[demografx]

Demo,

Very nice for your balanced T and PSA blood test.
For glucose I think your best card along with good diet is exercise. See this page : http://diabetes.webmd.com/guide/exercise-guidelines

Thanks, Martin, my wife and doctors have been pushing that for many, many years. Decades. I'm stubborn, it even took me a couple years here at the forum before I would see an endocrinologist!

But I finally did see the endo, so who knows? I've had sporadic excercise attempts over the years, some lasting for years, even working out strenuously for 18 months in the same gym as Arnold Schwarzenegger and other world class bodybuilders. One problem I have is that when I work out or do cardio, my system reacts as if someone had dumped a gallon of caffeine down my throat. My doctor and others believe me, but it's the very opposite of the good reaction people usually get with endorphins. So my only alternative is to work out without reaching "optimum cardio level"....and that is very boring.

[David_S]

Hi everyone!

I have been checking this thread almost daily for any new information but I finally decided to post.  While I admit I haven't read all 192 pages, I was wondering if I could learn something new by describing my symptoms after orgasm.

- Severe agitation and irritability for almost 24 hours after orgasm
- Light-headedness for the duration of the agitation (possibly less)
- Muscle weakness after the agitation is gone (e.g. Physical Therapy grip strength tests have me at    7-9lbs while in the weakened state, and 80-90 when not, but it's not just my grip, all my muscles are affected)
- The weakness seems to be accompanied by "brain fog"

After 2-3 weeks I will regain the muscle strength every time unless I masturbate within the 2-3 week "recovery time" which from past experience causes the weakness to continue for another few weeks.  Nocturnal emission does not trigger any of the above symptoms.

All of this started when I was around 13; I'm 20 years old now.  Until last year I did not make this correlation.  I'm waiting to see an endo but I've met with one before and nothing unusual was found from the blood tests.  My diet is healthy, I eat organic food, avoid sweets, and drink plenty of water.  I eat frequent small meals to keep my blood sugar stable.

Thank you for your time.

[demografx]

David_S, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




David, many thanks for posting. we look forward to hearing more of your experiences in your next post. It's very interesting that you escape POIS when having an NE!  (Did I read that correctly?) Also interesting that the last endo's bloodtesting revealed normalcy.

I'm very sorry to hear of the extended recovery time but I hope that at least it gets better every day in that 2-3 week period!

Can you say which categories were tested in your last blood tests? Here's what I tested:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg253144#msg253144
In my particular case, free testosterone was low and I was put on testosterone patches. The patches have effected a dramatic cure (sometimes 70%, but mostly 90% cured per episode). You might want to check the previous posts to see what others have tested for. Here's a way to get started:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hormones+tested+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


It's great that you're seeing an endo once again! We have to keep fighting. Try to take your first test while you're in-POIS. Then follow that up with out-of-POIS so you'll have a comparison of symptomatic and nonsymptomatic times.
 

Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your regular email address and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. This can help fight the immediate reaction of some: IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 300,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

[David_S]

Thank you for replying.  Unfortunately I can't remember everything that they tested in the earlier endo visit, I just recall nothing being abnormal.

To clarify, an NE does not stop my POIS.  I saw some earlier posts say they got symptoms after an NE as well as orgasm but mine seems to be orgasm only.  For some reason my muscle weakness etc doesn't gradually improve over time but after the 2-3 weeks all my strength returns in an instant.

[Pronobis]

Pronobis : You should take magnesium at least 3-4 weeks to have an improvement.

Thanx, then I shoud take it regularly, all my life? It's not an irony, but I'd like to know, what will it change?

[martin88]

DOPAMINE RECEPTORS

Several people here have already reported a form of attention deficit.
It would be interesting to test us (maybe costly tests) for this genetic problem linked with dopamine receptors :
It would be nice to find a pois gene!

Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder
Dopamine receptors have been recognized as important components in the etiology of ADHD for many years. Drugs used to treat ADHD, including methylphenidate and amphetamine, have significant effects on dopamine signaling in the brain. Studies of gene association have implicated several genes within dopamine signaling pathways; in particular, the D4.7 variant of D4 has been consistently shown to be more frequent in ADHD patients.[16] ADHD patients with the 4.7 allele also tend to have better cognitive performance and long-term outcomes compared to ADHD patients without the 4.7 allele, suggesting that the allele is associated with a more benign form of ADHD.[16]
The D4.7 allele has suppressed gene expression compared to other variants.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor

From the same link above, in the paragraph "Dopamine regulation" it is said that a sharp decreases in dopamine can upregulate the dopamine receptors, if I understand well   .
So  dopamine just before orgasm can eventually be too high causing our problems after orgasm. This could explain why fenugreek (which can decrease dopamine) can help pois. Sorry if all this has already been mentionned before.

It would be great to have a follow-up with all the medicines to treat pois (fenugreek,5htp,phosphatidylserine,etc), like Demo is reporting with his testosterone therapy, or John with Garlic. So we could see if there's a long term efficiency...

[Counterpoints]

Very possible Martin, although I think it is more than just dopamine.  I have tried methylphenidate.  On the first day, I had increased focus, but the POIS was still obvious in the background. Repeated attempts just made me feel spacey.

For me, and I think this is a really big clue, orgasm is like an "on" and "off" switch for these symptoms.  I suspect this is true for others as well. (It took me a fair amount of experimentation to figure this out).  To answer Demo's question, I'm not sure exactly why.  I think orgasm is activating some neurological or adrenal function, and it can also de-activate this function.

I think "hypersexuality" has been associated with adrenal adenomas, which could be another clue.

[demografx]

DOPAMINE RECEPTORS

Several people here have already reported a form of attention deficit.
It would be interesting to test us (maybe costly tests) for this genetic problem linked with dopamine receptors :
It would be nice to find a pois gene!

Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder
Dopamine receptors have been recognized as important components in the etiology of ADHD for many years. Drugs used to treat ADHD, including methylphenidate and amphetamine, have significant effects on dopamine signaling in the brain. Studies of gene association have implicated several genes within dopamine signaling pathways; in particular, the D4.7 variant of D4 has been consistently shown to be more frequent in ADHD patients.[16] ADHD patients with the 4.7 allele also tend to have better cognitive performance and long-term outcomes compared to ADHD patients without the 4.7 allele, suggesting that the allele is associated with a more benign form of ADHD.[16]
The D4.7 allele has suppressed gene expression compared to other variants.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor

From the same link above, in the paragraph "Dopamine regulation" it is said that a sharp decreases in dopamine can upregulate the dopamine receptors, if I understand well   .
So  dopamine just before orgasm can eventually be too high causing our problems after orgasm. This could explain why fenugreek (which can decrease dopamine) can help pois. Sorry if all this has already been mentionned before.

It would be great to have a follow-up with all the medicines to treat pois (fenugreek,5htp,phosphatidylserine,etc), like Demo is reporting with his testosterone therapy, or John with Garlic. So we could see if there's a long term efficiency...

Martin, I've had great success for three years now with Adderall XR (basically, extended release amphetamine salts) for (1) ADHD, and (2) depression. And (3) it's helped my POIS, too! No adverse longterm effects that I can see. It's been around over 50 years, so it has a lengthy study history. But it does have a potential for abuse in addictive personalities.

[demografx]

Thank you for replying.  Unfortunately I can't remember everything that they tested in the earlier endo visit, I just recall nothing being abnormal.

It still might be useful to ask for a copy of the labwork (it's your right) just to see what you did/didn't test, and compare it to some of our experiences.

For some reason my muscle weakness etc doesn't gradually improve over time but after the 2-3 weeks all my strength returns in an instant.

Sorry to hear that you have to suffer so long with each episode. Hopefully a treatment will be found. At least you have an idea of what the muscle weakness is associated with.

[Counterpoints]

Martin, I've had great success for three years now with Adderall XR (basically, extended release amphetamine salts) for (1) ADHD, and (2) depression. And (3) it's helped my POIS, too! No adverse longterm effects that I can see. It's been around over 50 years, so it has a lengthy study history. But it does have a potential for abuse in addictive personalities.

Adderall was only introduced to the market in 1996.  Maybe you are thinking of a different amphetamine?

How much would you say Adderall decreases your POIS?

[demografx]

Martin, I've had great success for three years now with Adderall XR (basically, extended release amphetamine salts) for (1) ADHD, and (2) depression. And (3) it's helped my POIS, too! No adverse longterm effects that I can see. It's been around over 50 years, so it has a lengthy study history. But it does have a potential for abuse in addictive personalities.

Adderall was only introduced to the market in 1996.  Maybe you are thinking of a different amphetamine?

Adderall is basically just amphetamine.

How much would you say Adderall decreases your POIS?

Very hard to pinpoint. So much has transpired these last 3 years with an interaction of variables, i.e., severe depression, anxiety, ADHD, POIS. I know that as I feel a mental boost out-of-POIS, I feel a twin "brain fog combatter" and exhaustion/fatigue fighter in-POIS.

[demografx]

Sperm regeneration

In my case, I feel that POIS and sperm regeneration are somehow related, and an analogy that keeps coming to mind is that of an automobile and gas.

When the car's gas tank is "full", it runs well and goes far. When the sperm is in full supply, the "human car" is in good shape, too.

If either are depleted, the "cars" simply don't run well, or at all. POIS seems to be very much related to "gas" (sperm) depletion.

I have a comparison to my previous full-blown POIS experiences, without testosterone. In those experiences, I could, again, "feel" it take a long time to regenerate sperm once the supply is exhausted, weeks, sometimes months. With normal levels of testosterone flowing in my body, I can feel it ("filling up") happening in days.

I could be wrong, and I certainly have no empirical evidence to back it up, but it certainly feels that way.

[martin88]

Martin, I've had great success for three years now with Adderall XR (basically, extended release amphetamine salts) for (1) ADHD, and (2) depression. And (3) it's helped my POIS, too! No adverse longterm effects that I can see. It's been around over 50 years, so it has a lengthy study history. But it does have a potential for abuse in addictive personalities.

Interesting. I remember you were helped by coffee too.
 
About the caffeine effect when you exercise I'm wondering if it could be this med Adderal which needs a dosage adjustment. Normally sport should have a calming effect!
But I heard that sport has also a psychostimulant effect like coffee.(noradrenaline ?)

[martin88]

Very possible Martin, although I think it is more than just dopamine.  I have tried methylphenidate.  On the first day, I had increased focus, but the POIS was still obvious in the background. Repeated attempts just made me feel spacey.

For me, and I think this is a really big clue, orgasm is like an "on" and "off" switch for these symptoms.  I suspect this is true for others as well. (It took me a fair amount of experimentation to figure this out).  To answer Demo's question, I'm not sure exactly why.  I think orgasm is activating some neurological or adrenal function, and it can also de-activate this function.

I think "hypersexuality" has been associated with adrenal adenomas, which could be another clue.

Counterpoints,
Pois is complex for us, I'm just trying to find some new pieces (low budget!) of the puzzle. Possibly methylphenydate doesn't play on all dopamine receptors according to the link I posted, or there is something else..

(Other information from the same link:
Dopamine receptors are implicated in modulation of neuroendocrine signaling )

About the on and off switch :
For me the equation more orgasms = more fatigue, muscle weakness, anxiety and nervous weakness is ALWAYS true.
However rarely I could notice a temporary relief of depression after subsequent orgasms. Temporary is important. In fact I think this relief can be caused by increased nervous sensivity (weakness) to the pleasure of the orgasm.

Hypersexuality and a pituitary disorder is perhaps possible too. I was thinking about this when you talked about one NE every 3 days. It seems to me to be a lot (?).

[demografx]

Martin, I've had great success for three years now with Adderall XR (basically, extended release amphetamine salts) for (1) ADHD, and (2) depression. And (3) it's helped my POIS, too! No adverse longterm effects that I can see. It's been around over 50 years, so it has a lengthy study history. But it does have a potential for abuse in addictive personalities.

Interesting. I remember you were helped by coffee too.
 
About the caffeine effect when you exercise I'm wondering if it could be this med Adderal which needs a dosage adjustment. Normally sport should have a calming effect!
But I heard that sport has also a psychostimulant effect like coffee.(noradrenaline ?)

In almost all my workout periods of any length, Adderall was never involved. But I was drinking coffee and sometimes taking ginseng. But even in periods when I was without any stimulant, I always had a hyper reaction to exercise. My wife doesn't believe me. []

[beyondfrustrated]

Hey guys,

 At the risk of sounding like a complete nutjob, I experienced something the other day
that stumped me. I masturbated without looking at porn, something I almost never do, and I happened to notice my POIS symptoms were almost nonexistant. Has anyone else experienced this? I know this doesn't make any logical sense, but it is what it is. I think I'm going to avoid porn for at least the next three sessions(it will be extremely difficult) and see how I feel. Being a believer, I must consider the possibility of spirtual issues as well.
(all of you non-believers can roll your eyes and write me off if you'd like, I don't mind) Believing in Christ is the best thing that has ever happened to me. Ok, I'll stop preaching now. Sorry about that

Does anyone else think that porn is the biggest waste of time and has no positive use? It really sucks to be addicted to something that's such a huge waste of time.
Not to mention, it's pure brain rot. Honestly, it has done nothing but make my life complicated and miserable.

[Counterpoints]

Hey guys,

 At the risk of sounding like a complete nutjob, I experienced something the other day
that stumped me. I masturbated without looking at porn, something I almost never do, and I happened to notice my POIS symptoms were almost nonexistant. Has anyone else experienced this? I know this doesn't make any logical sense, but it is what it is. I think I'm going to avoid porn for at least the next three whack sessions(it will be extremely difficult) and see how I feel. Being a believer, I must consider the possibility of spirtual issues as well.
(all of you non-believers can roll your eyes and write me off if you'd like, I don't mind) Believing in Christ is the best thing that has ever happened to me. Ok, I'll stop preaching now. Sorry about that

Does anyone else think that porn is the biggest waste of time and has no positive use? It really sucks to be addicted to something that's such a huge waste of time.
Not to mention, it's pure brain rot. Honestly, it has done nothing but make my life complicated and miserable.

Again, this could be an "off" switch instance, attributed to something else. 

As far as the religious influence... do what you think is best.  Although I suspect you are more likely to get results taking a scientific approach.  (Also, IMO, there is no sensible reason you, and especially you in particular, would be punished for sexual activity).  Also note, that many could equally well say that becoming an agnostic or an atheist is the best thing that happened to them. (For one, it eliminates, imo, a lot of needless guilt).

But yes, I would avoid porn or sexually stimulating material, if you have POIS.  Generally, reducing sex-cravings, drive, addiction, seems to be helpful in minimizing the amount of time we spend affected by this problem. I notice I seem to be susceptible to porn and sex addiction. 

[demografx]

At the risk of sounding like a complete nutjob...

Relax, anyone exposed to POIS as long as we have, becomes, a complete nutjob. []

[demografx]

Effect of glycemic index on adrenaline level:

Blue= High Glycemic Index
Red=Low glycemic index

B_Jim, I'm not sure what the implication of the graph is. Can you please elaborate?

[demografx]

beyondfrustrated, please let me know if you got my private message. Thanks.