[martin88]

I also tried bacopa a few years ago and there was no effect.
I'm wondering if a problem with phosphorus metabolism could be involved in pois.
My pois is improved with salmon and sardines (both are rich in phosphorus and vitamin D). Especially the salmon is clearly causing earlier NE for me (and I feel really good the day before the NE). Zinc, magnesium, b-complex, and others are all involved in phosphorus metabolism. ATP is made with phosphorus. Even Levitra has the name "phospho"diesterase in it, I don't know if it's significant. Also garlic (and ginseng) is rich in germanium which is increasing phosphorus.
http://www.acu-cell.com/gesi.html#TXTANC7D3921E361233E0
Garlic is known to have an action on energy but I don't know if germanium is involved. Low energy causes a physical stress and this is supposed to increase cortisol (thus increased cortisol would be a symptom more than a cause?). I'm now ready to return in the "I-don't- know-team" ! [] []

[mellivora]

Wow I've missed a lot on this forum since my last post. I can only apologise for not posting more regularly. I'm always impressed by the depth of contributions that forum members make. I wish I had some ground breaking news to post but unfortunately I don't. I appeared to have a little success with sporadic raw garlic eating after reading John21's positive experiences with garlic. My symptoms seemed reduced and on 2 occasions only lasted 2-3 days rather than the usual 5-7. Usually days 3 and 4 after orgasm are my worst days but by day 3 I was starting to feel ok again. I ate one clove a day for a few days, had a couple of days off from eating garlic (smelly breath is an issue!) and then had an orgasm and ate a garlic clove immediately after and another one the follwoing day. Its not possible to say the garlic definitely helped as this certainly wasn't a controlled experiment and of course its only a couple of events. Other times, taking garlic after orgasm (without any garlic beforehand) seems to have had little or no effect. Even if garlic does help I would guess its best to take it regularly over a period of time rather than just once after an orgasm. Of course I'm just speculating. I'm actually still a little optimistic that garlic may be able to help alleviate my symptoms to some extent if taken regularly. There are many pages of this forum for me to read since my last post and I'm sure others have written more about garlic and other things there - I look forward to catching up with your  experiences. I travel a bit and sometimes work funny hours and don't always have internet access.

In line with counterpoints and John21, I can say that physical exhaustion is not a symptom for me, mental exhaustion, brain fog, difficulty concentrating, difficulty in social situations etc is by far the most prominent and distressing aspect for me.

[mellivora]

Also very quickly.....
Last time I was posting I said I'd had a reply from the International Society for Sexual Medicine (ISSM). One of the doctors there was going to talk to Dr Waldinger about POIS. I see since then that Dr Waldinger has been in touch with the forum which is great news. I totally understand that the time he can spend on POIS is limited but its terrific to know he is aware of us. Everyone on this forum is doing a great job in chasing this illness down.

[CertainlyPOIS]

I have been taking relora with gralic and multivitamins for four days.  It makes me sleepy and at the same time makes me sleep unecessarily deep. I am scared wghen i stop taking relora it will mess up my sleep patterns. I have had two Nightly.E in a row and seem to have  less brain fog. But thought process still kinda slow. Memory seems to be better than usuall pois moment.
I will also note i havnt orgasm in montths. [] [] []

[demografx]

...I have had two Nightly.E in a row...I will also note i havnt orgasm in montths. [] [] []

Isn't a Nightly.E an orgasm?

[demografx]

...Everyone on this forum is doing a great job in chasing this illness down.

Thanks, mellivora, and great to see you back!

[demografx]

As POIS is hard to describe, evaluating it's intensity is equally difficult. 50%, 75% are very rough approximations.

Good point, John. I felt the same way when I saw someone report 65%.

I can confidently say I have never had physical exhaustion symptoms, but don't anyone think I got off easy, perhaps my mental exhaustion was all the more severe.  []

I have a hard time distinguishing my mental exhaustion from my physical!

I had an NE four days ago and I had zero symptoms again...

Congratulations!! John, do you recall ever having zero symptoms in the past when you weren't experimenting?

[John21 (OP)]

Demografx, yes there have been other times with zero symptoms later on in my life but over the course of my life I was normally symptomatic following any NE. For a certain period I had no symptoms and thought it was due to avoiding milk products that was helping me, but that turned out to be false so it must have been something else. Garlic is one possibility, vitamin D is another. Right now I am boggled yet optimistic. Perhaps soon I will simplify my supplementation to and see if symptoms return, at which point I'll start experimenting with some of these things individually. I will stay with regular garlic/D/yogurt with inulin/ and finish off the Bacopa bottle. If I continue to be without symptoms perhaps I will drop down to garlic+D.

[martin88]

John, I think everybody has a physical limit. It's possible to find this limit (with and without pois) by doing a long physical exercise. I'm not trying to push that you're physically exhausted in pois. I believe you when you say you're not. I was just trying to put light on our symptoms, to see if at least there is a variation for everybody in our physical energy during pois.

[John21 (OP)]

Martin, there has been no noticeable change in physical energy for me in POIS. Perhaps there might be a measurable difference if somehow my physical endurance was tested in POIS, but in my opinion it would be due to the fact that I wouldn't feel like expending energy due to the mental turmoil.

For all of you who are experimenting I suggest a POIS diary if you are not already doing so. When there are so many possible contributing factors and variable symptoms it is nice to be able to flip back and see where you have been. Of course this site serves the purpose somewhat, but a personal point-form version could be more detailed. I used to keep one years ago, I think I'll start one up again now that I am having some success.

[demografx]

Demografx, yes there have been other times with zero symptoms later on in my life but over the course of my life I was normally symptomatic following any NE. For a certain period I had no symptoms and thought it was due to avoiding milk products that was helping me, but that turned out to be false so it must have been something else. Garlic is one possibility, vitamin D is another. Right now I am boggled yet optimistic. Perhaps soon I will simplify my supplementation to and see if symptoms return, at which point I'll start experimenting with some of these things individually. I will stay with regular garlic/D/yogurt with inulin/ and finish off the Bacopa bottle. If I continue to be without symptoms perhaps I will drop down to garlic+D.

John, while you're at it, can you try something tastier? Say, ice cream? []

Kidding aside, this testing business is tricky!

[demografx]

Garlic and cortisol: similar to Relora?

"Recent research has shown that garlic along with a high-casein diet altered the body’s hormonal status, yielding lower levels of stress hormones such as cortisol. Other studies have shown that garlic may help increase testosterone levels. In general, the higher your testosterone levels, the lower your cortisol levels."

From http://www.flexonline.com.au/350.html
emphasis above is mine.

[martin88]

I have three full diaries in a closet!
Doing it on computer is probably better.
Nice article Demo. Except that I can't take a lot of vitamin C (it makes me feel extremely stressed, I could never find why. They're also talking about vitamin E 800 ui. More than 60ui and my lips start to be numb, it's scary when I have this. When I had this for the first time it was after taking my first and last 800ui dose of vitamin E.
But I have hope with cortisol, we'll see. I had high cortisol in the past but the endocrinologist did nothing for this. He said you have high cortisol and good bye ! I'm wondering if after a while, having elevated cortisol can cause adrenal exhaustion with cortisol deficiency.

[martin88]

Hi Mellivora, you are very rare here! If you didn't read all the precedent messages one important thing is Counterpoints's form here : http://pois.olympe-network.com/
Also I'm not sure if you have seen Girlwind's video :

Good luck.

[mellivora]

and great to see you back!

Thanks Demografx, its good to feel involved again. I hope I can stick around long enough in one stint this time to make a contribution even a hundredth as significant as those made by some of the regular writers on this forum who are making giant leaps for POIS sufferers. (Of course everyone who posts makes a significant contribution just by telling their own stories and brainstorming in their ideas).

Hi Mellivora, you are very rare here! If you didn't read all the precedent messages one important thing is Counterpoints's form here : http://pois.olympe-network.com/
Also I'm not sure if you have seen Girlwind's video :

Good luck.
Posted on: Today at 00:37:17Posted by: martin88 

This is a great post for me Martin88 -  thanks for taking time to update me and bring the questionnaire and finished video to my attention.

Counterpoints you've spent a lot of time and consideration putting the questionnaire together (helped by others on the forum) - thank you. It may take me a little while to complete but it looks great and I think  it is an important step.

Girlwind you've done a fantastic job with the video  - its a terrifically concise and accessible summary of what POIS, how it affects sufferers, and the current state of play with research. Thanks!

I've spent a good while reading posts today and I'm still only on page 52 (admittedly under the influence of POIS so I'm probably a bit slow). It really emphasises how active and determined this forum is and how much support we gain from visiting it.

[girlwind]

But I have hope with cortisol, we'll see. I had high cortisol in the past but the endocrinologist did nothing for this. He
said you have high cortisol and good bye ! I'm wondering if after a while, having elevated cortisol can cause adrenal
exhaustion with cortisol deficiency.

Martin: that's what happened to me. I initially and repeatedly had high cortisol, due to stress and illness, and
then eventually my adrenals became exhausted and crashed--which showed up as low levels of cortisol. After MANY
years of adrenal boosting supplements, I finally had normal levels last time in September. But because they're on the
low normal end of the scale, I know I'm not out of the woods yet. Also, I can tell from my symptoms, that I still need
adrenal boosting. It takes a long time to recharge drained adrenals. Too bad western medicine doesn't recognize this.

[demografx]

Thanks Jimmy03 but ED is off-topic, except if you have ED AND Pois. And is this case we recommand Levitra.

Thanks, B_Jim, for the alert. I deleted his post, he's apparently selling Vigra via his website.

[demografx]

I'm still waiting to discuss with him more of his IL-6/POIS theory. He was busy this weekend.

----- Original Message -----

From:      [HIV biophysicist]
To:        [demografx]
Sent:      Monday, November 10, 2008 5:51 AM
Subject:   RE: IL-6

Glucocorticoids (like cortisol) have a suppressive effect on the production of inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-6. 

That would seems to work counter to what you suggest – lower cortisol would increase IL-6 and symptoms.  Nonetheless, you might read the enclosed (which deals with symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome):

http://www.cfids.org/archives/2003rr/2003-rr2-article02.asp

Sorry to be so telegraphic.  I’m currently a little under water.

-----------------------------------------------------

From:        [demografx]
Sent:         Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:40 PM
To:          [HIV biophysicist]
Subject:      IL-6

Does IL-6 affect cortisol? POIS Forum sufferers are having preliminarily good results testing Relora, a plant, which lowers cortisol.

[Limejuice]

I have results using Fenugreek.

Fenugreek reduced my POIS symptoms 90% after ejaculation.  I used fenugreek two days prior to testing and ejaculated three times in a row.

Observations - The symptoms are near null but with a cost.  What cost?  Ready carefully, the cost was a less intense orgasm...I mean way less intense.  The sum of all three orgasms wasn't even equal to an 'O' before the fenugreek.

Conclusion - Maybe people who experience POIS have more intense orgasms.  I was addicted to masterbating 10 years ago because it felt so damn good.  And now it feels just as good (but I chose not to be addicted by reducing 'O's).  Maybe our orgasms are more intense because our bodies hormones flood during orgasms or tweak out somehow.  On fenugreek my orgasms were good but not insane like usual.  Fenugreek reduced the orgasm intensity and reduced my symptoms.

So does orgasm intensity = POIS symptoms intensity?  If so, sex could be compared to drugs or alcohol - the more intense the rush/high/orgasm, the better you feel but a worst recovery/low.

Does anyone else have this experience?

*****Note*****  The vitamin shoppe fenugreek did not reduce 'O' intensity or symptoms.  The Solgar Fenugreek worked.  Brand is important. 

[Limejuice]

*** Edit *** Important results on the last post on page 84


Nocturnal Emissions - Prevention

I suffered from NE's for years with POIS symptoms I didn't even provoke.  Two years ago a found the solution.  It's easy. I slept on my side - that's it.  When I slept on my stomach I ejaculated...when I slept on my back I ejaculated.  I trained myself to sleep on my side all night which was tough because of rolling over and whatnot.

It worked for me and I've NE'd maybe twice in the last 3 years.  I hope this technique will help someone else.