[Dave23]

and alcohol lowers it ?

Yep and much worse :

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-4/282-287.htm [nofollow]

So a quick summary from the scientific studies :



1. Alcohol blocks the production of growth hormone and blocks the liver's production of IGF-1 in response to growth hormone.

2. Alcohol is a simple sugar. The brain senses this and thinks it has enough adrenal cortisol production, then reduces arenal function for hours. Like eating a sugary candy or food or fruit juice, one can worsen adrenal function for hours by drinking alcohol. This causes fatigue that lasts long after the drink of alcohol.

3. Alcohol withdrawal can occur from non-abusive doses of alcohol. This can interrupt melatonin production and sleep.

4. Alcohol can suppress testosterone production or even cause hypogonadism by lowering LH+FSH signals although it may appear high at first by the signals trying to overcompensate for the new lower testosterone levels.

5. Alcohol is toxic to practically every cell/membrane in the body and can cause cell death.

6. Chronic alcohol abuse causes sexual dysfunction and impaired sperm production.

7.Lowered testosterone leads to higher E2 too Test ratio or increase in E2.

[wooder]

oh well, all those years of on off binge drinking had an effect

god, I feel happier by the minute!

[Animus]

It has been about a year and a half since my surgeries to recover from POIS, and I'm glad to report that I am currently 95% cured and have had very minimal recurrence of POIS since my surgeries. POIS has receded from my day to day health concerns, but I am still very committed to understanding and legitimizing the illness.
My life and health have improved dramatically in the last year+1/2. I have an active sex life again without regrets. My life and health have changed dramatically since having the surgeries. I have the personal data and records to prove it. Whether or not my particular approach was legitimate, is open to debate. A lot of us have tried experiments on ourselves and have become our own doctors and record keepers because of the POIS problem. My theory is very closely related to what is currently being discussed on the forum, with the elimination of the production of semen.

[Dave23]

However its common to read after an orgasm one doesnt feel the urge
to have another for days or weeks with Pois sufferers.

This is not my experience nor do I recall it being the case for others on this forum.

For some or many like yourself John it may not be prolactin, testosterone or even hormone related.Although one would not truly know without proper bloodwork too confirm in and out of POIS.

I know that from my own past experience with POIS, after an orgasm at its worst, POIS symptoms lasted up too 2 weeks and during this pois period another orgasm was last thing on my mind as it makes sense, why create even more POIS symptoms when one is still in the POIS period? 2 weeks was long enough.

Symptoms included Heavy brain fog, flu/fever like symptoms, complete exhaustion,discconected/lack of cognitive function,aching all over from muscles, bones, joints etc, eye floaters,headache/migraines,hypertension, anxiety, inflammed/burning eyes,face,body and some more.

[demografx]

(to people who have tried T)

Do you think Testosterone patches can be used as emergency treatment, as in, put on ONLY after orgasm to stop POIS? (and then taken off/stop use when recovered).

Or do they take too long 'build up' testosterone and need to be left on at all times?

The reason is out-of-pois im not sure I need the patches
(hopefully getting the out-of-pois results tommorrow)

Not sure, I think it took a month to build up in my system.

But when I ramp up T on Day Zero it does seem to have a short-term effect.

Definitively, I would ask a physician, preferably an endocrinologist.

[Dave23]

Ive found through testing and symptoms FSH and LH had no relations to POIS symptoms but maintaining a high total and free or bio testosterone levels made some difference between having or not having POIS symptoms along with keeping estradiol and other hormones in check.

Couldn't this indicate that it's rather the sperm which creates the POIS symptoms than the FH/FSH?

With testoserone high, sperm production is low. And if FH/FSH don't seem to effect symptoms.....

Hey Daveman, nice name btw

Maybe as on TRT sperm count is dead. Im not sure as how does
one measure this?

We know that FSH go hand in hand with sperm. Generally if FSH is high
sperm count will be higher than vice versa.

I know from my own & Demo's experience with TRT and lowering prolactin
helped cure POIS for good. I can go off TRT and do a natural restart but when I start
pushing things,overindulging in lifes pleasures or slacking off in diet thats when it eventually comes back.

Not sure if POIS was still going to come back even without overindulging but during
this period where FSH was higher along with much higher sperm count, I was POIS free.

Only way to know would be for others to go through hormone testing in and out of
POIS, testing all hormones that effects testosterone like Estradiol, SHBG, Prolactin, LH+FSH etc


If one has high testosterone naturally then their sperm/semen production
would be very high and not low due to high FSH/LH testes receptor sensitivity.
Much higher than the average person and they would have
an insanely high sex drive. Although another way too look at it
is, you are right that, if one is looking at pov that one has high testosterone
through TRT then yep sperm would be dead with low/non existant LH+FSH levels.

[Dave23]

It has been about a year and a half since my surgeries to recover from POIS, and I'm glad to report that I am currently 95% cured and have had very minimal recurrence of POIS since my surgeries. POIS has receded from my day to day health concerns, but I am still very committed to understanding and legitimizing the illness.
My life and health have improved dramatically in the last year+1/2. I have an active sex life again without regrets. My life and health have changed dramatically since having the surgeries. I have the personal data and records to prove it. Whether or not my particular approach was legitimate, is open to debate. A lot of us have tried experiments on ourselves and have become our own doctors and record keepers because of the POIS problem. My theory is very closely related to what is currently being discussed on the forum, with the elimination of the production of semen.

Congrats on your success Animus!

Another one to the list .. its building, slowly but surely!

So another POIS free sufferer has reported eliminating sperm has cured their POIS. Maybe Daveman was right, maybe it is the TRT that makes mine and Demos sperm count non existant that cures the POIS!

[Dave23]

am puzzled, at what the poster a few posts above said

excessive training (exercise wise), partying(alcohol I presume he means) and overindulgence in sex, can all lower testerone and asisst with POIS symptons

but how does having fun, lower testerone levels

I am lost [] []

hehe guess i was having too much fun ;/

Thats when POIS hit me again after months of overpartying and boozing up late with friends, with little rest, going out chasing birds,having too much sex, intense training with below par diet and bad sleeping patern.

After that just went straight back on TRT protocol and POIS gradually dissapeared so maybe sperm has something to do with being POIS free as thats myself, Demo and Animus who have no Sperm count either being on TRT or surgery that are POIS free ... coincidence or not ....

[Dave23]

Which hormones did you ask for, or which ones is he going to test?

Hi Daveman
I gave him a list I made from the forum

Total+Free/Bio Testosterone; LH+FSH  (Follicle Stimulating Hormone) (Luteinizing Hormone)
Estradiol (E2); SHBG SEX HORMONE GLOBULIN BINDING; Prolactin; DHEA; Cortisol; IGF-1; Progetesterone; DHT; TSH Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3;
HGH human growth hormone; PSA and CRP

I dont know which ones he will choose.

That will be interesting, will show you exactly whats going on.

Would be even more telling if you can also do the tests in POIS.
Its asking alot as I know I didnt wanna get pricked for blood in POIS mode, although there is blood spot kits available where you can take at home and then send to hospital/laboratory to have them analyse it and then they will post the results within 2 weeks.

[John21 (OP)]

However its common to read after an orgasm one doesnt feel the urge
to have another for days or weeks with Pois sufferers.

This is not my experience nor do I recall it being the case for others on this forum.

For some or many like yourself John it may not be prolactin, testosterone or even hormone related.Although one would not truly know without proper bloodwork too confirm in and out of POIS.

I know that from my own past experience with POIS, after an orgasm at its worst, POIS symptoms lasted up too 2 weeks and during this pois period another orgasm was last thing on my mind as it makes sense, why create even more POIS symptoms when one is still in the POIS period? 2 weeks was long enough.

Symptoms included Heavy brain fog, flu/fever like symptoms, complete exhaustion,discconected/lack of cognitive function,aching all over from muscles, bones, joints etc, eye floaters,headache/migraines,hypertension, anxiety, inflammed/burning eyes,face,body and some more.

I agree that while suffering from POIS willingness to have sex can be reduced but sexual desire can still be present. One thought is from the compulsions sector of the brain, the other one from the control sector. This concludes my in-depth analysis of cerebral mechanics. 

[demografx]

I know from my own & Demo's experience with TRT and lowering prolactin helped cure POIS for good.

I certainly had severe hyperprolactinemia, but I'm not absolutely sure that eliminating the prolactin problem - for me - helped POIS. Then again, it was still fairly early in the TRT process, so I just can't say for sure. You brought it up a couple times, so I just wanted to chime in. It made me think.

I do know that my ED is gone (thankfully!),and I'm not sure if, again, that was the TRT, the prolactin correction, or both.

I'm mostly at the 90%+ cure level, but those few times when I'm not, I would LOVE to get rid of those incidents! And even the remaining 10%-misery is something I'd love to do away with.

[demografx]

It has been about a year and a half since my surgeries to recover from POIS, and I'm glad to report that I am currently 95% cured and have had very minimal recurrence of POIS since my surgeries. POIS has receded from my day to day health concerns, but I am still very committed to understanding and legitimizing the illness.
My life and health have improved dramatically in the last year+1/2. I have an active sex life again without regrets. My life and health have changed dramatically since having the surgeries. I have the personal data and records to prove it. Whether or not my particular approach was legitimate, is open to debate. A lot of us have tried experiments on ourselves and have become our own doctors and record keepers because of the POIS problem. My theory is very closely related to what is currently being discussed on the forum, with the elimination of the production of semen.

Congratulations, Animus, on both your cure and the very significant contribution that you have made to research, and to understanding POIS - for the possibly millions of POIS sufferers worldwide!

I am just a little saddened that you had to go to such extensive lengths with your treatment procedures to find your way to a cure. However, your contribution will make a difference to all of us as well as to future generations!

[demografx]

Would anyone else on this forum be interested in a POIS conference?
I know I would be willing to travel from my city of San Francisco to another city in Europe or USA- wherever it makes the most sense. I think a conference could substantially move our cause forward.
We could have doctors and POIS members contribute their research and experiences. It would 1. Show the size and seriousness of the POIS-suffering community. 2.Attract medical and professional interest. 3. Come to a more accurate definition of POIS- define the illness better. 4. Point out what directions we can go forward in helping people solve the illness. 5. Gain Legitimacy in the medical community.

I would be interested in working with the leaders of this forum to organize this.

               


This is the POIS Conference site that I proposed last year, but no one stepped forward to fund it or organize it  []

[demografx]

This concludes my in-depth analysis of cerebral mechanics. 

Love it, John!! Let's put that to a hip-hop background []

[demografx]

Maybe Daveman was right, maybe it is the TRT that makes mine and Demos sperm count non existant that cures the POIS!

I thought this was worth repeating.

[Animus]

Would anyone else on this forum be interested in a POIS conference?
I know I would be willing to travel from my city of San Francisco to another city in Europe or USA- wherever it makes the most sense. I think a conference could substantially move our cause forward.
We could have doctors and POIS members contribute their research and experiences. It would 1. Show the size and seriousness of the POIS-suffering community. 2.Attract medical and professional interest. 3. Come to a more accurate definition of POIS- define the illness better. 4. Point out what directions we can go forward in helping people solve the illness. 5. Gain Legitimacy in the medical community.

I would be interested in working with the leaders of this forum to organize this.

This is the POIS Conference site that I proposed last year, but no one stepped forward to fund it or organize it  []

ha, Far away from civilization... somehow I don't see dr.Waldinger giving a talk in that little grass hut.
Well, if the conference idea ever does come about, you can count me in.

[Animus]

It has been about a year and a half since my surgeries to recover from POIS, and I'm glad to report that I am currently 95% cured and have had very minimal recurrence of POIS since my surgeries. POIS has receded from my day to day health concerns, but I am still very committed to understanding and legitimizing the illness.
My life and health have improved dramatically in the last year+1/2. I have an active sex life again without regrets. My life and health have changed dramatically since having the surgeries. I have the personal data and records to prove it. Whether or not my particular approach was legitimate, is open to debate. A lot of us have tried experiments on ourselves and have become our own doctors and record keepers because of the POIS problem. My theory is very closely related to what is currently being discussed on the forum, with the elimination of the production of semen.

Congratulations, Animus, on both your cure and the very significant contribution that you have made to research, and to understanding POIS - for the possibly millions of POIS sufferers worldwide!

I am just a little saddened that you had to go to such extensive lengths with your treatment procedures to find your way to a cure. However, your contribution will make a difference to all of us as well as to future generations!

Thank you, demo. I see why they call you a hero member!

[John21 (OP)]

Animus,

I am pursuing further surgery to remove the seminal vesicles, reduce the prostate, and cauterize the ejaculatory ducts. The aim is to achieve a minimum of semen production, and dry ejaculation.
 

Is this what you had performed?

[horizon]

Maybe Daveman was right, maybe it is the TRT that makes mine and Demos sperm count non existant that cures the POIS!

I thought this was worth repeating.

So TRT definitely lowered your sperm count demo?

[horizon]

Would anyone else on this forum be interested in a POIS conference?
I know I would be willing to travel from my city of San Francisco to another city in Europe or USA- wherever it makes the most sense. I think a conference could substantially move our cause forward.

good idea.

But I think the most pressing thing to get is a graph done of how hormones, catecholamines etc rise and fall before an after an orgasm for POIS sufferers compared to a couple of Non-POIS "normal" people.

This would mean a week of blood tests
- Day before orgasm (well out-of-pois)
- During say 30min of arousal (before ejaculation)
- 1min after orgasm
- 1st day after orgasm
- 2nd day after orgasm
- 3rd day after orgasm
- 4th day after orgasm
- 5th day after orgasm

If you had say
2 NON-pois volunteers(graphs for NON-pois maybe exist already)
5-7 POIS volunteers

+ tests for say 15-25 chemicals (hormones (P,T etc)/catecholamines etc.)

EXAMPLES (Total+Free/Bio Testosterone; LH+FSH  (Follicle Stimulating Hormone) (Luteinizing Hormone), Estradiol (E2); SHBG SEX HORMONE GLOBULIN BINDING; Prolactin; DHEA; Cortisol; IGF-1; Progesterone; DHT; TSH Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3; HGH human growth hormone; PSA and CRP, Adrenaline, norepinephrine)

We figure out how much it would cost,
then figure out the cheapest way of getting the results
8 blood tests x about 7 people = ??

would it cost too much???

Maybe NORD, or universities, students, laboratory testers, or private companys, or hospitals could "cut us a deal"
maybe Marnia Robertson knows someone??

We then could do our own analysis from the graph...
or go on and find some people analyse the results...

We've got to take steps ON OUR OWN.
On a positive note, we have the advantage of knowing EXACTLY when and where and how long our illness occurs.

Most health problems like CFS, Epilesy, asthma etc  dont have this advantage.
We must use it to our advantage in finding the answers!