[pyropeach]

By the way Demo, how is Pyropeach? Did he recover okay? That sounded like a whomp of a fever.

I finally recovered from the whole ordeal, if you can believe it, the hospital ran out of beds, and made me carry a spare bed to the ninth floor while i had a fever of 110!!!! But I'm doing much better now   And it looks like my Internet connection has recovered too!

[pyropeach]

More from Pyro

"Speaking of immune-response, this article I found might be worth everyone’s time looking at."
 
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=how-the-immune-systems-t-cells-seem-2010-05-03
 
Pyro

Good place to start! [)

I'm in day 3 now and have body aches and pains all over... This too could be explained by the lack of IL-4 production.

Anyways. Lets see where the investigation leads. There are just so many things involved!!
 

Daveman, this might also interest to you even though the results don't really help our cause, if you end up getting a copy of this, let me know will ya?

http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=pdf&file=NIM2004011005293

[demografx]

Alzheimer's + immune system + POIS link?

Some controversial (for legality and safety reasons) treatments have been discussed here lately, one for Alzheimer's. IF there is a link -  we're far from having any true evidence - between POIS-and-Alzheimer's-cognitive decline treatment, today's news brings some new developments.

Interestingly, the article below discusses drugs for immune system disorders that are showing effectiveness in clinical trials on cognitive decline in Alzheimer's patients.

One drug "...helps the body's immune system clear the brain of amyloid, a sticky, plaquelike substance thought to be key in the development and progression of Alzheimer's".

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-fi-alzheimers-20100504,0,883088.story

[demografx]

The main problem of his method is to use a lot of supplements and meds without to know which is really usefull.
I have tested a lot of supplements and a lot are useless.

Bowdon, I agree with B_Jim, the posts you refer to seem to indicate that the "treatment" was to ingest the contents of an entire pharmacy and supplement store combined!

Neurotransmitter testing I personally don't believe is accurate. The same for urine testing of testosterone and other hormones. Both were part of this "testing".

You can find lists of tests that we have recommended here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=hormone+test+POIS+site:http://thenakedscientists.com&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7DAUS_en&start=10&sa=N

[demografx]

"Exploring The Mind-Body Orgasm"

2007 Wired Magazine interview with the authors of the book, "The Science Of Orgasm"
http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2007/01/72325

[John21 (OP)]

By the way Demo, how is Pyropeach? Did he recover okay? That sounded like a whomp of a fever.

I finally recovered from the whole ordeal, if you can believe it, the hospital ran out of beds, and made me carry a spare bed to the ninth floor while i had a fever of 110!!!! But I'm doing much better now   And it looks like my Internet connection has recovered too!

I'm glad to hear you are better, go easy on those Chinese chickens. )

[daveman]

Hi Pyro, welcome back!
Damn, I didn't remember Waldinger wrote this about histamines

About Dexter's study,

We know there is an extraordinary transfer of hormones from woman body to man body. During pregnancy, progesterone levels are suffisant to cancel his Pois's symptoms.

But I wonder if the same phenomenon is present during non-pregnancy times, explaining why some Pois sufferers have less symptoms during sexual intercourses compared to masturbation. Like a partial cure.

Sounds interesting, if I understand! But could you explain a little more? How/where does the hormone transfer take place. I can see the male transfering hormones to the female, but how do they transfer to the male.

Through the skin? And this is shown in Dexter's study?

As a note aside, myself, I haven't masturbateed since I have recognized POIS, so I personally haven't experienced this effect, and not prepared to try!

But it would be great if we were on to someting!!

[daveman]

The study only showed there is a transfer. But the pathway is unknown. As you said the most easy way to explain the transfer is through the skin, but it's not clear. And it's not really the most important thing, for us.

Yes, OK, although knowing could help to know perhaps how much transfers. As has been mentioned here, low doses of progesterone too early before the orgasm seem to have less (to no) effect than larger doses earlier.

If you ask me, the mechanism sounds feasible and interesting.... but we've been let down before!
And perhaps, for exactly the reasons above mentioned, the effect of sex with an actual partner is partial and not more complete.

Strangly I had been toying with an idea that I see could be much more related to this than I thought! I noticed that my symptoms are much lighter when my wife is ovulating. Progsterone, but I didn't see how it got over to me! I still practice the "forced ejection", and had been a little let down that the two previous POIS sessions where heavier (2 in 15). That's where I began to wonder about inter-relation with my wife's cycles. In the last two she wasn't ovulating.

In conjunction with that, I noticed that although I was forcing, I felt as though the normal/correct flow of semen was not right. Even though I was forcing, it felt as though it was backing up. I related this more to the pheromones. In all of the cases where I have had very light POIS, the "O" came from deep inside and was complete!!

NOTE: More than forcing, I should say "working with the flow" rather than just letting it happen.

[daveman]

Daveman, this might also interest to you even though the results don't really help our cause, if you end up getting a copy of this, let me know will ya?

http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=pdf&file=NIM2004011005293

Thx.. I put it in "My Favorites" to perhaps go back and get it when I'm in a better position to understand it. I'm going to start from your previous reference first.  Perhaps more directly relevant.

[daveman]

More from Pyro

"Speaking of immune-response, this article I found might be worth everyone’s time looking at."
 
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=how-the-immune-systems-t-cells-seem-2010-05-03
 
Pyro

Another link, further substantiating the anti-inflamatory effects of this cytokine interleukin-4 (IL-4) by possibly the same and or additional means.

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/abstract/fj.10-155317v1

Such (IL-4) is normally produced by certain types of T-Cells (white blood cells) as part of a group where swelling would normally be induced as part of an auto-immune reaction and which could be activiated by a number of factors, from simple exersize to attacks by species of parasitic worms and/or protozoan parasites (sperm?). This latter factor comes from the IL-4 conversion of B-Cells to immunoglobulin-E (IgE) which is a defender of that type of invasion.

The Scientific American article further indicates that the IL-4 producing T-Cells have been shown to congregate in the membranes that surround the central nervous system, and that deficiencies in particular, of the IL-4 producing cells, cause some of the mental AND physical symptoms that we see in POIS. Well no one's asked the mice, but it can be assumed  [].

The only relation that I can see right now is that if a heavy attack is seen requiring rapid convertion of B cells to IgE, perhaps myeloid blocking (part of the anti-inflamatory process) is debilitated.

But hey, I'm just starting my investigations, and it's really heavy stuff! The immune system is quite a cool system. It surprises me that more things don't go wrong with it!!

[Guthrie]

The study only showed there is a transfer. But the pathway is unknown. As you said the most easy way to explain the transfer is through the skin, but it's not clear. And it's not really the most important thing, for us.

Yes, OK, although knowing could help to know perhaps how much transfers. As has been mentioned here, low doses of progesterone too early before the orgasm seem to have less (to no) effect than larger doses earlier.

If you ask me, the mechanism sounds feasible and interesting.... but we've been let down before!
And perhaps, for exactly the reasons above mentioned, the effect of sex with an actual partner is partial and not more complete.

Strangly I had been toying with an idea that I see could be much more related to this than I thought! I noticed that my symptoms are much lighter when my wife is ovulating. Progsterone, but I didn't see how it got over to me! I still practice the "forced ejection", and had been a little let down that the two previous POIS sessions where heavier (2 in 15). That's where I began to wonder about inter-relation with my wife's cycles. In the last two she wasn't ovulating.

That connection with your wife's ovulation is very interesting!

Perhaps we might hypothesize that in the case of both ovulation and preganancy, there might not be a direct or tactile-physical transfer of progesterone itself.  Rather, there could be some sort of pheromone-type factor (associated specifically with pregnancy or ovulation) involved that has an affect on the male's hormonal levels. 

This could be similar to the popular hypothesis about the idea (not accepted by all) that when a group of women live together for an extended amount of time, their menstrual cycles tend to come into synchronization with one another.  In this case, too, there need be no 'physical/touched' transfer of hormones, but rather olfactory reception.
(See here, for instance:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=do-women-who-live-together-menstruate-together )

There is also a notion that a male's hormone levels can be affected by his female partner's pregnancy--it is known as Couvade Syndrome.
(See here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-do-some-men-experienc )

This idea could also explain the counterintuitive notion of the woman affecting the man: it would seem to make more sense to think of the  man 'transferring' hormones to the woman via ejaculation of semen.  However, if it is actually matter of olfactory reception, rather than a physical substance transfer, then it could equally be the woman who does the 'transferring'.

So, it could be that Dexter's patient was affected by some form of pheromonal factor from his pregnant wife (not necessarily a transfer of progesterone itself), which affected his hormonal pathways in a way that alleviated his POIS--and then later, his taking the progesterone pill recreated a similar affect.

[Guthrie]

Here is an interesting study on hormonal changes experienced by men during their partners' pregnancy:
http://www.ahealthymind.org/ans/library/Storey%20fathers.pdf

and this blog post has links to a number of articles:
http://kmberry.blogspot.com/2010/03/daddy-also-gets-little-bit-pregnant.html

[poised]

Could anybody provide us with information on the compounds of prostate fluid? I think that in some cases the cause of POIS is recovering of prostate fluid after ejaculation that depletes some vital substance and leads to POIS.

[El Stonio]

Housekeeping: how does one go to a certain page on this forum?  Thank you.

[daveman]

Housekeeping: how does one go to a certain page on this forum?  Thank you.

One way I found, don't know if it's the most correct, but you can enter the URL directly:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.8025, where the number following the last period is the topic number to appear at the top of the page. There are approximately 25 topics per page. So if you want page 200 for instance, change the 8025 to 25 * 200 = 5000, or http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.5000 . It actually takes you to page 201 in this case.... but now you're close.

[daveman]

Welcome Poised and El Stonio!

[daveman]

The link to an ad that appeared at the bottom of the page recently about anti-body chain switching... don't know if it's still there and I don't know exactly how useful it could be but WOW anyways!

http://www.bioatla.com/evolution.html?gclid=CLn5rLyOz6ECFYke7god5XmRIw

[daveman]

That connection with your wife's ovulation is very interesting!

My wife tricked me with the old "solo la puntita" trick yesterday in the morning... So I had my day 0 during the day! I have avoided this because I prefer to sleep off day 0, doing it at night.

But, her trick [] indicates ovulation and after two complicated sessions it seems that this one is turning out to be a weak session. I'm day 1 now and feeling pretty good. Also the orgasm was fluid full and complete. I felt as though there was no backing up.

[Limejuice]

Just an update, I'm continuing to have sucess with progesterone. I've experiemented and have found a correlation where the more progesterone I take the better I feel after O. I've never like giving figures like a percentage cured, but to scale the results 15mg equals about a 90% cure. I need to injest at least 1.5 hours before activity and no longer than 12 hours before, based on limited testing.

[RhythmSpring]

^ Great news! One thing. Can you rephrase this?

I need to injest at least 1.5 hours before activity and no longer than 12 hours before, based on limited testing.