[Counterpoints]

Yes, we have [edit: seen headaches before], demografx.  I suppose it will soon be obvious whether or not this is POIS; I'm not ruling it out, it just seems as though it is one of the less likely possibilities.  The description strikes me as a different, and more common problem.  Orgasm has caused aneurisms, strokes, aggravated heart conditions, etc.  Orgasm itself is not usually dangerous in these ways, but it can precipitate an underlying condition.  I have seen a case of this in the hospital, first hand.  And there is also post-coital headache.  The fact Phil mentioned sunlight also made me think he could be sensitive to prolonged and intense light exposure.  That is common enough.  In the end, I think this is probably a minor, passing, difficulty, but is worth consulting with a doctor over.  Anyways, this was my line of thought.

[demografx]

Yes, I agree, consulting the doctor with this is important.

btw, I modified my post above.

[martin88]

I hate to be always pessimistic here!
Seaweed are great to remove heavy metals from the body, but have also the property to absorb heavy metals from their environment, so it's necessary to buy from a trusted source, or better, to have it tested for heavy metals.
http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2006/January/20010601.asp
By the way, i saw some posts talking about tyrosine and phenylalanine. From this page they say both can cause skin cancer in long term use.
http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/NaStrategy.html
Unfortunately pois have this sad consequence to push us to do a lot of unusual things we'd have never done if we were healthy.

[demografx]

I hate the fact to be always pessimistic here!

Not pessimistic, Martin, realistic! As you say, desperate people sometimes do desperate things. We need to be careful. That's why I always stress warnings about trying my personal cure.

[Counterpoints]

I was talking to an MD PhD physician who specializes in sexual disorders, etc.  He said he has seen 4 people with POIS in his practice.  He recognizes it as a legitimate condition, and he has also read Waldinger's paper.  He said 3 of the people improved with Wellbutrin, but all of them eventually discontinued the drug anyways...

[Counterpoints]

Motor Control.

I remember Demografx saying something about playing the piano.  I am also a pianist.  I've noticed that my motor control is not affected by POIS.  My playing technique is not substantially affected.  Has anyone here noticed loss of motor control?

[martin88]

I'm also a pianist (used to be), we have now 3 cases playing piano! I can play  piano in pois, and i don't think motor control is affected, however i lose tempo, feeling, and pleasure to play.

[girlwind]

I'm also a pianist (used to be), we have now 3 cases playing piano! I can play  piano in pois, and i don't think motor control is affected, however i lose tempo, feeling, and pleasure to play.

I'm a guitar player, and fatigue from CFS and POIS does affect my playing. What's affected most is tempo and
finger picking coordination.  On bad CFS days I have poor coordination over all and easily drop things, spill
things, trip and mis-navigate corners, sometimes walking into walls. Also I tend to be forgetful, and have left
food on the stove, to burn down to unrecognizable chunks of black, destroying many pots and pans. A few
times I left eggs to boil, while I busied myself on the computer, and after the water had boiled away, about an
hour later, they actually exploded, hitting the adjacent wall. After many such I Love Lucy moments, my
boyfriend bought me a toaster oven with a timed automatic shut-off, as well as a cooking timer, which I
sometimes remember to use.  []

[demografx]

Motor Control.

I remember Demografx saying something about playing the piano.  I am also a pianist.  I've noticed that my motor control is not affected by POIS.  My playing technique is not substantially affected.  Has anyone here noticed loss of motor control?

When in POIS I'm completely discouraged from playing the piano. It's strictly emotional, though. I don't really want to do ANYTHING in POIS.

btw, Welbutrin had an immediate effect on me, and it was all bad. One try and I quit.

[demografx]

we have now 3 cases playing piano!

Just as I suspected: Piano playing causes POIS! []

[Counterpoints]

Demografx, you couldn't possibly know whether Wellbutrin can help you or not after "one try". 

I think this is a medication worth testing for a decent duration of time, if the results are so promising.  Of course, there is also likely a reason these people are discontinuing use anyways.  Do they get better without it?  Or do they just hate the side effects?  It's worth finding out more.

It makes sense that Wellbutrin could have an effect on this condition, since it is both a dopamine and epinephrine reuptake inhibitor.  We have discussed the possibility that a dopamine depletion could be responsible for these symptoms.  We have also discussed the relevance of catecholamines, like epinephrine.

[Counterpoints]

Demo, you say you are discouraged from playing the piano.  I am too, when I feel symptomatic.  But can you still play a scale quickly and without making mistakes?  That was my question...  I am wondering whether motor control loss is a notable symptom or not.  I don't play piano as musically when I am symptomatic -- like Martin said, the feeling
and thoughtfulness is somewhat lost.  But my technique does not substantially suffer.

To those who don't play a musical instrument, here is an interesting experiment.  When you are not symptomatic, take a typing test.  e.g. at http://www.typingtest.com/default.asp.  Take it about 5 times, and write down each of your scores.

Then when you are symptomatic, go back to that test.  Take it 5 times, and write down your scores.
Then try a new typing test, and take it 5 times, and write down your scores.

The results should be interesting.

[demografx]

Counterpoints, I am not putting down Wellbutrin for anyone else! It's not "scientific" but I just had such a violently bad reaction that no one could pay me enough to try it again!

I posted elsewhere here what one of my psychiatrists said about antidepressants as an example: even though all the SSRI antidepressants work to block re-uptake of serotonin, no one really knows why they all work differently for different people, e.g., Zoloft might work for one person, not for another, yet Effexor might work where Zoloft does not.

But no thanks, I will pass on "science" for a repeat bout with Wellbutrin...for ME. Besides, I have a formula that works for me now.

Again, I wouldn't discourage anyone to find out if Wellbutrin can work for them.

[demografx]

Demo, you say you are discouraged from playing the piano.  I am too, when I feel symptomatic.  But can you still play a scale quickly and without making mistakes?

I play blues and boogie woogie, highly improvisationally, and the "emotional input" is more critical than the speed and the precision.

POIS destroys the former.

I haven't fully tested it, but my guess is that the precision and speed is there.

[martin88]

i'm also a bass guitar player (6 strings) girlwind.
Four musicians, we're not so far to create the pois band!

Just as I suspected: Piano playing causes POIS! []

me too !  [] []

It would have been interesting to understand why you have had this reaction with wellbutrin.

Counterpoints, speed is not affected for me while playing, but i can't play for long because of fatigue in fingers, and mental.

[Dr. Matt]

For some people I noticed that garlic wasn't working, to activate the most active chemical component (alicin) (I think I spelled it right) its necessary to CRUSH the garlic cloves.

Secondly, for those of you who have failed on Wellbutrin because of the side effects, please try the non-sustained release (buproprion 100mg) and split the tablet in half, you can work up to a therapeutic dose.

Wellbutrin worked for me for the POIS in 1999, I was taking sustained release 100mg per day but in 2001 I became allergic to it and could no longer take it. The part of Wellbutrin (Buproprion) that I liked best was the effect it had on my nor-epineprine and thus motivation.

If you would like to read the most updated studies on medications and their uses, please visit pubmed.com and read the abstracts. Often the entire abstract requires a subscription to the medical journal, ie. NEJM New England Journal Of Medicine. However, if you cut and paste the full name of the article and Google it, chances are, someone has posted it in PDF format.

Thats all for now guys,

Dr. Matt

Any suggestions/recommendations for treatments read and shared here are purely just for information purposes and must first be talked about with your GP. Please note that any referrals to treatments are down to peoples own personal opinions and that everybody's bio-chemistry is different...plus, you must consider the reactions with existing medications that you may be on and the possibility of allergic reactions too.

Please note that whilst we hope you find the info here interesting and informative on The Naked Scientists website, it really is just for general information purposes and does not constitute bona-fide authoritative advice and thus no assurances regarding the accuracy or applicability in relation to your own specific situation is given. PLEASE SEE YOUR DOCTOR before commencing a new treatment.

[demografx]

Four musicians, we're not so far to create the pois band!

POIS BAND, that's hilarious, Martin! I can just see it now, songs like "I'm So Tired" (actual Beatles song) or "I Love You But Let's Not Sleep Together" []

More POIS songs?:
So Tired - Ozzy Osbourne
Tired Of Being Alone - Al Green
Tired Of Being Blonde - Carly Simon
Tired of England - Dirty Pretty Things
Tired Of Sex - Weezer
Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks
Tired Of You - Foo Fighters

[Counterpoints]

Just for clarification, the MD PhD I referred to was not Dr. Matt.  He (the person I referred to) is a practicioner and professor in San Fransisco.  He has given me his CV to post, which I may do shortly.  Right now I am acting as a proxy to prevent an overwhelming number of contacts.

[Counterpoints]

Thanks for your post Dr. Matt.  Did Wellbutrin completely alleviate you of POIS symptoms?  In a sense, did you become the person you were before you ever had POIS?  And how long did it take to start working?

Also, why do you refer to yourself as "Dr."  Do you have an MD or a PhD?  And can you tell us more about your POIS history?

Thanks.

[girlwind]

Four musicians, we're not so far to create the pois band!

POIS BAND, that's hilarious, Martin! I can just see it now, songs like "I'm So Tired" (actual Beatles song) or "I Love You But Let's Not Sleep Together" []

More POIS songs?:
So Tired - Ozzy Osbourne
Tired Of Being Alone - Al Green
Tired Of Being Blonde - Carly Simon
Tired of England - Dirty Pretty Things
Tired Of Sex - Weezer
Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks
Tired Of You - Foo Fighters

I've been working on a writing project that has occupied a lot of my time, but was checking in occasionally to see what you guys are
up to. DEMOGRAFX: This band idea is SO FUNNY! I had to respond with some original song lyrics:
 
Once upon a time ago I had an orgasm
So now I'm near to dead
And all the sexy videos are telling me
This trip is in my head 
My juices are escaping---I am not even faking
It's really crazy making, when screwing's such a dread

Sex is what sex is what sex is I'm not
Don't ask me to explain---my brain is inside out
Sex is what sex is what sex is I forgot
The River of Libido is feeling like a drought

Once upon a time ago this old nun told me
Do THAT and you'll go blind
So how could I resist the urge
To do THAT all the time
And now I must be dying, for lack of the denying
But I can see just fine, that lust is not so kind

Sex is what sex is what sex is I'm not
Don't ask me to explain---my brain is inside out
Sex is what sex is what sex is I forgot
The River of Libido is feeling like a drought