[deloun]

I've added some things, added things are green:

POIS catecholamines theory

Deloun, fascinating compilation! And it explains/makes sense of my success with Levitra/testosterone/stimulants, so thank you.

You're very welcome. Very nice that the combination is working for you again!

[deloun]

Deloun:

Intrigued by the connection between catecholamines and POIS that you present although I am not sure I understand the whole story. (Over)simplified view would probably be that catecholamines are lost with semen. Then body is short of dopamine and adrenaline.

What strikes a chord with me is that I do feel that I have a dopamine shortage during POIS.  Not much scientific backing for this except the book/movie "Awakenings".  Oliver Sachs there realizes that certain catatonic patients are dopamine deprived.  He theorizes they feel like they have no will from inside themselves even though they can react to outside stimuli.  For instance, the patients come alive (sort of) to catch a tennis ball thrown at them.  This is how I feel during POIS plus I become quite good at catching tennisballs, not kidding.

Well, I don't believe that only the loss of semen could cause a decrease of catecholamines. Sexual activity itself (before orgasm) also seems to trigger a process in the body which has an effect on noradrenaline, and after sexual activity, even when an orgasm hasn't been reached, the amount of noradrenaline decreases rapidly. In the scientific research that I've linked to in reference number one in the catecholamines theory post (in the full text in the PDF) this is shown.

Nice comparison you make with the movie. Nice movie too, by the way.

[demografx]

Actually I'm feeling much better right now, since I began that cortisol treatment.

Nice to hear!

[demografx]

Has anybody tried 5 hour energy? I would say it releives a bit of the pois, i tried some yesterday, but only a couple sips not even half of the bottle.

It worked for me somewhat, but in addition to caffeine + prescribed stimulants/psychiatric meds, it was way too much (overstimulation) so I cut it out.

[demografx]

MICHAEL8028: REPLY TO HIS POSTED POIS CURE FROM MY UNIVERSITY ENDOCRINOLOGIST.

"Most of the post is scientifically untenable. Saliva tests are very inaccurate. Unless I see real blood test results, done in a reputable lab, from this patient I'd ignore it. Sorry to be so dismissive but I've had experience with these false sirens before."

[girlwind]

MICHAEL8028: REPLY TO HIS POSTED POIS CURE BY MY UNIVERSITY ENDOCRINOLOGIST.

"Most of the post is scientifically untenable. Saliva tests are very inaccurate. Unless I see real blood test results, done in a reputable lab, from this patient I'd ignore it. Sorry to be so dismissive but I've had experience with these false sirens before."

That's a very predictable opinion. Unfortunately you can't argue with RESULTS.

[demografx]

MICHAEL8028: REPLY TO HIS POSTED POIS CURE BY MY UNIVERSITY ENDOCRINOLOGIST.

"Most of the post is scientifically untenable. Saliva tests are very inaccurate. Unless I see real blood test results, done in a reputable lab, from this patient I'd ignore it. Sorry to be so dismissive but I've had experience with these false sirens before."

That's a very predictable opinion. Unfortunately you can't argue with RESULTS.

To the extent that they're believable.

[girlwind]

MICHAEL8028: REPLY TO HIS POSTED POIS CURE BY MY UNIVERSITY ENDOCRINOLOGIST.

"Most of the post is scientifically untenable. Saliva tests are very inaccurate. Unless I see real blood test results, done in a reputable lab, from this patient I'd ignore it. Sorry to be so dismissive but I've had experience with these false sirens before."

That's a very predictable opinion. Unfortunately you can't argue with RESULTS.

To the extent that they're believable.

Why would Michael LIE and make up ALL that information. I think you are being very quick to dismiss and disregard
someone who made a BIG effort to get his health back, and who was willing to share a HUGE amount of very helpful
and useful information with everyone on this forum. I also think it's very UNSCIENTIFIC for any doctor to be so pre-
sumptuous about a patient that he hasn't EVEN SEEN.

So far, everything Michael has helped ME with in my own pursuit of health and healing from both POIS and CFS has
panned out to be right on the money. If I have to pick btwn Michael's PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of healing himself, and
your know-it-all endo doctor's knee jerk opinion, that's an easy choice for me.

[demografx]

If I have to pick btwn Michael's PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of healing himself, and
your know-it-all endo doctor's knee jerk opinion, that's an easy choice for me.

And I will stick to my world-class University research professor/endocrinologist, with over 30 years experience who has seen many 20-something athletes.

This forum needs balance, truth and integrity. I'm just presenting the opposite side, and I happen to believe them.

You might be right! At this time, I'm following the same intuition that has served me successfully throughout my life. I could be wrong!

I, and many others, have been misled on the Internet quite often. But for your sake, I hope this is an exception.

I have other educated opinions from listmembers that also influence me, but I will not post them for now.

Enough said, let people here make up their minds. We have presented enough information for people to make a decision.

[demografx]

Why would Michael LIE and make up ALL that information.

Not a lie, but many people are very wary of statements made over the Internet, sight unseen. We don't know the exact meaning of a "cure", how long, will it replicate with anyone else?, how sustainable, how much of a risk all the intake is, who is willing to go to that strenuous a regimen, etc., and how medically sound this all is for someone who is NOT a 24-year old male athlete!

You are predisposed to this type of info, I am very skeptical. But I certainly appreciate it being laid out for others to consider.

[Counterpoints]

To all those considering cortisol tests...
I would highly recommmend getting a 24 hr urine cortisol test, in addition to an AM blood test.  I have taken several AM blood tests.. some have been high-normal, some have been above reference.  But the 24 hr urine test raised an obvious red flag, which my endocrinologist really paid attention to.  I have a feeling I may have been dismissed if it were not for the 24 hr urine test result (which another physician ordered).

Also, demografx, you might want to mention Cushings, adrenocortical carcinoma, and pheochromocytoma, to your endocrinologist.  These problems can (edit: RAISE) prolactin, and (edit: LOWER) testosterone.  And they are somewhat consistent with your history.

[Counterpoints]

Important question:  Has anyone noticed weight gain? (especially in the stomach and face?).  Despite attempts to lose it?  Also, any rashes, or thinning skin, or acne? (especially in face area).  These symptoms can be caused by high cortisol.

[demografx]

Also, demografx, you might want to mention Cushings, adrenocortical carcinoma, and pheochromocytoma, to your endocrinologist.  These problems can lower prolactin, and testosterone.  And they are somewhat consistent with your history.

My prolactin's very high, not low. But thanks for thinking of me.

[underwater]

Belief, Skepticism and Someplace in between:
I've noticed some interesting discussion about a Poster's (Michael's) purported cure of POIS. On one hand, I think it's quite natural for a reader to doubt any answer that is proffered as true. On the other hand, I think it's important for the reader to make the asumption that what a Poster reports is based upon his/her honest belief in the truthfulness of what he/she is stating. A constructive dialogue and/or further consideration may resolve uncertainties.

Personally, I have some doubts as to "how" this Poster came to achieve his cure. I believe, however, his POIS was cured. The medical explanations are quite convincing, and there is an enthusiastic, good faith voice in his presentation. Nevertheless, I think his cure was a combination of things that suggest a slightly different narrative than the one implied. This is my take: I believe that a cessation of physiologically harmful behaviour was as important a factor in his "recovery" as were his therapeutic decisions that were made along the way to a "cure". Recovery or a Cure? Or a combination of the two? Poster stated on page 137, "I burnt my adrenals out in my late teens by overtraining in boxing and mixing that with overdrinking spirits (straight bottles of vodka, brandy etc.)and taking too many stimulants and partying with very little sleep for a few years. I didn't notice the adrenal fatigue till around age 21..." I submit that most physicians would first look for a possible cause for a disease before assuming a natural biochemical imbalance. In this case, I think we have a clear (honestly stated) contributing cause, the cessation of which, along with the interventions described, BOTH may have played a part in the "recovery" or "cure", as one may be inclined to choose as the most appropriate description. My position is that it is Someplace in between.

[demografx]

Underwater, that was very interesting. As you point out, it wasn't an intention to deceive.

[martin88]

MICHAEL8028: REPLY TO HIS POSTED POIS CURE FROM MY UNIVERSITY ENDOCRINOLOGIST.

"Most of the post is scientifically untenable. Saliva tests are very inaccurate. Unless I see real blood test results, done in a reputable lab, from this patient I'd ignore it. Sorry to be so dismissive but I've had experience with these false sirens before."

This is interesting and important. He says he has had experience with these false sirens before. I don't think he's lying too. However I'd like to know to which hormones he's referring. We found studies saying that saliva tests for cortisol were acurate, so maybe he's referring to saliva tests for testosterone or other hormones than cortisol ?
I was planning to do several tests from differents labs at the same time to compare results. 

[demografx]

MICHAEL8028: REPLY TO HIS POSTED POIS CURE FROM MY UNIVERSITY ENDOCRINOLOGIST.

"Most of the post is scientifically untenable. Saliva tests are very inaccurate. Unless I see real blood test results, done in a reputable lab, from this patient I'd ignore it. Sorry to be so dismissive but I've had experience with these false sirens before."

This is interesting and important. He says he has had experience with these false sirens before. I don't think he's lying too. However I'd like to know to which hormones he's referring. We found studies saying that saliva tests for cortisol were acurate, so maybe he's referring to saliva tests for testosterone or other hormones than cortisol ?
I was planning to do several tests from differents labs at the same time to compare results. 

Martin, at first I thought testosterone and prolactin, the 2 critical hormones for me and Michael. But his post refers to "saliva and urine" tests on a variety of hormones as well, so it's hard to tell.

[demografx]

POIS DIARY

I kept pinching myself (figuratively) today, hoping the dream wouldn't end: 90%+ POIS-free! Can it be as simple as testosterone patches and Levitra that reverse this dreadful nightmare of 30+ years? I wish every POIS sufferer a day like today for a lifetime!

Placebo effect seems less likely: I sustained this result for many months before, probably over a year. I just wasn't smart enough to see that it was the combination that worked, and that neither testosterone or Levitra worked alone to combat my POIS sufficiently.

[Counterpoints]

Also, demografx, you might want to mention Cushings, adrenocortical carcinoma, and pheochromocytoma, to your endocrinologist.  These problems can lower prolactin, and testosterone.  And they are somewhat consistent with your history.

My prolactin's very high, not low. But thanks for thinking of me.

I meant raise prolactin, and lower testosterone.

[demografx]

concencentration of hormones in saliva is very weak : that's why it can be inaccurate.

B_Jim, isn't this what my endo is saying? He never said "only blood tests are scientific". He just believes saliva is inaccurate.