[Limejuice]

I will participate in the study.

[demografx]

I will participate in the study.

Many thanks, LJ!

[demografx]

Does anyone else experience severe jet lag? Excessive hangover from moderate drinking?...

...lasting for days, as POIS does.

I've always wondered if the above out-of-proportion reactions come from a disruptive mechanism similar to the one that creates POIS, but not with exactly the same symptoms. A mechanism whereby the mind and body (hormones? neurotransmitters? etc.) are thrown "off balance" .

[GoingCrazy]

Does anyone else experience severe jet lag? Excessive hangover from moderate drinking?...

...lasting for days, as POIS does.

I've always wondered if the above out-of-proportion reactions come from a disruptive mechanism similar to the one that creates POIS, but not with exactly the same symptoms. A mechanism whereby the mind and body (hormones? neurotransmitters? etc.) are thrown "off balance" .

Well i did just drink last night.  A bit of a hangover today... not too bad though.  I believe it would be worse if you were in POIS and drank than the hangover will probably be twice as bad.  What I thought was interesting though is that when I orgasm, I get a lot of stuff in my eyes the next morning, and this morning (the morning after I drank)  I opened my eyes and could pretty much tell you that it was like looking through a foggy window, I had to rub the stuff out of my eyes and wait about half an hour for it to clear up.  I think we are all out of balance.

[GoingCrazy]

Welcome Chipdouglas.

About fatigue/exhaustion :

It's a recurrent debate we have here. Please keep in mind all Pois sufferers don't have the same symptoms and that's why it's so difficult to find some consensus. There are different "forms" of Pois.
Fatigue is of course a very common symptoms here but in the same time it's not acurate... Is this a physical fatigue (muscular...) ? Mental fatigue (cognition...) ? Both ? Keep in mind this : each case is different.

A very good point that it is crucial to clearly articulate what we mean when we say "fatigue" and "exhaustion". 

Good point.  "anxiety" might be another symptom that is difficult to clearly articulate.  I think the general impression people have is that "anxiety" is something consciously generated, or can be controlled through medication.  However, the anxiety I experience with POIS isn't anything like "normal" anxiety that I might get over an exam, etc.  It's long lasting, reasonably constant in duration, and largely unresponsive to medication or any conscious effort to control it.  One of the key differences is that "normal" anxiety is a result of thinking about something in particular, whereas this is present regardless of that.  I thought this might be similar to the "distress" experienced by people with sugar handling problems (or very high cortisol levels).  There's also a definite social anxiety that comes with (my) POIS, which isn't normally present when I am symptom free.  This is certainly just part of the larger "anxiety" issue, and may give some clues about its origin.  I think it's associated with POIS "bringing my defenses down".  I discussed the anxiety symptom with a neuroscientist who has done research on orgasm using functional imaging, and he suggested that the amygdala is de-activated, and my anxiety was generated by a "lack of alertness".  This is the opposite of what one might expect -- that the amygdala is over-activated.

Yes, I thought of that before too... I don't even think its anxiety.  I think it's somewhat similar but maybe its a signal your brain receives when it's being attacked?  It feels like mental torture for me and  I don't think people with normal anxiety issues feel like they're being attacked.

[CertainlyPOIS]

Am down for study, wherelse are they going to get people to participate.
On anxiety, I only have anxiety with social issures but is only because i feel like my IQ drops a nice degree during pois and also talking seems to be the glue during all types of social forms and during pois that aint happening.

[demografx]

Well i did just drink last night.  A bit of a hangover today... not too bad though. 

Thanks, GC, what I was looking for was  a   _disproportionate_  hangover. Did you feel the hangover was excessive considering the amount you drank? How much did you drink? Will the hangover last for days?

I'm looking for _similarities_ between POIS and other ways our systems can go haywire, not "drinking in or out of POIS".

Thanks.

[demografx]

Thanks, CC!

[Langjahr]

Does anyone else experience severe jet lag? Excessive hangover from moderate drinking?...

...lasting for days, as POIS does.

I've always wondered if the above out-of-proportion reactions come from a disruptive mechanism similar to the one that creates POIS, but not with exactly the same symptoms. A mechanism whereby the mind and body (hormones? neurotransmitters? etc.) are thrown "off balance" .

I do!. I used to be able to enjoy a few beers with the guys but since my POIS syptoms materialized 20 years ago I got to the point where if I drink 1 beer I get a hang over. In fact, I've likened my POIS symptoms to a hang over in many discussions.

[demografx]

Does anyone else experience severe jet lag? Excessive hangover from moderate drinking?...

...lasting for days, as POIS does.

I've always wondered if the above out-of-proportion reactions come from a disruptive mechanism similar to the one that creates POIS, but not with exactly the same symptoms. A mechanism whereby the mind and body (hormones? neurotransmitters? etc.) are thrown "off balance" .

I do!. I used to be able to enjoy a few beers with the guys but since my POIS syptoms materialized 20 years ago I got to the point where if I drink 1 beer I get a hang over. In fact, I've likened my POIS symptoms to a hang over in many discussions.

Fascinating, Langjahr, thank you very much for that!

Always nice to know we're not the only ones on the planet with strange symptoms.

[NakedDynamo]

Hi Guys..Haven't had too much time of late to write too much...

Demografx...Happy to participate in any study to assist. I really hope we get closer to understanding this thing.

Couple of Quick points to add to the discussion above:

1. I have never been able to have much more than one beer. It just affects me like I have had the equivalent of someone elses 10 beers. As a result, I have always steered away from drinking. I always feel like sleeping after a beer....actually now that I think about it (and prompted by the discussion)....It's kind of like the severe sleepiness I get when in POIS period.

2. I get very severe headaches if I read in a moving car...I always thought that was normal though...Not sure if thats related.

Cheers.

ND.

[chipdouglas]

Hi again,

It's been a few days now and I have only had minimal time to read from this board..but I did despite time constraints.

One other very helpful place is this one : newbielink:http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php [nonactive]

The owner and moderator of this discussion board is Dr. Romeo B. Mariano who has his medical practice in Monterey CA. He's a psychiatrist with a specialty in behavioral endocrinology.

Have a look at the postings on his board, and you'll very likely find some help there too.

Again, the reason I'm posting this is to help out others. I for one have been searching for years now, and well, I don't mind sharing what it is I've found if that can cause some people to suffer less than I have.

[daisi_sufferer]

Hi everyone,

Though I have more or less same emotions after having found this forum, I would not waste time and get to the business right way by summarising my life. It is to add to this pool of knowledge/information.

Age 1-13
One of the brightest kid around
Started masterbation with the frequency few times a week
No major symptoms of POIS

Age 14-15
Mild symptoms of POIS started to appear
Symptoms were mainly general weakness, very tired legs, laziness

Age 16-20
Started having too frequent wed dreams, 4-6 times a week. Sometime 2-3 times in a single night. POIS symptoms got very severe. Saw homeopath and started taking Acid Phos which only helped to reduce frequency of wet dreams but had no effect on POIS symptoms. Kept on taking Acid Phos on on-off basis. Stopped masterbation. Almost

Age 21-26
Stopped taking Homeopathic medicine and started to focus on general health, sports, food and tried to convince myself that this is only in my head as advised by GP. But POIS symptoms got worst. Developed very severe Premature Ejaculation. Frequency of wet dreams was slightly reduced. Started being depressed

Age 26-29
Saw urologist and was prescribed Seroxat, a SSRI, which helped only in reducing frequency of wet dreams. Kept on taking it for quite sometime but no effect on POIS symptoms and depression. Got married but PE was too severe to have normal sex


Age 30-34 (i.e. today)
Tried few Homeopathic docs and many medicines but no improvement in POIS symptoms and PE. For last few months I have tried quite few herbs including Maca, Ginseng, Gingko Biloba, Ashwagandha, Tribulus, Fish Oil, Tongkat Ali. These herbs have helped in improving general health and slightly increased libido but no improvements in POIS symptoms and PE

Symptoms
Following conditions/symptoms are permanent
General muscle weekness and tiredness, very very severe PE, almost no sex drive, very bad short term and long term memory, very irritable and short tempered personality
Following symptoms are after ejaculation
Severe fatigue, foggy brain, blurred eye vision, don't like to meet anyone, don't like to do anything. But, unlike many persons here, my symptoms seem to get recover relatively quicker. 

[John21 (OP)]

Daisi_Sufferer,

Thanks for posting your info. My symptoms were typically a week of mental distortion/distress, which then subsided and sometimes left me burnt out for another duration. How quickly do you recover from an event?

I have PE also. I'm not sure if it is related to POIS, but it might be a direct result of masturbation.

[demografx]

Daisi_Sufferer, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Daisi_Sufferer, thank you very much for your very interesting, creative and unusual chronological reporting of your history!

Here are some POIS forum resources which may be helpful to you:

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Forum Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

And filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here. This will also enable us to work more easily with outside researchers by having more organized data available about us:
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

POIS Research Study

We have a copy of the first and only study on POIS by Dr. Marcel Waldinger,MD and Dr. David Schweitzer, MD.

If you want a copy (PDF), send me a Private Message with your regular email address and I'll send you back the PDF.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".


New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition - that POIS has scientific underpinnings and that POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapist community. This can help fight the immediate reaction of some: IT'S NOT "ALL IN OUR HEADS"!

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum for over 2 years, which has attracted over 100 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus more than 300,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

[demografx]

The owner and moderator of this discussion board is Dr. Romeo B. Mariano who has his medical practice in Monterey CA. He's a psychiatrist with a specialty in behavioral endocrinology.

Some bodybuilders swear by him. To a number of people, he seems very controversial. I'll just give you a couple examples, by no means comprehensive in any way in describing his practice.

From internet postings and at least with one individual at this forum, he has reportedly swayed people with low testosterone away from TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) - the standard, extensively tested medical treatment worldwide for low testosterone - and instead recommended a multitude of supplements.

I am on TRT and it has changed my life. POIS episodes are now 75% to 90% healed, after searching for every possible cure under the sun, to no avail, for over 30 years. (This POIS treatment works for me, and is not recommended as a "cure" for POIS. Everyone is different and should be tested and treated in accordance with their own unique symptoms.)

He reportedly believes in neurotransmitter testing. My university endocrinologist, a respected academic and endocrinology-based practitioner for 30 years, says that neurotransmitter testing is a great idea, but it's highly unreliable.

Again, some bodybuilders think he has "the answers" to endocrine-related problems. After the first visit, everything is conducted by telephone, according to posted reports.

I would encourage extremely careful investigation into specific treatments recommended.

[demografx]

Daisi_Sufferer, this post below might help you find answers easier by tailoring a Google search to this POIS forum:

SEARCH POIS FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: nearly 2 years' worth of posts from 130+ Forum members.

In the Google search box, type
whatever you're interested in finding[space]site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx site:http://www.thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within POIS Forum.

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result.

[CertainlyPOIS]

For pois publicity stories:  Am moving out of my parents by the end of today because of pois(there is a story, not because i exactly have pois but because of the measures i took to reduce nocturnal emission). I guess the closet is to small to contain my parents and I so I had to move out.

[John21 (OP)]

Demo,
You mentioned you have had symptoms of depression. I don't consider myself depressed but for the last few days I have been ingesting 1 Tbsp flax oil daily, and I have noticed an antidepressant effect from it.  It may be an effect that will wear off quickly, we'll see. This idea probably isn't new to you, I'm sure you have heard that Omega 3s, fish oil etc. can help with depression, but for me flax oil is particularly powerful. It could be that I am so sensitive to substances that I have such a noticeable reaction, or maybe it has something to do with my low fat diet. Anyway, you may wish to consider this arrow for your quiver.

[daisi_sufferer]

Thanks, John21 & demografx for such warm welcome and help. If ejaculation is after more than 7-10 days than I recover in 2-3 days. But whatever the case is, my permanent symptoms stay put.

Can you guys help suggest some solution for my PE problem? I want to try out some of the solutions mentioned for POIS on this forum in following order. Can you kindly confirm my understanding?

(1) fenugreek
(2) Relora (which brand?)