[demografx]

Counterpoints, you make a very compelling case. But wouldn't we need someone who could read the results in relation to POIS? Or are the results straightforward/self-evident?

[martin88]

I don't know a lot about PET scans but it seems to be a good idea. I'll read on this. We'll have to determine who has the symptoms of most of us, and take several pois cases to confirm the results. I guess a doctor must give a prescription for this test and then he'll be able to interpret the results. A test out of pois and in pois would have been preferable to eliminate any condition not related to orgasm.

[martin88]

(1) I ordered the neuro test from here :

http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/neuroscan_neurotransmitter_test.html

(2) ...order these tests through ZRT labs, this is where I got mine done...

Michael, you sound very knowledgeable; how do you know these people are good?

This is one of my favorites unanswered questions here !

[Counterpoints]

It should be quite easy to find people who would be willing to help interpret the results.  I know of several expert medical doctors who would be willing to do it.   In the US,  and in other countries, you can pay to have this scan done without having it ordered by a doctor; this is what we would likely need to do.  A general practitioner would not be willing (or likely able) to order these scans -- in fact, most would know very little about them.  They are generally research tools, and in medical practice, mostly used to diagnose and treat cancer -- PET shows brain metabolism, and cancerous tissue is very metabolically active.  A neurologist, of all doctors, would be most willing and able to order the scan.

Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron_Emission_Tomography
It is explains PET well at an introductory level.

[demografx]

(1) I ordered the neuro test from here :

http://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/neuroscan_neurotransmitter_test.html

(2) ...order these tests through ZRT labs, this is where I got mine done...

Michael, you sound very knowledgeable; how do you know these people are good?

This is one of my favorites unanswered questions here !

Martin, he answered the questions today at Post #191285.

[demografx]

I don't know a lot about PET scans but it seems to be a good idea. I'll read on this. We'll have to determine who has the symptoms of most of us, and take several pois cases to confirm the results. I guess a doctor must give a prescription for this test and then he'll be able to interpret the results. A test out of pois and in pois would have been preferable to eliminate any condition not related to orgasm.

This sounds exciting, do we have any idea as to the cost?

[Counterpoints]

Demo: If a doctor orders the test (as I said, it would likely have to be a neurologist -- a family doctor would hardly know anything about PET), your insurance would cover it.  We would not need a doctor's approval to have the scan done though -- we'd just have to pay.  I think this will be the case, since in order to have a doctor order the scan, you'd have to be referred to a very good neurologist who isn't worried about his reputation or politics: it's expensive, and so a doctor would be unlikely to order the scan for an unconventional reason.  PET uses radioactive tracers that are produced in cyclotrons.   These cost about $2000. 

I am going to look into paying for one for myself.   

[demografx]

Demo: If a doctor orders the test (as I said, it would likely have to be a neurologist -- a family doctor would hardly know anything about PET), your insurance would cover it.  We would not need a doctor's approval to have the scan done though -- we'd just have to pay.  I think this will be the case, since in order to have a doctor order the scan, you'd have to be referred to a very good neurologist who isn't worried about his reputation or politics: it's expensive, and so a doctor would be unlikely to order the scan for an unconventional reason.  PET uses radioactive tracers that are produced in cyclotrons.   These cost about $2000. 

I am going to look into paying for one for myself.  

So if we have a "study" done - selected from our membership here - in-POIS and out-of-POIS, we're looking at a 5-figure cost for just 5 people! I'm sure a few people here are looking at this and saying/thinking "gulp". Maybe I can play piano on a street corner..............

[Counterpoints]

They have used these scans on large groups of people for various studies though.  If we could interest someone who is doing a study with PET scans, on sexual response, for example (this is common enough), then we wouldn't have to pay.

It's costly, yeah.  fMRI would be a lot cheaper, but I'm not sure if it would be as good.  I am going to look into this more.  I am fairly certain PET would be the best scan.  I am pretty sure PET would identify the underlying problem -- if that is the case, then $2000 is worth the return for me.  I'd say this is an avenue we as group should try to explore -- first by trying to get these scans without any cost to us. 

Also, I don't want to raise hopes too much, but there are some MD PhDs who have expressed interest in studying our situation, and have looked at this thread.  So we are not as isolated as it may seem.

[Coreman]

Congratulations Girlwind, your formula sounds good!
I also experienced a strong interconnection..

1. Going back to serotonin, I am also convinced that in some cases (like mine) low serotonin levels are a significant factor in P.O.I.S problems.

2. Besides, I'd like to share that I have a good experience with Cortitrol, after 6 days of taking. I experienced that after having taken 2 Cortitrol, a daytime emission (!) did not result in  the well-known feeling of "I am just about to fall asleep", which I found very interesting. I could get me through the day much easier, however, POIS symptoms appeared the next morning. It might have delayed something.
 

3. Tyrosine:  I've finished my test on Tyrosine, unfortunately, the positive results are negligible. It must have had a placebo effect. (Wikipedia was right, but I gave it a day in court.)   

It was really promising to read through the posts with new ideas. PET test is also a brilliant idea!

Take care,

Coreman.

[demografx]

...I don't want to raise hopes too much, but there are some MD PhDs who have expressed interest in studying our situation, and have looked at this thread.  So we are not as isolated as it may seem.

Counterpoints, THANKS FOR THE GOOD NEWS!

[demografx]

COUNTERPOINTS, if someone wants a PET scan of in-POIS and then a 2nd scan out-of-POIS, would that cost $4,000?

[Counterpoints]

COUNTERPOINTS, if someone wants a PET scan of in-POIS and then a 2nd scan out-of-POIS, would that cost $4,000?

The largest cost is the radioactive tracer they inject.  Once this in your system, they should be able to perform scans for a few hours.  So it would be possible for someone to have a scan symptom free, have an orgasm, watch what happens to the brain during orgasm, and take a look at what's happening when we feel symptoms.

So $2000 is the answer, if it's well organized.

[demografx]

COUNTERPOINTS, if someone wants a PET scan of in-POIS and then a 2nd scan out-of-POIS, would that cost $4,000?

The largest cost is the radioactive tracer they inject.  Once this in your system, they should be able to perform scans for a few hours.  So it would be possible for someone to have a scan symptom free, have an orgasm, watch what happens to the brain during orgasm, and take a look at what's happening when we feel symptoms.

So $2000 is the answer, if it's well organized.

That's encouraging. Although sometimes my POIS symptoms don't get full-blown till a day later.

[demografx]

LIBIDO

Mine is low. There are ways to improve it, but why? It just leads to you-know-what. So I remain low.

Sorry to be so negative, you know I'm mostly upbeat. But this is the only place I can vent with what's really going on in that part of my life. Thank you for letting me do that.

[Animus]

Greetings,
I'm glad I found this discussion forum. I think I have POIS too, although I have a slightly different spin.
I've been through a lot in the last 5 years. I'm now 38 years old.
In January 2003, I bought and used a product called VigRX.  VigRX are those "penis pills" that enlarge the penis and increase the amount and intensity of the ejaculation.  It works by causing more blood to rush into the genitals during sexual excitement, and thereby slowly enlarging the penis over time because of the ballooning effect.

I found the product to be very effective. My penis increased in girth from about 3" to 5", although length was not affected.  My testicles enlarged to about twice their original size, and the sac became more pendulous. I ejaculated twice as much semen, and the quality of semen was whiter, thicker and ribbon-like.
But it soon began to feel that this added intensity was becoming very taxing to my system and that I was undergoing some rather dramatic systemic changes because of it.

Most troubling to me was:

1. Extreme exhaustion after ejaculation lasting days. Feeling utter weakness and intense sleepiness. I sometimes needed to sleep 16 hours after ejaculating. It took me up to 7 days to recover from an ejaculation.  during that time I was very weak.

2. Intense hunger and craving for protein, fats, and sweets. Weight gain. My food consumption increased a lot in the days after ejaculation. It felt like my body was trying to refuel from a complete drain of resources.  And the overall fat gain felt like again a hedge against this total depletion. Having previously been a rather well-balanced physical specimen- enjoying good fitness and vigour- I became something of a "sex-machine"! It felt like all my body's resources were being diverted to the genitals, and to semen production. My genitals became turbo-charged while the rest of me withered away and I became grossly out of balance.
I could actually feel a higher level of activity and movement in my testicles. They would also tend to ache a lot.

3. dizziness.  Inability to stand up alone with my eyes closed. I experienced a minor concussion one night when I fell over backward in the dark on the way to the bathroom. I could remain vertical and walk but I had to consciously keep correcting myself.

4. Hot flashes. Those are when the skin suddenly feels burning and feverish.

5. Increased perspiration. My shirts became soaked with sweat and the smell was much more pungent. Shirt armpits all got stained yellow. 

6. Poor digestion. I began to have constant diarrhea instead of hard, healthy stool. Stomach grumbled a lot. I to this day haven't had good healthy stool since 2003.

7. Jitteriness. Shakiness, feeling of overstimulation. This went along with the weakness. I felt a certain instability in my chest, instead of being relaxed. This effected my work, my relationships, and my ability to think and relax.

8. Inability to exercise.  Since taking VigRX I have not been able to run, bike, swim, lift weights, or do any aerobic activity.  Exercise causes me to become extremely weak for the next few days.  Also, it causes an intense stress to my body that is hard to recover from. I just don't have the internal resources to exert very much.  My body seems to save all that for sexual activity now.

9. Compromised immune system.  I began to catch colds much more easily, and catch flu.  Generally much more sickly. I needed to go to the hospital emergency room a few times.

10. Lack of control over my libido.  I would go through this cycle of intense sexual stimulation, where I would be compelled to masturbate or have sex.  It felt out of my control.

11. Belligerence. My personality changed dramatically. I think this was caused by the increase in testicle size, and the increase in testosterone. Although, interestingly, I was still within the normal range for testosterone levels, and for testicle size.  The normal range seems to be quite broad. But for my body it was too much.  Increased testosterone also caused my hairline to recede quickly.

12. Back and joint pain.  Feeling of deadness in my spine.  development of an  exaggerated curvature to my spine. Much neck problems. Pain and weakness in joints. I think this is also in common with the others who have posted here.

13.  Mental deterioration. Mental fogginess. I forgot how to spell words, and often couldn't find words to express myself. My writing also changed and I began to switch letters.

14. Mental depression.  In the days after ejaculation, I feel quite down and unable to socialize satisfactorally.

I've listed just the major symptoms, I think they match what others have felt with POIS.  But unlike some of you, I've not had POIS since puberty.  I developed a particularly strong version of it after taking VigRX- which caused in a way, a second puberty-  or a second major growth/ development of the genitals.

My life turned dramatically for the worse after all this happened. I no longer felt I was able to function in the world or take care of myself. I came near to really ending my life.  And I had to be hospitalized at a psychiatric ward.

Also, due to VigRX I developed an enlarged prostate- which causes incontinence.  The size of the prostate is directly effected by how much testosterone is produced.  Having enlared testicles causes enlargement of the prostate. Enlarged prostate can cause incontinence- and it did for me.  I became unable to control my bowel movements.  After my oriectomy, and the subsequent lessening of testosterone, it cured my incontinent urges. I'm also taking Flomax, a medicine to reduce the prostate- and that has worked quite well.

My understanding of the problem is that my sexual function became too demanding for my body.  My body in it's normal state couldn't support the amount of sexual activity that became demanded of it. And all these symptoms were a result of my body's greater expenditure of semen.  A lot of my problems were also caused by hormonal irregularity because of increased testicle size.
I reason that much of my problem is caused by the overproduction and overejaculation of semen. Or the production and ejaculation of semen beyond that which the body can comfortably tolerate.  There could be something to the orgasmic chemical release as well.  But I think the main cause is "overejaculation", and the cure for me is "dry ejaculation".

My solution was to remove the organs responsible for manufacturing semen.  The first and easiest to remove are the testes.
I had a "bilateral oriectomy".  This is the removal of both testicles. I experienced almost immediate relief after the surgery.  I went on a lowered dose of testosterone, which cured the dizziness, and the rampant libido, and the shakiness in my chest. It also cured the intense food cravings after ejaculation, and it cured the belligerence. My hairline returned to normal. It lessened the recovery time from 7 days to 2-3 days currently.

I also started taking a high dose of Prozac to combat the mental depression and cognitive problems.  That has helped me a lot also.

I still have the problems with exhaustion, back pain, diarrhea, inability to exercise, depression, and so on, after ejaculation. I have looked into what it would take to remove the other two organs which make semen.  Ultimately, I think that "dry ejaculation" will solve much of the problem. My body has not returned to normal levels of semen production, and it it still overproducing and over-expending due to the VigRX.

The testes are responsible really only for the sperm in semen, which comprises very little of the volume.  The majority of the seminal fluid is produced by the seminal vesicles and the prostate.
The next step for me, logically would be the removal the seminal vesicles, the cauterizing of the ejaculatory ducts, and perhaps the reduction of the prostate through a TURP.  These would cause me dry ejaculation.

I've arranged for this operation, but put it on hold because no one is recommending it, and it is expensive and time-consuming, and involves going out of the country. All of which I'm not sure is worth it right now, not yet.  But I keep the option open while I explore other options.

I'm curious what other people have done to effectively reduce their POIS symptoms.

[demografx]

Animus, welcome to the POIS Forum. You can see a lot of what we've done to combat POIS by going through the previous posts (we're now on the 49th page of posts).

[demografx]

Animus, girlwind, with help from guthrie put together a POIS YouTube you might like:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBxAUC9k1g

[Animus]

Thank you for the welcome, demographx.  And the youtube presentation is very interesting.  I think it's very effective in describing the syndrome, and the issues surrounding it. Nice work!

I was wondering about the name of this disorder... Being post-orgasmic implies that it could effect women too- because as we know women too have orgasms.  But there aren't many women we know of with this problem, which leads me to think it might be called "post-ejaculatory illness syndrome".  Any thoughts on that? It seems to me the common cause is the ejaculation, perhaps, more than the orgasm?  But in men they are usually one and the same.

Any tips on how to change my username? I don't want that name searchable -- would like to protect my privacy!
Thanks.

[Guthrie]

Actually, the person who made the youtube video--girlwind on this forum--is a woman!  So the name POIS seems to be an accurate one, even if many of the other currently-known cases are men.