[demografx]

Putting Things In Perspective:

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing
                                                                                 - "Socrates"

A psychological reframe about POIS and epilepsy: POIS is a condition that has not really been all that researched...

Chewbacca, great summary of State-Of-The-POIS!. It Reminds me of Bill Maher's movie "Religulous" where he says "I belong to the I-don't-know team". It's so easy to claim to "know" the truth about POIS, yet fact is, we know diddly at this stage. Yet, for me, the mere existence of this forum and some positive results is light years ahead of where I was just 2 years ago! (2 years ago: hopeless resignation)

[demografx]

...I really don't want to stop taking Relora to get a blood test.  I know that sounds selfish, but I can't stand the symptoms.

Tarkington, you're not selfish! You've paid heavily with past POIS symptoms, you deserve a break! As long as you're medically careful with it (tell your doc, interactions aren't well known).

You're doing a lot for this Forum - and POISkind[] - just by reporting!

Enjoy your life. Take your time.

[demografx]

HIV/AIDS Scientist/pioneer: status

I'll be speaking with him again tomorrow. So far, he is leaning toward IL-6 (stimulates prolactin among other things) as contributing to POIS. I will keep you all posted.

Prolactin: Sex and Immune Activation
http://www.lef.org/dsnews/ds_letter_2004_jul.htm#2

[demografx]

I've caught the attention of an endocrine specialist that is willing to run additional test on me.  My next lab appt is January 5th.

Members, in the name of identifying cause of POIS, what tests do you suggest I undergo?

All thyroid tests have been negative (free t3, free t4, TSH).

Limejuice, I think it's up to you to choose from Counterpoints' or Girlwind's suggestions. Or perhaps some combination?

Look for Counterpoints' Message #203135 and Girlwind's Message #203140 (they're right next to each other)
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg203232

[girlwind]

I've caught the attention of an endocrine specialist that is willing to run additional test on me.  My next lab appt is January 5th.

Members, in the name of identifying cause of POIS, what tests do you suggest I undergo?

All thyroid tests have been negative (free t3, free t4, TSH).

I'm happy your thyroid checked out in range. I would also check cortisol levels, as well testosterone,
estrogen, and DHEA-S. You can do this with either blood spot tests or saliva through ZRT. Acronym
also mentioned something about pituitary testing, but he hasn't yet told us which tests he used.


http://www.zrtlab.com/Page.aspx?hid=410

[girlwind]

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing
                                                                                 - "Socrates"

Bill Maher's movie "Religulous" where he says "I belong to the I-don't-know team".

I vote YES on I don't know!

[demografx]

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing
                                                                                 - "Socrates"

Bill Maher's movie "Religulous" where he says "I belong to the I-don't-know team".

I vote YES on I don't know!

Girlwind, that's 2 votes this week! []

[demografx]

...You can do this with either blood spot tests or saliva....

Girlwind, do you know when urine testing is used?

[martin88]

I'm taking an herbal mix that has ginseng in it.

It takes at least 5 years to obtain a mature root of ginseng. Because of this ginseng is very frequently contaminated with pesticides, otherwise it's difficult to keep it alive for such a long time.

In a recent study, ConsumerLab tested 22 brands of ginseng supplements sold in the U.S. and found that only nine passed its review.
http://www.thebody.com/content/art30220.html

From a Swiss TV, they have also tested some ginseng (test made in 2000):
http://74.125.93.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.tsr.ch/emissions/abe/archive/00/000222b.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.tsr.ch/emissions/abe/archive/00/000222.html%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG&usg=ALkJrhiCi0oinfF3Eu2fp9QukmAh0N0rdA

[girlwind]

...You can do this with either blood spot tests or saliva....

Girlwind, do you know when urine testing is used?

I don't.

[Chewbacca]

RE:Martin88

My herbs are from shen chang pharmaceuticals, a Taiwanese based pharmaceutical company. They are GMP(good manufacturing Practices) compliant. They don't use contaminated herb and they test their product for contamination and quality control.

Don't ever use non organic, non GMP herbs. Also, it's always a good idea to see a TCM doctor if your going to start dabbling in herbs for specific conditions...like kidney chi deficiency.

[demografx]

POIS exhaustion/fatigue

I always thought this was a hallmark symptom of POIS until someone here said that theirs was not.

If exhaustion/fatigue is NOT your prime symptom, is brain fog?

[demografx]

Beware instant POIS cures!

[martin88]

RE:Martin88

My herbs are from shen chang pharmaceuticals, a Taiwanese based pharmaceutical company. They are GMP(good manufacturing Practices) compliant. They don't use contaminated herb and they test their product for contamination and quality control.

Don't ever use non organic, non GMP herbs. Also, it's always a good idea to see a TCM doctor if your going to start dabbling in herbs for specific conditions...like kidney chi deficiency.

In 1996 I took myself one of the contaminated ginseng mentionned in the swiss report. I bought this at the pharmacy so I thought it was safe.. Hopefully I didn't take a lot of pills because of pois. (I don't know if the ginseng was organic and GMP, should it be "and" or "or" ?). I don't know the company you're mentionning. Even if you seem to know what you're doing I hope it was helpful for other people here.

[girlwind]

To Martin88 and Chewbacca:

The best Chinese herbs I've ever taken (the cleanest in terms of being free of toxins) are the Sun Ten powders,
that are distributed by Brion. There are only a few practitioners I know that use them, because they are more expensive.
But if you want the cleanest, safest, best quality herbs, these are IT. (I am very chemically sensitive and I have NEVER had
any toxic reaction from the Sun Ten herbs and I used them for 15 years straight.) This company is the ONLY one that
succeeded in winning a Prop. 65 lawsuit against them. (Check out the blurb below, or read all about it at this link:
http://www.brionherbs.com/index.html

"Of the numerous herbal companies sued to date, Sun Ten and Brion Herbs are the only companies who have successfully
fought the Proposition 65 suite by proving that their products were not in violation of the California law.

The allegations stated that all of the Sun Ten and Brion Herbs' formulations and single herbs were violation of Proposition 65.
Over a period of three years, Sun Ten Labs and Brion Herbs Corporation engaged in a process of costly research and methods
of verification of manufacturing processes, using an international team of esteemed soil experts, herbal experts, pre-eminent
academic experts, and scientists in realated fields to document that all their herbal products, manufacturing practices, sources
of herbs and the soils in which they were grown do not add any metal pollutants, and that heavy metals that occur naturally in
soils were reduced to the lowest levels possible. In this process they were able to demonstrate that all their products met the
requirements of Proposition 65.

The winning of this case establishes that Sun Ten and Brion Herbs Products are compliant with Proposition 65 require-
ments for heavy metals and that their manufacturing process supports the healthy results for which the products are
intended."

[Limejuice]

Interesting.  After all of my orgasms before taking Relora I hade insomina that night.

Also, I really don't want to stop taking Relora to get a blood test.  I know that sounds selfish, but I can't stand the symptoms.

Tarkington - What brand of Relora do you take?

I've been taking vitamin shoppe custom brand with only partical success.  Maybe the brand makes all the difference.

[demografx]

Tarkington - What brand of Relora do you take?

Limejuice, I saw your post so I thought I'd try out my new POIS Google-search method to find your answer.

I bought the Relora from Swanson Health for 7 dollars. 

Here is the link http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU148/ItemDetail?n=4294967189

As long as I'm using my POIS-Google search toy, I thought I'd find this disclaimer for you too.

IMPORTANT: ...RELORA - PLEASE READ!

From my pharmacology-lawyer friend:

RELORA

"Relora is a plant extract. Because the actual active ingredients are not discernible, there's no way to know what the interactions with other drugs might be. Therefore, I would recommend not taking it with Rx drugs,or with OTC drugs either.

This is what the manufacturer says: [Note the elevation in BP]

'side effects also include dizziness, trouble sleeping, and higher blood pressure.'  "

Limejuice (and others) - always a good idea to check out Relora - and other meds/supplements - with your healthcare professional advisor.

[demografx]

I have taken Relora for two weeks, and had to stop because I began feeling a bit too ampted up and had
trouble sleeping. At first I thought it could be other things I'm taking in addition (more iodine in diet and
the Ashwaganda), but just stopping the Relora brought me back down enough to get my sleep back. This
is puzzling.  Why would something that lowers cortisol give me insomnia...?  Any idea on this.

Girlwind, as my pharmacology-lawyer friend is quoted above, in my post to Limejuice, "relora side effects...include dizziness, trouble sleeping, and higher blood pressure." (But still puzzling considering the cortisol-lowering).

[girlwind]

Girlwind, as my pharmacology-lawyer friend is quoted above, in my post to Limejuice, "relora side effects...include dizziness, trouble sleeping, and higher blood pressure." (But still puzzling considering the cortisol-lowering).

I have REALLY low blood pressure, which apparently goes with adrenal fatigue. My high reading
for blood pressure is 100/60, my low can be as low as 87/50. So it still doesn't make sense why
it could amp me up....?

[Counterpoints]

Tarkington:

Aside from the Relora, have you been or are you taking any other medications/supplements?  Have you made any changes in your life or diet since you have noticed improvement? 

I believe you that the Relora is helping, but perhaps there are also other things at work.

Congratulations on your great success!  Thanks for sharing your story.  It will undoubtedly help many people.

Also: It is your choice whether or not to temporarily discontinue Relora.  For the most part, I am not suggesting anyone take a blood test for my benefit, but rather, for their own.  If you are being helped (by Relora) because you have an underlying adrenal gland problem, then it is likely in your best interests to find that out.  It may also be that Relora is helping you for some entirely different reason (other than cortisol).