[John21 (OP)]

Daisi_sufferer,

Can you guys help suggest some solution for my PE problem? I want to try out some of the solutions mentioned for POIS on this forum in following order. Can you kindly confirm my understanding?

(1) fenugreek
(2) Relora (which brand?)

I do not believe that either of these will make any difference to your PE whatsoever. The only thing I know of that works somewhat is SSRIs which I would not take unless absolutely necessary. That is, I wouldn't want to take them for PE alone, there would have to be a more substantial reason such as severe depression.

[daisi_sufferer]

Daisi_sufferer,

Can you guys help suggest some solution for my PE problem? I want to try out some of the solutions mentioned for POIS on this forum in following order. Can you kindly confirm my understanding?

(1) fenugreek
(2) Relora (which brand?)

I do not believe that either of these will make any difference to your PE whatsoever. The only thing I know of that works somewhat is SSRIs which I would not take unless absolutely necessary. That is, I wouldn't want to take them for PE alone, there would have to be a more substantial reason such as severe depression.

Little correction, I want to try these two things for POIS, not for PE.

[demografx]

HUGE correction []

Please see my post to you on "POIS forum google search" and look for Relora and fenugreek. If my instructions aren't clear just let me know and I'll be happy to do it for you.

[demografx]

Demo,
You mentioned you have had symptoms of depression. I don't consider myself depressed but for the last few days I have been ingesting 1 Tbsp flax oil daily, and I have noticed an antidepressant effect from it.  It may be an effect that will wear off quickly, we'll see. This idea probably isn't new to you, I'm sure you have heard that Omega 3s, fish oil etc. can help with depression, but for me flax oil is particularly powerful. It could be that I am so sensitive to substances that I have such a noticeable reaction, or maybe it has something to do with my low fat diet. Anyway, you may wish to consider this arrow for your quiver.

John, excellent ideas for depression! Many thanks, I don't believe my antidepressant works much. But, in my case, the Rx stimulants do. I've tried just about every anti-d on the market. 20 years ago I did have a fantastic, life-changing positive effect from Prozac, and thankfully it's permanent. Prior to that, I would sink to some nightmarish, fierce lows which have never recurred.

Thanks again for the great ideas.

[demografx]

About fatigue/exhaustion :

It's a recurrent debate we have here. Please keep in mind all Pois sufferers don't have the same symptoms and that's why it's so difficult to find some consensus. There are different "forms" of Pois.
Fatigue is of course a very common symptoms here but in the same time it's not acurate... Is this a physical fatigue (muscular...) ? Mental fatigue (cognition...) ? Both ? Keep in mind this : each case is different.

B_Jim, thank you very much for your analysis of "fatigue". I really do understand the fine distinctions. My interest is not in diagnostic precision (not just yet), or even "symptom consensus". Rather I am looking for the word(s) that will most efficiently attract the largest sufferer population to the forum and/or the best possible treatment for POIS. The widest net possible. And it appears that, in POIS sufferer language, words like "fatigue, tired, exhausted" are spoken/written by a very large sub-group (perhaps the single largest one, yet by no means the only one).

So my thinking at this stage is promotional. For example, in wikipedia and Google, I believe that a very large proportion of sufferers will look for something along the lines of "fatigue after orgasm". I'm not trying to oversimplify the symptoms, I'm simply trying to maximize our outreach efforts.

We should give the same consideration to cognitive symptoms. Is "word finding difficulty" something the average POIS-cognitive-sufferer would type into Google or wikipedia? "Anxiety" is imprecise, we know, but if "days of anxiety after intercourse" is how a large chunk of sufferers think/write, we should address that.

Perhaps I haven't been clear enough in making a distinction between talking to physicians vs. talking to sufferers. 

I realize the letter to AACE might be a contradiction, but at this stage of even talking to physicians, it seems  right.

Counterpoints, John, B_Jim, anyone else, you've had a lot to say on this, any thoughts on the "promotional" angle I've described?

[Pronobis]

I begin to believe that Premature Ejaculation is the part of POIS. Does every POIS sufferer have the PE? Me, personally, I have very severe PE.

By the way, today I was finally in rendez vous with endoc. She was very surprised, sent me to do same blood test that Demografx advised me and then told me that she would presribe me some anti-depressor with a little dose

[demografx]

Pronobis, there are PE sufferers here, but I think the majority do not have it. B_Jim or Counterpoints may know more.

Pronobis, congratulations on your progress!!

[Guthrie]

I begin to believe that Premature Ejaculation is the part of POIS. Does every POIS sufferer have the PE? Me, personally, I have very severe PE.

I also have significant PE.  I've wondered whether it's connected to POIS, but I guess not everyone here suffers from it, so it remains unclear.

[Guthrie]

Does anyone else experience severe jet lag? Excessive hangover from moderate drinking?...

...lasting for days, as POIS does.

I've always wondered if the above out-of-proportion reactions come from a disruptive mechanism similar to the one that creates POIS, but not with exactly the same symptoms. A mechanism whereby the mind and body (hormones? neurotransmitters? etc.) are thrown "off balance" .

I also am strongly affected by just a little bit of alcohol.  I wonder if there are other documented hormonal/endocrine issues that have "low alcohol tolerance" as a symptom...

[Guthrie]

POIS RESEARCH STUDY

I'd like a show of hands, please.

Sure, I'd participate in a study.

[Pantaloon]

Some comments/responses on recent questions/discussions

Demo - I'd happily take part in any trial you can sort out.

Concerning the issue of alcohol and POIS, I definitely get it. Wine worst, followed by Beer, spirits sometimes OK. Generally I avoid it all though.

With Regard to PE, I think it's something that happens to most guys who don't have sex all that often - I guess too much enthusiasm/excitement is not surprising when it's been a while. I imagine that everybody with POIS is having sex far less than there libido would naturally lead them to. I know I am :-(

Regards

Pantaloon

[demografx]

I also am strongly affected by just a little bit of alcohol.  I wonder if there are other documented hormonal/endocrine issues that have "low alcohol tolerance" as a symptom...

Guthrie, some interesting results came up when I Googled "low alcohol tolerance hormones":
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=low+alcohol+tolerance+hormones&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I continue to wonder if this isn't somehow related to POIS...

[demografx]

Sure, I'd participate in a study.

Demo - I'd happily take part in any trial you can sort out.

Guthrie, Pantaloon, thanks!

[demografx]

I begin to believe that Premature Ejaculation is the part of POIS. Does every POIS sufferer have the PE? Me, personally, I have very severe PE.

I also have significant PE.  I've wondered whether it's connected to POIS, but I guess not everyone here suffers from it, so it remains unclear.

I've seen PE mentioned enough in POIS cases to make me think it's worth investigating.

[demografx]

Urinary Frequency
and
Nocturia (2+ bathroom visits per night)

I have both and for a very long time wondered about their connection to POIS. I was so certain that several urologists I consulted would surely understand the connection. Or at least understand POIS. Rude awakening. It was a huge disappointment each time. And it took me years just to get over the embarrassment of talking to them about POIS!

Anyone else care to share their high frequency? (That just sounded like a ham radio operator call to action [])

[demografx]

I guess too much enthusiasm/excitement is not surprising when it's been a while. I imagine that everybody with POIS is having sex far less than there libido would naturally lead them to. I know I am :-(

Regards

Pantaloon

Interesting observation, Pantaloon.

[CertainlyPOIS]

On alcohol i think it is possible alcohol is the final stress on our sensitive endocrine system. I notice problem during college when my drinking skyrocketted. I also remeber micheal mentioning alchol in relation to his problem. But there is always the argument that why arent others complaining about this.

[CertainlyPOIS]

On describing pois to general public and doctor.
Symptoms of pois are similar to effects of not sleeping for couple of days.  Imagine those effects affecting you for a period of 3-7 days and also multiply those effects by 10.

[pyropeach]

I just finished a rough draft of the compendium.  But some feedback would be great as I'm sure there's much more that can be added and there are many details that need to be worked out.  If anyone would like to read it over and add comments and/or edit it (and don't be afraid to tear it to pieces, I won't take it personally), I would gladly send it in docx or doc format.  Then people could send it back and I'll try to reconcile everyone's suggestions and comments.  Also, it would make things waaaay easier if everyone uses the review/track changes function in Word, so please use that if you want to edit it.

[demografx]

On alcohol i think it is possible alcohol is the final stress on our sensitive endocrine system. I notice problem during college when my drinking skyrocketed. I also remeber micheal mentioning alchol in relation to his problem. But there is always the argument that why arent others complaining about this.

Interesting point, CC. NakedDynamo believes that POIS isn't rare, that more people are out there.

I would add that many are simply afraid to speak up, or have experienced the same repeated rejection as we all have by the medical community, or don't know they have it (many of us didn't connect sex-to-symptoms for a long time until we put 2 + 2 together), and some may assume that everyone has POIS.

The other possibility is that excessive intake over a long period (such as Michael, me in the past, and I'm sure others here)can be somehow implicated in POIS, but in combination with other factors. To vastly oversimplify, if Alcohol + Factor B + Factor C = POIS and if the majority of drinkers don't have B + C, then we're back to a minority of POIS-afflicted in the population.

Maybe B_Jim and Pyropeach can add this (history of excessive alcohol/drug intake) to their databases.