[martin88]

FENUGREEK UPDATE
On Wednesday night, I took 6 Solgar fenugreek capsules 2.5 hours before release. 

Guthrie, do you think it's ok to take 6 capsules when only 3 are recommended by Solgar ? Remember about the possible hypokalemia with fenugreek.
From Solgar :
DIRECTIONS FOR USE: As an herbal food supplement for adults, one (1) to three (3) Vegetable Capsules daily, preferably at mealtime, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.

I read also that licorice can cause hypokalemia. Both herbs have been mentionned in this forum to help with pois.(Licorice+hypokalemia in google gives a lot of results.)
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/clineu/article/PIIS0303846703000428/abstract

[Guthrie]

Guthrie, do you think it's ok to take 6 capsules when only 3 are recommended by Solgar ? Remember about the possible hypokalemia with fenugreek.
From Solgar :
DIRECTIONS FOR USE: As an herbal food supplement for adults, one (1) to three (3) Vegetable Capsules daily, preferably at mealtime, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.

I read also that licorice can cause hypokalemia. Both herbs have been mentionned in this forum to help with pois.(Licorice+hypokalemia in google gives a lot of results.)
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/clineu/article/PIIS0303846703000428/abstract

Martin88, you are right that I (and the rest of us) should be careful with the fenugreek (as well as the other remedies we are trying).  However, Solgar's own page on Fenugreek says the following:

How much is usually taken?

Due to the somewhat bitter taste of fenugreek seeds, de-bitterized seeds or encapsulated products are preferred. The German Commission E monograph recommends a daily intake of 6 grams.(footnote 11) The typical range of intake for diabetes or cholesterol-lowering is 5–30 grams with each meal or 15–90 grams all at once with one meal. As a tincture, 3–4 ml of fenugreek can be taken up to three times per day.

http://www.solgar.co.uk/healthnotes/healthnotes.asp?org=boots&ContentID=2090006

So, they seems to be a pretty wide range, up to 90 grams (= 180 capsules!) a day.  The low end, 6 grams per day, would still be equivalent to about 12 Solgar fenugreek capsules.

I guess the question would still be: how much fenugreek does it take to cause hypokalemia?  I didn't see any sources on that issue.  Are 6 capsules per day problematic?  3 capsules? 1 capsule?  Presumably, fenugreek in excess is not good, but what should we count as 'excess'? 

[girlwind]

Guthrie, do you think it's ok to take 6 capsules when only 3 are recommended by Solgar ? Remember about the possible hypokalemia with fenugreek.
From Solgar :
DIRECTIONS FOR USE: As an herbal food supplement for adults, one (1) to three (3) Vegetable Capsules daily, preferably at mealtime, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.

I read also that licorice can cause hypokalemia. Both herbs have been mentionned in this forum to help with pois.(Licorice+hypokalemia in google gives a lot of results.)
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/clineu/article/PIIS0303846703000428/abstract

"Hypokalemia refers to the condition in which the concentration of potassium in the blood is low." (Wikipedia)
Maybe one way to insure that potassium levels stay at an optimal range would be to take a mineral supplement with the fenugreek.
If magnesium levels in the blood drop, that can also cause hypokalemia. So probably a mineral supplement which includes all the
major electrolytes and some of the trace minerals might be a good thing. Or... you could eat bananas with your fenugreek.   []

[CertainlyPOIS]

Dear Ms. blank,
This is the first I have heard of this condition.  Do you have any insight
into factors that initiate the condition?  Is there any common theme among
the sufferers?  At what age(s) does it start?
Does it ever clear up spontaneously?  Once it starts does orgasm from any
type of stimulation (self or other) produce the same set of symptoms?
Please let me know.
Barry R. Komisaruk, Ph.D.

HI every one second response from other author, can you please help me answer those questions.

[CertainlyPOIS]

My final report on fenugreek. Two before orgasm and two after orgasm.     
brain fogginess gone I can read now even into the night.
total exhaustion reduced alot.
cognitve skills still impaired
memory still impaired.   

[Guthrie]

My final report on fenugreek. Two before orgasm and two after orgasm.     
brain fogginess gone I can read now even into the night.
total exhaustion reduced alot.
cognitve skills still impaired
memory still impaired.  

CCconfucius, your experience with fenugreek sounds VERY similar to my own!

I wonder if anything can be concluded from the fact that it seems to affect some symptoms more than others.  Is the brain fog the 'tip of the iceberg', which is affected first?  Or is the brain fog caused by a separate imbalance, which fenugreek can correct, while the other symptoms are caused by a different imbalance, which fenugreek is less able to correct?  Hmm...

[martin88]

what should we count as 'excess'? 

Perhaps you're right Guthrie, I really don't know, but personally I'd count as excess what solgar says on the label of their product since this information probably come here for a reason.

Note that the product you're taking does not contain only fenugreek powder but also an extract, so this means probably "more concentrate" ? I'm in the unknown but I just wanted to point this out.
http://www.solgar.com/labels/imgviewer.aspx?vitamin=/getattachment/79add47b-e750-4f98-8dd1-ce26853db3a8/FP-Fenugreek-Vegetable-Capsules.aspx&swf_width=469&swf_height=155


Girlwind if the good effect for pois is because potassium is slightly reduced then maybe it won't work to cure pois !

Bananas is a good source of potassium. You can also take dried apricots which are a lot more rich in potassium.
But maybe it won't make a difference if potassium is not absorbed at a cellular level because of fenugreek..

[CertainlyPOIS]

Confucius, it's great for your email ! At least we are sure they were not shocked by our problems with orgasm, like other organisms could eventually be if they were not accustomed to letters about sex. Perhaps it would be a good thing not to initially mention about orgasmic problems when we'll send letters in the future.

Martin else are we to get interest if the problems are not mentioned, these two authors wrote a book on orgasm so i was not really expecting any shock.

[CertainlyPOIS]

CCconfucius, your experience with fenugreek sounds VERY similar to my own!

I wonder if anything can be concluded from the fact that it seems to affect some symptoms more than others.  Is the brain fog the 'tip of the iceberg', which is affected first?  Or is the brain fog caused by a separate imbalance, which fenugreek can correct, while the other symptoms are caused by a different imbalance, which fenugreek is less able to correct?  Hmm...

I guess we can test that by continuing usage of fenugreek and see effects.

I will use three fenugreek pills a day untill recovery time and post its effects.

[CertainlyPOIS]

I thought oxytocin was also a main chemical in breast feeding.
 
Oxytocin is also not suppose to cross he brain blood barrier but why does the brain has neurons for it.

[martin88]

[I have updated my precedent post about potassium and bananas.]

Martin else are we to get interest if the problems are not mentioned, these two authors wrote a book on orgasm so i was not really expecting any shock.

Sometimes secretaries delete emails for nothing...
In the first email, perhaps we can initially ask for a direct contact with a doctor or whatever person in charge about "a medical condition" or "new disease".. Then it could be important to mention the name of this person in the second email since people are more receptive to emails when they read their name.

[demografx]

ONSET OF POIS

I have a question. Did anyone start to experience POIS only years after puberty? My reason for asking is that I can't really recall when POIS started for me. As we know, sometimes it takes a few years to catch on to the fact that the POIS sysmptoms are due to orgasm. The symptoms may have also been delayed for a day or so, which contributes to the difficulty of connecting orgasm to the result.

[martin88]

Guthrie, independently of what I said before I want to add that your experience reported here is really helpful for us, I'm grateful for this.

Demo, my pois came in the middle of the puberty, at 15. I suppose puberty was started before the first ejaculation at 12-13.

[Guthrie]

what should we count as 'excess'? 

Perhaps you're right Guthrie, I really don't know, but personally I'd count as excess what solgar says on the label of their product since this information probably come here for a reason.

Note that the product you're taking does not contain only fenugreek powder but also an extract, so this means probably "more concentrate" ? I'm in the unknown but I just wanted to point this out.

Martin88, I agree with you that the fenugreek extract is probably more concetrated, so that is something to take into account.

However, my sense of the recommended dose on the label, and for many of these herbal supplements in general, does not refer to the maximum dose possible before reaching "in excess."  Rather, I think that it often means "the amount that is thought to be effective in most cases"--but that does not mean that taking more is necessarily harmful.  For some things, it may be necessary to take more than the average recommended amount--as long as it not known to be dangerous.  That is, there may be a difference between the amount geared towards a general health supplement, and the amount for targeting particular illnesses or imabalances.

But, that still doesn't tell us what the maximum safe amount is for fenugreek in particular...so I don't know what to say.

[Guthrie]

Guthrie, independently of what I said before I want to add that your experience reported here is really helpful for us, I'm grateful for this.

Thanks for the encouragement.  I do also appreciate your watchfulness in pointing out potential health dangers.

[underwater]

Demo---
Onset of POIS for me was most likely around age 40, however I may have sensed some very subtle symptoms considerably earlier perhaps around age 26/27. I vaguely recall feeling strange at times in my late 20's. One thing I am certain of is that when I began serious long distance running and yoga (1977) I felt fantastic. This feeling lasted well into the late 80's. Without question my POIS clearly emerged during a very stressful period and has remained (last 20 years). For me personally, I've always felt (last 10 yrs.) that I lacked the balancing/inhibitory neurotransmitters to counteract the "so called" excitatory hormones & neurotransmitters. I still hold to this viewpoint.

[tarkington]

Relora experiementing -

I've taken relora a couple days and will share my results (Demo style).

Day 0:
- Take 2 relora and hour prior to orgasm
- Release
- Take another relora an hour later - I feel extreme relaxation
- Two hours later I have a POUNDING headache.  I never get headaches. It was so intense that I began sweating profusely, ran to the shower and sprayed my head with cold water.  It was pretty aweful.  20 minutes later it finally went away.
- Four hours after release no POIS symptoms

Day 1
- No POIS symptoms...I mean absolutely none.  This is bazzar as heck.  That headache yesterday was redic.  What will tomorrow hold?

That is amazing that Relora removed your symptoms.  But the headache doesn't seem healthy.  Let us know if the headaches continue.

[SteveD]

ONSET OF POIS

I have a question. Did anyone start to experience POIS only years after puberty? My reason for asking is that I can't really recall when POIS started for me. As we know, sometimes it takes a few years to catch on to the fact that the POIS symptoms are due to orgasm.

Demo,

I knew the moment I was orgasmic, at 16,  with masturbating , that there was something seriously wrong with the way I reacted to masturbation. That persisted, in varying degrees, until I stopped masturbating 18 1/2 years ago.

Orgasmic sexuality with a partner, though, was completely okay from 16 until 36. That' the first time I noticed POIS for what it was really was, for me..."A decline from the level of health that only chastity brings, for me, brought about conclusively by orgasm, however, also, with health incrementally diminishing, inversely proportionally, to the increasing levels of pre-orgasmic sexual activities."

Dat's about it...

[SteveD]

Demo---
Onset of POIS for me was most likely around age 40. One thing I am certain of is that when I began serious long distance running and yoga (1977) I felt fantastic.

Underwater,

I am taking this to the bank. What's working for me is to negotiate no genital contact with my partner, one day at a time, and then work out very,very hard.
Today I did 35" of yoga and core work and 35" of strength/endurance on machines, yesterday I ran 3 miles, Wednesday one hour of yoga/core/ weights and Tuesday 90 minutes of swimming!!!

I feel like my life is coming back.

[SteveD]

However, oxytocine has been suggested to
negatively interfere with cognition (Geenen et al., 1988).

Interesting!  I googled the article, and also came across another, more recent one, which also indicates that oxytocin can interfere with memory:

Guthrie,

This makes sense to me. When I'm in a POIS episode I find it hard to reach for my vocabulary and sometimes I find it difficult to pronounce words