[demografx]

CP, thanks for clarifying that it's strictly internal factors you're wondering about. In your case, have you speculated what those internal variables could be?

[demografx]

B_Jim, who else (POIS-types) do you think could benefit from magnesium?

[martin88]

Vitamin D and magnesium regulation is complex.
So it's another argument to not abuse Vitamin D supplement. We need a normal level of vitamin D, not more.

Interesting B_Jim. From what I feel personally I think it's the same for a lot of nutritional supplements. and that's why I prefer low doses.

Here a study confirming what you're saying about vit D, and showing a link between  vitamin D depletion and testicular function/size :

The effect of vitamin D-repletion on testicular function in vitamin D-deficient male rats was also reported (10). This study has clearly shown that reduced reproductive capacity and fertility due to disturbances in Sertoli and Leydig cell functions in vitamin D deficient male rats is reversed by administration of  an optimal dose of vitamin D. However, a high dose of vitamin D administration, in this study, deteriorated the testicular function in vitamin D-deficient male rats.

In conclusion, Vitamin D is necessary for testicular functions, such as spermatogenesis, in chickens and rats. Development of the seminiferous tubules of vitamin D-depleted chickens was impaired, and normal histological appearance of the seminiferous tubules was destroyed. Further research at the molecular level are needed to reveal the exact effects of vitamin D-depletion in chicken testes.

http://www.isrvma.org/article/57_3_3.htm

[martin88]

An other interesting study saying that a low dose supplement of vitamin A (with iron)is as efficient as testosterone therapy for delayed puberty and testicular function:

Supplements of iron and vitamin A are as effective as androgen for constitutional delayed growth and puberty (CDGP), according to the results of a randomized study published in the June issue of Clinical Endocrinology.

After six months of vitamin A supplementation, growth acceleration was similar to that seen in the oxandrolone- and testosterone-treated children and significantly greater than in the observation group. In the vitamin A-supplemented group, puberty, defined as an increase in testicular volume of 12 mL, was induced within 12 months

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&cluster=4304803166635927309&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=X9kjSvaXI5ThtgfLq7y0Bg&sa=X&oi=science_links&resnum=1&ct=sl-allversions


And an other similar for vitamin K :
Vitamin K deficiency reduces testosterone production in the testis through down-regulation of the Cyp11a a cholesterol side chain cleavage enzyme in rats

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1W-4K48KGD-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=90e4d2e00b06dec85fea4b516ea4749d

[Pronobis]

Magnesium definitely reduces my Pois symptoms.

---

Vitamin D and Mg .

Vitamin D increases mg intestinal absobtion especially when there is a deficiency.
but
Excessive Vitamin D increases urinary mg excretion.

Vitamin D and magnesium regulation is complex.
So it's another argument to not abuse Vitamin D supplement. We need a normal level of vitamin D, not more.

---

I tried magnesium (my doctor prescribed me to avoid the fatigue), I didn't feel any difference. May be because I took it only 1 week.

[beyondfrustrated]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post. I found this forum a few days ago by googling something like "I can't concentrate after orgasm" or "exhausted after orgasm". I can't remember which one it was, but either way, I'm very excited to know I'm not alone. I must start with an apology for not reading all of your posts before posting. I read about 24 pages and then skipped to the end, so if I ask or say something that's already been covered, forgive me.

Here is my story.

I think this may have started when I was a teenager, or maybe earlier. I'm not really sure. I always had a hard time concentrating and staying awake in school, even in grade school, but things got much worse as I became a teenager. Basically, I started masturbating a lot in high school. I did it so much that it became my escape from reality. It was like crack to me.(Can over masturbation cause problems?) I also smoked a lot of pot around this time and I started having bad panic attacks. My doctor put me on Paxil for several years to treat the panic attacks, and it did work, but I felt like a robot with no emotion. I just couldn't deal with that. I am now in my early thirties, and I just figured out that I have a POIS problem. I can't believe it took me this long to figure it out! What a joke!

Anyway, my symptoms are the following: (and they can last up to 3 days)
1. Extreme exhaustion (to the point that it can be difficult to climb three flights of stairs!)
2. Brain FOG!!! (I'm mentally useless)
3. anxious, nervous and irritable
4. I've also been noticing slight indigestion lately, but it may just be a coincidence.

I don't take any drugs (other than an occasional beer and an occasional cigarette)
My diet is kind of crappy (not enough vegetables, fruit, or water)
I'm quite a bit under weight (I'm 6ft tall 142lbs)
I'm a sex addict (it is my drug of choice)
I feel like crap after any form of ejaculation (whether it be sex, masturbation, or a wet dream) though sometimes my POIS symptoms only last about 1.5 days.
I strongly believe in Jesus Christ, but I was not raised by strict religous parents.

Here are some questions I would love for you to answer

1. Are you underweight or overweight?
2. Do you suffer from anxiety attacks?
3. Do you have low self esteem issues?
4. Do you suffer from bouts of severe depression?
5. Do you, or have you, taken antidepressants or other antipsychotic drugs? And if so, how long did you take them?
6. Do you eat healthy?
7. Do you exercise?
8. Do you hit REM sleep on a regular basis?
9. Do you have issues with sex (are you a sex addict? Do you think about sex all the time? Is sex one of the main focuses of your life?)
9. Are you religious?

More than anything else, I would like to know how many of you take or have taken antidepressants or antipaychotic drugs.
Could POIS be a result of these drugs???

Again, I'm sorry if much of this has already been covered. I just couldn't make it through all 191 pages.

Let's figure this out!!!

[John21 (OP)]

POIS Update,
 I have had some more success, and I believe it is due to Relora. Last week I had two orgasms a day apart and I have had no symptoms since then. In the days following each one I consumed some Relora (and garlic as well).  I waited a week to post because I often have the “Phase B” that hits later on (a burnt out feeling), but nothing yet.  Last night I had an NE and this morning I took ½ a capsule of Relora. We’ll see what happens.

Beyondfrustrated,
Welcome,  I am glad you found us.  I will answer your questions as if it was many years ago in the depths of my POIS (when I was more sexually active), and also from today’s perspective.

1. Are you underweight or overweight?
2. Do you suffer from anxiety attacks?
3. Do you have low self esteem issues?
4. Do you suffer from bouts of severe depression?
5. Do you, or have you, taken antidepressants or other antipsychotic drugs? And if so, how long did you take them?
6. Do you eat healthy?
7. Do you exercise?
8. Do you hit REM sleep on a regular basis?
9. Do you have issues with sex (are you a sex addict? Do you think about sex all the time? Is sex one of the main focuses of your life?)
9. Are you religious?

1.   No/Same
2.   In POIS I have high anxiety/ Same
3.   Perhaps yes, due to awareness of a my secret truth (POIS)/ Same
4.   No/ Same
5.   Very limited pot in my youth after POIS began/ Took SSRI’s (neither causal to POIS)
6.   So-so/ Yes
7.   No /Yes
8.   Yes/ Have sleep issues, so I guess not always
9.   Yes/ No
9.   No/Yes

[demografx]

beyondfrustrated, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!



The consensus at this forum to heal your POIS, is to start with hormonal bloodtesting, preferably with an endocrinologist.
 
Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send "Pyropeach" a Private Message with your regular email address and he'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around the recipient's name, e.g., "pyropeach".

New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse


In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. In other words, "IT'S NOT ALL IN OUR HEADS!"

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 300,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

[demografx]

POIS Update,

 I have had some more success, and I believe it is due to Relora.

John, so happy to hear that!








John gets special congratulations, because without John having posted the very first post here two years ago, this forum wouldn't be here! AND...he stayed to contribute more and more!

[demografx]

1. Are you underweight or overweight? SOME OF THE LATTER
2. Do you suffer from anxiety attacks? NO, BUT HIGH ANXIETY NOW AND THEN
3. Do you have low self esteem issues? SOMETIMES
4. Do you suffer from bouts of severe depression? NO LONGER, WITH MEDS
5. Do you, or have you, taken antidepressants or other antipsychotic drugs? And if so, how long did you take them? YES, ANTI-D's FOR 20 YEARS
6. Do you eat healthy? MOSTLY, BUT ALSO SOME SWEETS
7. Do you exercise? UNFORTUNATELY, VERY LITTLE
8. Do you hit REM sleep on a regular basis? YES
9. Do you have issues with sex (are you a sex addict? Do you think about sex all the time? Is sex one of the main focuses of your life?) INTERMITTENTLY AND INFREQUENTLY
9. Are you religious? NO

[Pronobis]

1. Are you underweight or overweight? I weaken and lose weight with POIS
2. Do you suffer from anxiety attacks? a little
3. Do you have low self esteem issues? a little
4. Do you suffer from bouts of severe depression? no
5. Do you, or have you, taken antidepressants or other antipsychotic drugs? And if so, how long did you take them? no
6. Do you eat healthy? Like student does ... so no ))
7. Do you exercise? not now, but same with when I was doing
8. Do you hit REM sleep on a regular basis? Never had a sleep problem
9. Do you have issues with sex (are you a sex addict? Do you think about sex all the time? Is sex one of the main focuses of your life?) I am very excited and sex addict
9. Are you religious? No

[demografx]

Martin, I think you made the suggestion recently that in-POIS, it's better to keep moving in spite of our natural desire to rest and be relatively motionless.

I saw this today so well! The endocrinologist appointment "pushed" me out of the house. When I was out, I pushed myself to do some more minor errands, and with the nice weather (sunshine, perfect temperature for me, etc.) it felt good!

But once home, it was so difficult to avoid couchpotatoness (I just fabricated that word) - i.e., the couch.

Terrific meeting with my endo today. Will write more later.

[beyondfrustrated]

Thanks for your reply guys!

demografx,
I will definitely check out those resources when I have some free time. Thanks!

I'm on day 3 today and I'm feeling mentally and physically sharp! If only I could feel this good on day 1!!!!


I think I'm going to try getting more sleep, eating better, and maybe I'll try a few herbal supplements such as Saint Johns Wort. I have a feeling it may help a little. Any of you guys try this?

I did recently notice that when I keep busy my POIS symtoms seem to dissipate a little. It makes me wonder if some of my POIS symtoms may be mental. I definitely think it's more chemical than anything but it's hard to say.

[martin88]

Martin, I think you made the suggestion recently that in-POIS, it's better to keep moving in spite of our natural desire to rest and be relatively motionless.

I saw this today so well! The endocrinologist appointment "pushed" me out of the house. When I was out, I pushed myself to do some more minor errands, and with the nice weather (sunshine, perfect temperature for me, etc.) it felt good!

But once home, it was so difficult to avoid couchpotatoness (I just fabricated that word) - i.e., the couch.

Terrific meeting with my endo today. Will write more later.

Unfortunately moving is definitely not a 100% cure. But it helps.

I'm looking forward to read your post about your endo!

1. Are you underweight or overweight?I'd say underweight but normal according to this http://apps.who.int/bmi/index.jsp?introPage=intro_3.html
2. Do you suffer from anxiety attacks? yes
3. Do you have low self esteem issues?yes
4. Do you suffer from bouts of severe depression?yes
5. Do you, or have you, taken antidepressants or other antipsychotic drugs? And if so, how long did you take them? no
6. Do you eat healthy?yes
7. Do you exercise?yes but no cardio
8. Do you hit REM sleep on a regular basis? Maybe no.I don't know.
9. Do you have issues with sex (are you a sex addict? Do you think about sex all the time? Is sex one of the main focuses of your life?) sometimes
9. Are you religious? yes & no

[martin88]

I tried magnesium (my doctor prescribed me to avoid the fatigue), I didn't feel any difference. May be because I took it only 1 week.

Hi Pronobis, magnesium has no effect for me too but when I was younger it was very helpful for pois. I suppose that I'm not using it like before, I don't know why.

[demografx]

Update - Endocrinologist visit

Yesterday we did a 3 month review of my progress, with lab results mostly ready from in-POIS testing last week. I was pleasantly surprised when the endo showed much greater interest in POIS this time!

Total testosterone and free testosterone increased significantly since March, which was good news because if free and total T hadn't increased by now, he was ready to switch me to a pump gel, and I was already comfortable with the T-patches.

Free T went from 1.45% to 1.64%. 1.5% is the lower end of the reference range and that satisfied him enough to not recommend switching to gel. Total testosterone went from 255 to 487, the norm being 250 - 1100 (ng/dL).

T4 (thyroid) was normal. All the tests combined gave the endo a feeling that the pituitary was working as it should.

There was a lab mixup, so prolactin was not ordered. I will be re-tested in August. He doesn't seem concerned at all about the very high readings from before (once the followup pituitary/brain scan revealed nothing of concern to him).

We discussed POIS and I said that most times, it feels like a 90% POIS cure, within certain frequency limits. Outside those limits it can drop to 70%. We discussed last week's high-POIS episode and the associated trauma I was experiencing about another situation, and he agreed that the added stress I experienced could have thrown the endocrine system out of balance, leading to high POIS. But since that anomaly, things are now back to "high performance", after 2 more "tests" [].

I suppose I shouldn't have to worry about frequency, but that's not a huge price to pay to have a life that I can reasonably expect to be a mostly POIS-free existence without resorting to celibacy, which I never succeeded at.

He added some more tests this time, including a basic metabolic panel (sodium, potassium, chloride, etc.), and PSA. PSA is necessary with testosterone treatment to see if prostate problems, including cancer can be detected. It was normal. Along with PSA, a digital rectal exam is necessary, but I had already done that with a urologist in January, so I'm "free" for the remainder of the year from that!

Glucose was high, potentially pre-diabetic. So B_Jim was right [], I need to cut back on sweets dramatically.

Hemoglobin A1C was at the high end of the reference range, possibly also relating to pre-diabetes? Creatinine (kidney function) was slightly high, possibly from red meat in his opinion. But I don't eat much red meat, so we'll keep an eye on that.

I wrote him an email after the visit, saying that he basically helped change my life, not just because of the successful diagnosis and treatment, but for validating my POIS condition, which I never before experienced, especially by someone with a very high status in the medical and academic community. Plus his attitude. (Respect, partnership and humor).

[demografx]

I did recently notice that when I keep busy my POIS symtoms seem to dissipate a little. It makes me wonder if some of my POIS symtoms may be mental. I definitely think it's more chemical than anything but it's hard to say.

I think most of us felt that way early in studying our POIS patterns, but eventually came to believe that it's almost entirely "chemical".

Any one else have a thought about that?

[demografx]

demografx,

I will definitely check out those resources when I have some free time. Thanks!

beyondfrustrated, I just sent you Waldinger paper via your regular email, please let me know that you received it.

[demografx]

Pronobis : You should take magnesium at least 3-4 weeks to have an improvement.

Demo : If your glucose is high on an empty stomach,you should try to eat healthy during 1 or 2 months. From my experience eat fruit instead of sugar and more vegetables/less raffeined starch is enough to improve. Caffeine is probably a bad friend too...
But your tests are good anyway : testoterone in progress, T4... That's a good job
I consider Pois at least 90% chemical. Doctors definitly under-estimate physical stressors like sugar abuse and artificial lights and of course under-estimate effect of orgasm on hormonal/neurotransmitters balance.
 

B_Jim, do you think I should try magnesium? I started to cut back sugar. I've cut back caffeine. But I can't quit 100%!!!

I wasted so much time treating POIS as psychological!

[martin88]

Demo,
Very nice for your balanced T and PSA blood test.
For glucose I think your best card along with good diet is exercise. See this page : http://diabetes.webmd.com/guide/exercise-guidelines