning: I strongly recommend you visit a professional Kundalini teacher (10-20 years of experience) if chosing this stuff, in order to avoid possible risks and dangers. It is fairly dangerous to practice alone. 

3. Quick-paced cardio workout. In my experience, at least 30 minutes of 10-12 kmph running does the trick! It really helps me recover from the majority of these unpleasant symptoms, both  the physical and the mental side  . I must emphasize that only a fast-paced cardio workout does the trick in my experience, slow jogging does not.       

I suppose, cardio training is really worth trying. As a matter of course, only for those who are allowed to work out hard (by their doctor), so I strongly recommend consulting your doctor before giving it a try.

Briefly, my results on cardio training are: it reduces my recovery by 1,5 days. (My situation: 1 orgasm = 2,5 days POIS.) In other words, 2,5 days of damn difficulties decrease to 1 single day!  For instance, evening sex is followed by an early morning cardio workout by me. Both are healthy..
 

4. Decent hot meal..... (after orgasm)

I may come back on it later. (For me: chicken, fatty sauce and rice, often helps, but only to an extent...)
   
5. A good sleep (after orgasm.)  7-8 hours, uninterrupted, undisturbed, unmasturbed (eheh). In my experience, anxiety and fatigue are much worse if only 5-6 hours slept) 


6. Active barley formula - functional food. Very good. It helps me reduce fatigue to the level of 10% (by 90%). (However, the digestive system has to be in a good condition, so I went on a detox. diet earlier). It is superb.


UNDER TRIAL (by me)

7. Psychotherapy. (They say POIS may be of psychic origin, in many cases. One of the best sexualtherapist in my country   informed me

8. Psychiatric drugs. ( e.g. serotonine affecting stuff) INTERESTING: Anxiron (buspiron-hydrochloride) which is against anxiety helps me eliminate the majority of the other symptoms! (sadness, fatigue, irritability, laziness)  Wonderful! The root, in my case may be psychic, I came to the conclusion. The results of this try are really promising


9. Specialized Kinesiology (also "Energy Kinesiology)

Recently, I started a K. treatment, too. Surprisingly, the therapist (with 15 yrs experience) knew a lot about POIS, she calls it Post-Coital Depression Syndrome! She even mentioned she had already healed dozens of patents from it! Remarkable.

So, Energy Kinesiology (quite popular otherwise) is also being tested. I may report on the results later.

Summarizing,  it may be a good idea to visit a psychiatrist and test different drugs allowed by him/her, and attend psychotherapy. - POIS could be of psychic origin,  after all… I will report to the public on Kinesiology which is also promising ...

Besides this, I dare to recommend backing you up with physical training, proper eating, and other "biologic stuff". These launched a much better quality of life for me, which I enjoy now, tremendously!    Positive thinking is also required.

I am over the moon now that I found this forum. I am so content with coming across such strong fellows, who just do not give up.

Best wishes,

Hear from you,

Coreman.
 

-----------------------------------
OTHER HARD EXPERIENCES -
Stuff which haven't worked for me:

- Milk/bitter Chocolate:  -  I don't recommend. I tried it several times, it has good effects temporarily, but it has several terrible side-effects.  Unhealthy, too fatty, boosts your hunger, etc.

- Caffeine I don't recommend, you may know why.
....  (Personally, I got anxious, and more stressed by caff.)

-High-sugar foods (fructose, glucose) e.g. sweets.


_{Mod edit - merged with existing POIS thread, just to keep all on-topic stuff together}

[girlwind]

Martin 88--In regard to your question about whether I had POIS before the HCl deficiency--
My main health issue is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, POIS is definitely secondary, but very much related, as they both seem to be the
result of adrenal exhaustion (in my case). I had no POIS and no other significant health problems before having CFS (which I've now
had close to 30 years). After the CFS reeked all-encompassing havoc on most of my body systems, my digestion went to hell. Initially
I thought the cause was candida overgrowth, because that was the "popular" diagnosis with the alternative health crowd at the time.
But after trying for many years to KILL candida, and only making myself weaker and skinnier and more nutritionally deficient, as a result
of the restrictive diets that went with the candida-killing protocols, I wised up that this was the wrong approach. After another several
years using digestive enzymes (of all different kinds and labels), without much success, I "accidently" came upon the HCl--given to me
by a friend, who had an intuition that I was HCl deficient like she was. (They say that most of the population has a noticeable decline in
HCL production after age 40; for some, like me, it was earlier still.) I think anyone who has a digestive issue related to their POIS should
consider trying the Betaine HCl--it's not very expensive and can be very beneficial.