[demografx]

Pois is secondary for me, CFS is my primary problem, but I think they are interrelated, as both (in my case) have at least something to do with hormonal deficiencies.

FWIW, when I described POIS to my previous psychiatrist, his reaction was that I had CFS.

[girlwind]

Pois is secondary for me, CFS is my primary problem, but I think they are interrelated, as both (in my case) have at least something to do with hormonal deficiencies.

FWIW, when I described POIS to my previous psychiatrist, his reaction was that I had CFS.

I don't know how your psychiatrist came to his conclusion, and I don't know exactly all the other symptoms beside POIS
that you experience, but I do know that there is a definite difference between chronic fatigue and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

The CDC define CFS as a distinct disorder with specific symptoms. The criteria for CFS can be found on the site below.
http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/how_chronic_fatigue_syndrome_diagnosed_000007_4.htm

Because CFS is so complex and varies from one person to the next (just like POIS), there can be many different patterns
of symptoms. For example: many of us with CFS have low libido, but not all of us have POIS. Many of us have hormonal
imbalances, but not all.. and some have very clear deficiencies in one hormone and not in another. The one thing that
stands out among most CFS sufferers that I know (and the clinical research confirms this number at 70%),  is that the
majority of the "sudden onset" CFS patients  were healthy until a distinctly flu-like illness struck them down at a definite
time. After that they were never the same.

There is a documentary  by Kim Snyder called I Remember Me about CFS. It's really well done and tells the story of many
both ordinary and famous people who have been living with CFS. It goes into the politics of the widespread denial of the
illness (for DECADES by the medical community) and all the efforts made by empathetic doctors to give it recognition and
get it the research that it deserves.

This sounds all to familiar, doesn't it? It's sad that the patients are the ones who have to take charge to get their own research
and treatment.

[Counterpoints]

Of course people who post here will also happen to have other ailments.  CFS and POIS are distinct, as far as we can tell.  Of all the people who have posted here (at least 100), girlwind is the only one who claims to have CFS, (and also is one of only two females).

[imre1]

Contrary to my saying that i would not post anymore. I do want to add a few words on beta blockers.

After about six weeks all my symptoms have disappeared. I am now able to do things I, only a couple of months earlier, thought i would never again do. Things that some people take for granted.

Anyway except for maybe my special case I have noticed none of the fatigue symptoms some people talk about when talking about beta blockers.

On the contrary they make me feel a lot fitter then i used to do. I am also a lot hapier these days.

One thing that can be of interest to everyone is that it completely elimintated sex drive. I feel that I do not have to have sex. And that alone is a feeling more energyzing than anything I have ever felled before.

So personally I would recommend them to everyone and have any doctor shot that doesn't want to provide them.

[Counterpoints]

Contrary to my saying that i would not post anymore. I do want to add a few words on beta blockers.

After about six weeks all my symptoms have disappeared. I am now able to do things I, only a couple of months earlier, thought i would never again do. Things that some people take for granted.

Anyway except for maybe my special case I have noticed none of the fatigue symptoms some people talk about when talking about beta blockers.

On the contrary they make me feel a lot fitter then i used to do. I am also a lot hapier these days.

One thing that can be of interest to everyone is that it completely elimintated sex drive. I feel that I do not have to have sex. And that alone is a feeling more energyzing than anything I have ever felled before.

So personally I would recommend them to everyone and have any doctor shot that doesn't want to provide them.

imre1, how long did they take to start working?  are you taking anything else? what dose?  still emconcor?
Thanks so much for sharing this with us. I am so glad you are feeling better.  It provides so much hope.
Please let me know.
Thanks

[prosodye]

I take MMS for candida. John21 , that is exactly what I think. A fungus having roots in the pelvic area. As I said in a previous post, unfortunately I have been masturbating a lot when I was younger. My pelvic area is full of problems, crunched L5\S1 disc, hyperlordosis, osteosclerosis on the sacroiliacs etc... 
I use lots of garlic and I take MMS too. Unfortunaltely there is another side effect to this, the die off of the candida makes me come at night. Yoga works as well, but sometimes has the same effect.
I really think anyway that Candida is the problem and anti fungals the solution. I am 100 percent raw as well. It helps.

[imre1]

Contrary to my saying that i would not post anymore. I do want to add a few words on beta blockers.

After about six weeks all my symptoms have disappeared. I am now able to do things I, only a couple of months earlier, thought i would never again do. Things that some people take for granted.

Anyway except for maybe my special case I have noticed none of the fatigue symptoms some people talk about when talking about beta blockers.

On the contrary they make me feel a lot fitter then i used to do. I am also a lot hapier these days.

One thing that can be of interest to everyone is that it completely elimintated sex drive. I feel that I do not have to have sex. And that alone is a feeling more energyzing than anything I have ever felled before.

So personally I would recommend them to everyone and have any doctor shot that doesn't want to provide them.

imre1, how long did they take to start working?  are you taking anything else? what dose?  still emconcor?
Thanks so much for sharing this with us. I am so glad you are feeling better.  It provides so much hope.
Please let me know.
Thanks

It is still improving.

They took about 3 weeks to first feel some results. Then the headaches started disapearing. First with my head that felled that it was pulling on all sides. Now nothing anymore.

A lowered heart beat was noticable on the first day. Now always on 75.

I think the fact that they made me feel fitter contributes to the fact that I do not have problems with my other symptoms anymore either. Some may have been purely psychological, eg. insomnia.

The reduction in sex drive also came on after some time. I don't know when exactly. First i noticed that i didn't get attracted to women anymore. Then I noticed that i did not want sex anymore.

I take emconcor 1 pil (10mg) in the morning, obviously every day.

[John21 (OP)]

Prosodye, I hadn't heard of MMS, and after searching about it I don't think I would put it in my body. But if you are convinced that it is beneficial, at least heed this:

[martin88]

Concerning the b-complex supplements, it's better to know what you're doing. And i think that most likely nobody really knows.

They say here that if you have a magnesium deficiency, it can cause nerve damage if you take B6 without pyridoxal phosphate (P5P) :

from http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/natural-remedies/vitamins/deficiency-vitamin-b6-increase-risk-stroke-00411.html :

It is important to be aware that vitamin B6 comes in different forms and the type found in most multivitamin supplements is an inactive and cheaper form called pyridoxine hydrochloride, rather than the active form: pyridoxal-5-phosphate (P5P). This doesn't necessarily pose a problem since pyridoxine is converted in your liver to the active form P5P - the only form your cells can use, which goes to work straight away in your blood stream.1

However, this transformation is not always successful and a lack of the mineral magnesium in the diet or an underactive liver (due to too much alcohol, antibiotics or a generally unhealthy lifestyle) can soon interfere with this process. If this happens then large amounts of pyridoxine can soon accumulate in the body that cannot be utilised, which can cause nerve damage over time

Your reaction may be to take P5P but excess can also cause nerve damage ! (See the next link.) An other web site i like but you rapidly see that it's not easy to find your way in this. They're writing about b-complex supplements :
http://www.acu-cell.com/bx.html

I don't know if all this is true but in all my experiences with B-complex, definitely it wasn't the solution. (it cause insomnia, a lot more nervous/social phobia, libido down).However there is also a positive effect (help fatigue) showing that it does good and bad at the same time.

In conclusion, my opinion is it's better to stay with small doses. Except in serious cases of a known deficiency where only high doses are effective.




 

[prosodye]

Thank you JOhn21, it was very interesting. As he says, I do not use it as a monotherapy.
 I take OxCygen too, coconut oil and pau d'arco. I know colloidal silver and grapefruit Xtract can help as well. I too am not sure that taking MMS is a great idea. Maybe I should just stick to my hot peppers and garlic, it might be enough. But still I do not think he is against MMS at all.
He says, "Bacteria: ClO2 will become reduced (5e-) when it is in proximity to the bacteria’s cell wall damaging it. ClO2 will so inhibit Nitrite Reductase activity, an enzyme needed for anaerobic respiration (same mech for cancer cells). Virus: ClO2 will penetrate the cell wall and will interrupt intracellular peptone production, a necessary intermediant in viral protein hydrolysis (creation of functional protein)."

So it is just that by reduction a superoxide dismutation happens, like it would with a triplet oxygen. ( or maybe it works differently with polyvalent reduction?) So 3O2 turns into O2-   Then what chlorine dioxyde does would sound rather natural, given that cells in the body naturally dismutate into hydrogen peroxide and oxygen anyway. So "ions against ions", they all explode and what's left is sodium, I would guess.
But some thing I find interesting is the interaction with ferrous iron, it made me suddenly think that I have always been deficient in iron. I am wondering if it is common here? Do you happen to be, here on the forum? John21 are you? I wonder if it could be linked to candida and to improper oxygen reactions...

Are you yourself still on garlic only. Is it still efficient?
 Do you think there is a flare up of candida after orgasm? And if yes, why do you think this is so?

Wishing you a good day.

[John21 (OP)]

I am not deficient of anything, that I know of. Garlic has been doing the trick for me P.O., and I don't really know why. I am thinking more about "systemic candidiasis". It sounds like total BS to my ears, after all it presumably testable yet is not accepted by the medical establishment. Yet...I eased off on the regular garlic eating and last week I was eating a few scoops of frozen yogurt for a few nights (lots of sugar, something that I rarely eat), and bang my insomnia got worse and I had a big head fog. Makes me wonder.

Wow, this site says a symptom can be sensitivity to alcohol, that is definitely something I have. If I have even a little I can feel it, and even one sip will give me a poor sleep. I awake with a certain feeling, it distinctly happens only after drinking alcohol. I can't even drink "near beer"!

http://www.fungusfocus.com/html/candida_info2.htm

[Counterpoints]

Take a test for Candida?

Sugar causes problems for me too, as do some types of beer.  Also: I have had skin problems (eczema) for a long time, and I have taken minocycline and tetracycline for extended (longer than 1 month) periods, several times, including around the time I connected symptoms to POIS.

Has anyone else here taken minocin or tetracycline? when and for how long? (in relation to POIS symptoms starting)  How about sugar causing problems?

[prosodye]

Well, yes for sure. Sugar and candida, it thrives on sugar. Especially cooked, refined one, like beer, but less on wine or cider. I never drink myself but fruits always accentuate the symptoms. In London it is clearly recognized by some doctors, it is there anyway, it helps with reducing the amount of sugar we take in, but what we do not want is a blooming of it because it invades the organs, and most probably is the same thing as cancer. But you can't "get rid of it". Some people say that staying away from sugar is not the solution, as anyway, everything is broken down into glucose to provide energy for the cells, and that the solution is in a very low fat diet, because fat prevent the correct absorption and transformation of sugar into monosaccharides, thus making the insulin levels rise and throwing the adrenals off balance. And of course this benefits the candida.

[girlwind]

Take a test for Candida?

Sugar causes problems for me too, as do some types of beer.  Also: I have had skin problems (eczema) for a long time, and I have taken minocycline and tetracycline for extended (longer than 1 month) periods, several times, including around the time I connected symptoms to POIS.

Has anyone else here taken minocin or tetracycline? when and for how long? (in relation to POIS symptoms starting)  How about sugar causing problems?

Back in the 90's I spent a decade "KILLING CANDIDA," and at this point I no longer suffer from the symptoms of excessive candida
overgrowth.  In my case, the cause was weakened immunity and weak digestion, due to CFS. I also think that growing up with an
MD father, who overmedicated me with many different antibiotiocs throughout my childhood and teens, including a long run on
tetracycline for very mild acne, contributed greatly to my candida problem, and to my general immune collapse.

To "kill" the candida, I had to eliminate ALL SUGAR and GRAIN from my diet, as well as the high sugar content vegetables like
carrots, beets and squashes, and take anti-fungals (like pau d'arco and Nutribiotic GSE) in LARGE doses for 2 years. That brought
my levels of candida down significantly, but did not entirely fix the problem. When I introduced even a little grain back into my
diet, the candida took off again and my levels went way up in just a few months time. What finally did the trick was to heal my
digestive track with L-Glutamine (an amino acid that supposedly reduces inflammation in the gut), which I noticed instantly,
and Betaine HCL, which I've mentioned before on this forum. Once I had enough hydrochloric acid in my stomach and could
properly digest my food, the candida was mucheasier to control.  I have had no issues with it since then, though at this point I
continue to avoid grains and sugar, because that makes me feel healthier and stronger. I eat mostly raw and cooked vegetables,
raw vegetable juices, a tiny bit of fruit in season, and protein at every meal. I continue to have some POIS symptoms, despite the
fact that my candida problems are resolved. For me, the POIS is mostly about endocrine imbalances, which I am currently working on.

Great Smokies Diagnostic Laboratories tests for candida. That's who I used. There may be others at this point too.

[Counterpoints]

Interesting, girlwind.  Sugar does make me feel unusually spacey and distressed.  But I don't see how candida would respond to orgasm in such a noticeable way -- orgasm certainly affects me more than sugar or carbohydrates.   Maybe two separate problems?  I too regret taking antibiotics in my teens, inconsistently, and for extended periods of time.

[girlwind]

Interesting, girlwind.  Sugar does make me feel unusually spacey and distressed.  But I don't see how candida would respond to orgasm in such a noticeable way -- orgasm certainly affects me more than sugar or carbohydrates.   Maybe two separate problems?  I too regret taking antibiotics in my teens, inconsistently, and for extended periods of time.

I'm not seeing the POIS and candida connection for myself either. At this point POIS continues to be a problem for me,
whereas candida definitely is not. However, since sugar can be a culprit both in feeding candida overgrowth, as well
as in causing great fluctuations in hormone levels (especially insulin & cortisol), it would make sense that anyone who
has candida overgrowth issues and is consuming sugar on a regular basis may also be prone to POIS issues. And...
when you consider the progress John21 has made by managing candida, you have to consider that there might be a
connection for POIS sufferers.

[prosodye]

Thnak you for all that girlwind, although I am not sure one can ever know for sure that candida is an old story, no longer a problem, maybe it still manifests but as POIS, which would make sense because of what you say about adrenal balance. It seems like sugar is actually NOT the problem but fats are, as they give sugar a hard time to be turned into energy on a cellular level, making the pancreas go wild on insulin and throwing the adrenals out of balance, and weakening you.
Doug Graham people say it takes ages to diminish candida when you stay away from sugar but takes a very short time when you stay away from fats. It makes sense that stopping sugar does not really makes sense when everything is turned into glucose in the body anyway.
I take Betaine HCL myself, enzymes, pau d'arco, threelac, garlic, spices, MMS, detoxified iodine etc... and  am completely raw and don't do grains, only a few sprouted seeds, but I will definitely check L-glutamine.
You sound very knowledgeable about it Girlwind, it was great to read your post. For the moment it does not really do the trick, each time I eat a fruit, my ears, eyes, anus, scalp etc... itch awfully, I've been SAD for nearly 30 years, have taken huge amounts of antibiotics, and anti-inflammatories because of my HLA-B27, was a heavy drinker and smoker, cigarettes and else... so I guess it will take a very long time to heal and reduce the candidasis.
I know that a raw diet and garlic DEFINITELY help with my POIS, i can't say they disappear but there is for sure a betterment.
Thanks everyone for your posts, this thread is great. Really helpful.

[girlwind]

Thnak you for all that girlwind, although I am not sure one can ever know for sure that candida is an old story, no longer a problem, maybe it still manifests but as POIS, which would make sense because of what you say about adrenal balance. It seems like sugar is actually NOT the problem but fats are, as they give sugar a hard time to be turned into energy on a cellular level, making the pancreas go wild on insulin and throwing the adrenals out of balance, and weakening you.
Doug Graham people say it takes ages to diminish candida when you stay away from sugar but takes a very short time when you stay away from fats. It makes sense that stopping sugar does not really makes sense when everything is turned into glucose in the body anyway.

I don't know who Doug Graham is, but I definitely don't agree that staying away from fats will help candida at all.
In fact, increasing my protein and fat intake, while cutting out sugars and grains was the key for me to rid myself
of candida overgrowth. This is not to say I have NO candida in my system anymore, because I don't think that is
humanly possible. (After they dropped the atomic bomb during their "tests" in the Bikini Islands during the early
50's, they scanned the area for life afterwards, and guess what was the only living organism they found.... Yes,
you're right if you guessed candida!  If an atom bomb can't annihilate it, then I don't think there is enough pau
d'arco in the universe to do the job.) I do know that I have at this point, with diet and the supplements mentioned
before, (L-Glutamine and Betaine HCL), as well as fermented foods (yogurt, sauerkraut) and regular doses of
probiotics, created an environment that is hostile to the growth and proliferation of candida. The proof is that I no
longer have the high levels of it showing up in lab tests, and more importantly I no longer have the SEVERE daily
digestive problems I had in the past--constant indigestion and fermentation in my bowel, bloating, malabsorption,
and ongoing migraines with vomiting. In fact, I have not had a migraine for ten years.

Fats get a real bad rap in some circles, but actually they are very necessary for healthy brain functioning. Healthy
fats like olive oil, flax oil and fish oil as well as nuts, seeds, avocados, and the fats in animal food, which I eat daily,
have been a big part of changing my digestion and my energy level for the better. The POIS and adrenal issue I
have are most likely connected to an endocrine imbalance that is the result of a systemic viral problem (in my case
that is the human herpes virus #6, aka HHV6), which is one of the viruses that is implicated in CFS.

[prosodye]

"If an atom bomb can't annihilate it, then I don't think there is enough pau
d'arco in the universe to do the job.)" ( sorry, I can't seem to find the "quote" button)
Really? I bet that thing gets strengthened by atomic irradiation! scary..! It wants to conquer the world, it wants us to rot, to feed on us!
The seeds, yes, that's how I get my EFA's too, they're lovely...

[demografx]

HAPPY LABOR DAY

Hope everyone's having a good one!