[badgerstripe]

I don't think we can dismiss any cause of POIS (or even the possibility that POIS is a manifestation of something else) until we learn more. That doesn't mean we should be reckless but I reckon most GP's would be shocked at the dosages of niacin that are being taken by some forum members. In the pre salt+c days (under a week ago, nostalgia we seemed to accept there were some risks. We all know why we're doing it. POIS is devastating. On a personal level I'd sacrifice a lot to never have to worry about it again.

Kurtosis is raising a very important topic here. I agree with him when he says that we seem to accept some risks, but there is an important life-problem with this.

From my own vital experience, POIS is not a problem in my life anymore. It seems a nightmare from the past. I have not experienced full-blown POIS state since months(however i have had very minor POIS when something has gone wrong with the niacin, nothing important), but i know that i am not cured and that i am following a treatment(Niacin) that will go with me, at least on the short-term. 150-200mg Niacin some days is a small dose, the worrying point here is that it could turn into a chronic treatment(all of our lives?). Here is the problem: How could this affect us on the long term? It is sure that we are taking some risks? These questions stand the same for GoingCrazy new treatment. The treatment strikes me as an aggressive one, and like demografx has said, i am not sure it would be as good as we could think for all of us; but i am not going to be the one to cast a stone at him. I only will suggest him(and everyone) to ask qualified doctors and check their advice.

So, the main question is: Are we willing to sacrifice our health on the long term for short-term or medium-term relief? I seriously believe this question could become unsubstantial when we get the most answers on this issue, because we wouldnīt need to sacrifice our health again. And right now we have a lot of questions, and very few answers. Dr. Waldinger is only one man;  are we going to wait only for one medical team to resolve this issue and to explore new treatments? Then, it could take an eternity and beyond. As he said during the interview, more research is needed. We need to get the medical community behind us and raise the awareness of this ugly condition. The N.O.R.D. research grant seems to be a very good opportunity to make this happen. Writing e-mails about POIS to different and prominent doctors all over the world is another one.  Letīs put all our strenght into this.

For my part, I am not the one to take my health lightly. I am going to perform blood tests periodically(I did two some time after beginning the niacin treatment). I donīt want to turn into a hypochondriac individual, but i am not going to play with my life. I want to live it at its fullest(like i am doing now) without worrying about my future on this particular issue(which has been the most important on my past).

Finally, i want to show my enormous gratitude to each and every one of you for helping me to change my life and for your words of support about the interview i did. Your success will always be my success. 

I can already see that the stronger Niacin flushes have caused some broken blood vessels on my face, vanity aside it makes me feel uncomfortable that i do not really know the full impact of long term of Niacin on our bodies, i have read that liver damage is a possibility. I am glad of Niacin's fairly obvious reduction of my POIS symptoms though!

I am also very grateful for everyone's contributions on this forum either by sharing their experiences or by getting POIS a more public profile.

[demografx]

The LUPUS reporting seems interesting...but POIS IS NOT LUPUS!

Some of the inflammatory reactions (muscle pain, joint pain, burning eyes) are similar to lupus -- but they're also similar to other vascular/inflammatory/autoimmune conditions.

Lupus -- FYI -- is not exacerbated by ejaculation.

Let's move on to more fertile ground.

Thanks for your cooperation, everyone.

[demografx]

badgerstripe, thanks for your kind words about the Forum!

[John21 (OP)]

Dr Gabe Mirkin is someone I trust as he is always on top of the most recent research. I used to listen to his call in show when it was available here. Here is what he wrote on the dangers of a very low salt diet (archived from 1997):
From: http://www.drmirkin.com/archive/7046.html

Recent research shows that very low-salt diets can harm you (1), and that the vast majority of people will not lower their blood pressures when they reduce their intake of salt (2).

For the last forty years, many doctors have recommended low-salt diets. Many more-recent papers show that severe salt restriction can increase your chances of getting a heart attack (3) by raising blood pressure (4) and blood levels of the bad LDL cholesterol (5). People on low-salt diets have a much higher death rate (5).

 

Also from his archives: http://www.drmirkin.com/nutrition/salt.html

Sea salt and table salt both contain sodium chloride. Sea salt also contains small amounts of magnesium chloride, magnesium sulfate and calcium sulfate, which are nutritionally insignificant. Iodized salt, sea salt, kosher salt and seasoning salts are all treated the same way in your body.

[demografx]

Thanks, John!

[GoingCrazy]

I would like to make a request on this forum: If you advertise that something cures you and then realize that your improvement was unrelated to your 'cure' and that you didnt 'cure' anything, please admit to the group that you were wrong.  This is a scientific forum, and your successes and failures should be equally documented.

Is this directed at someone? or are you just making a statement?  Because I am still feeling no pois on my method, just in case it was directed at me I don't know.  But I did not state that I found a cure (if it was directed at me), I only stated that it has deminished my pois 100% which hasn't happened to me before, so possibly, I may have found something close to a cure but only time will tell for me once I stop it and "O".

Why would you up your salt intake if you are already getting way too much each day from the processed foods you buy in the supermarket ? Its like me saying hey, I've discovered that taking a half a cup of raw sugar gives me relief.

Agreed.

Maybe it is that single large dosage of salt that goes into your bloodstream and is able to do something to POIS, and combined with vitamin C, that may do something.  Maybe just eating normal amounts of salt mixed with different foods makes it less diluted and it doesn't do a good job at all and goes barely noticed in your blood stream.  It's like eating any food with low sugar content, say a semi-healthy cereal like life cereal, and than eating a candy bar.  You will notice the candy bar a lot more.

FIDALGO,  sorry, just the caps to get your attention, I don't know if I believe in the "salt being in your mouth and signal to your brain" idea, but I'm looking forward to hear if it works for you or if it doesn't work for you.  Again, this could have something to do with my body, my genes, my appetite, my health, my results can be completely personal.  It could have even something to do with the claritin 24-hour I had taken beforehand, or the 2 months of  taking that and vitamin C.  But I would like to hear if it helps you, and if does not, I would be glad that you gave it a try.  I haven't felt POIS in quite a while and hope it stays that way.  I love feeling calm and relaxed like I should after an O, my last 4-5 sessions.  I hope it does something for you.

[GoingCrazy]

Observercenter, just curious, how much niacin do you take per day and do you take it before POIS, during a certain time during the day or etc. ? 

I used to take 500 milligrams of niacin pre-O, before I take the treatment I do now, and it actually made me almost feel worse, almost like it put me in POIS.  I realize that was possibly too much?

[B_Daniel]

I would like to make a request on this forum: If you advertise that something cures you and then realize that your improvement was unrelated to your 'cure' and that you didnt 'cure' anything, please admit to the group that you were wrong.  This is a scientific forum, and your successes and failures should be equally documented.

Is this directed at someone? or are you just making a statement?  Because I am still feeling no pois on my method, just in case it was directed at me I don't know.  But I did not state that I found a cure (if it was directed at me), I only stated that it has deminished my pois 100% which hasn't happened to me before, so possibly, I may have found something close to a cure but only time will tell for me once I stop it and "O".

POIS symptoms overlap with those of thousands of disorders and syndromes out there.  Candida, Lyme Disease, Lupus, swamp butt, snotty nose, humabugga, and shmuggbug just to name a few.  And I'm not saying let's not check every one of those for ideas.  But they're not POIS and we shouldn't treat them as such.

Secondly, with regard to my request above - We need to have a 2 week rule or something before we post about supplements that help.  POIS fluctuates daily and is affected by tons of different factors.  It's only natural that under these conditions you're going to discover a bunch of FALSE positives.  That's normal.   But when you have a group of 200, and everyone is sending out these FALSE positives, we'd create an environment where people like Victor.Kons tells us all about Niacin for the first time, and we ignore him because we think it's just another person crying wolf. 

So, wouldn't it be better to hold your Stallion at the gate for an extra 2 weeks, then let it out early when there's a chance it's a weak horse and 50 people will just waste money, time, and hope on the idea?  For all of our benefit, just wait 2 weeks please GoingCrazy, 2 weeks. 

[observercenter]

Observercenter, just curious, how much niacin do you take per day and do you take it before POIS, during a certain time during the day or etc. ? 

I used to take 500 milligrams of niacin pre-O, before I take the treatment I do now, and it actually made me almost feel worse, almost like it put me in POIS.  I realize that was possibly too much?

Hi GoingCrazy, i donīt need to take niacin everyday. I only take niacin(short-acting; pure niacin) before the O. to block POIS; and better in an empty stomach, just to get the flush. On average; I take 150-200 mg every four days.
I believe that taking 500 mg must be unneccesary high, but one should find its effective dose.

[John21 (OP)]

From this Dr Mirkin article it seems that a high salt diet is safe with adequate exercise.

http://www.drmirkin.com/heart/salt_sensitivity.html

Exercise lowers salt sensitivity

Gabe Mirkin, M.D.


 
Excessive intake of salt causes high blood pressure in some, but not all, people. High blood pressure increases risk for heart attacks, strokes, and kidney damage. Why do some people develop high blood pressure when they take in a lot of salt, while others do not? A recent study from the University of Minnesota shows that middle-aged people who start an exercise program lose their tendency to develop high blood pressure when they take in extra salt (Journal of Human Hypertension, May 2006).

All people who exercise frequently and hard need to take in extra salt. During World War II, Dr. James Gamble of Harvard Medical School showed that the only mineral that exercisers need in large quantities is salt. If heavy exercisers don’t take in enough salt, they will eventually run low on salt and suffer fatigue, muscle aches and cramps, and be at increased risk for injuring themselves.

The Minnesota study measured blood pressure in people when they followed a high-salt diet and again when they went on a low-salt diet. The salt-sensitive people who developed high blood pressure on a high-salt diet were started on an exercise program. After six months, many of these people did not develop high blood pressure when they again ate a high-salt diet. This shows that regular exercise can control high blood pressure caused by a high-salt diet. Previous studies show that it is very bad advice to tell most exercisers to restrict their intake of salt. This new study shows that many people who develop high blood pressure from a high salt diet when they are sedentary, will not develop high blood pressure on the same diet when they exercise.

Checked 3/1/08

[greengrass]

Since 2007/2008 I have been suffering from severe nausea, headaches, high temperatures, dizziness and a dry throat. These symptoms happen straight after a wet dream, which occurs during the night or in the early morning.  The symptoms can last from 4 to 10 days or even more, giving me just a few days reprieve before I have another wet dream, which starts the whole horrible cycle all over again.  Furthermore, the systems peak on the day after the wet dream and stay constant from then on.  I have been to the doctors many times, but they have done nothing to help me.   My life is becoming a real misery. Can someone please give me advice?

[Starsky]

What about regular ejauculations? How old are you? Write more about you and your previous treatments. My advice: try niacin and ejauculate once a week to avoid wet dreams.

[greengrass]

Thank you for your reply, starsky. I am 26 years old and have not ejaculated voluntarily for a number of years now.  Five months ago the doctor had given me ibuprofen tablets, which I take two every day. Although the frequency of having wet dreams has decreased from 4 per week to two since taking these tablets, the symptoms however - severe nausea, headaches, high temperatures, dizziness and a dry throat –feel like they are getting worse.

Do I need to have a prescription to obtain niacin?

[observercenter]

Great Job for the TV Documentary !!!

DO NOT HESITATE TO SHARE YOUR BLOOD TEST RESULTS ON THE OTHER FORUM : http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=98.0

It could help us to see some common disfunction... we could even split into sections (hormonal, immunology, vitamin and others) like a real database.
Of course, the most important stays the NORD fund !
Thank you !

Thank you very much Habibou. I donīt have access right now to my blood test results, but i will post them when i get them.

[observercenter]

Do I need to have a prescription to obtain niacin?

No, you donīt . You can get in any herb store. Be sure to get the short-acting, pure niacin.

Your case sounds very uncommon, your frequency of wet dreams is really high.

[greengrass]

4 was the max amount of wet dreams, but on average it was about two. 

Thank you for the information

[GoingCrazy]

Observercenter, just curious, how much niacin do you take per day and do you take it before POIS, during a certain time during the day or etc. ? 

I used to take 500 milligrams of niacin pre-O, before I take the treatment I do now, and it actually made me almost feel worse, almost like it put me in POIS.  I realize that was possibly too much?

Hi GoingCrazy, i donīt need to take niacin everyday. I only take niacin(short-acting; pure niacin) before the O. to block POIS; and better in an empty stomach, just to get the flush. On average; I take 150-200 mg every four days.
I believe that taking 500 mg must be unneccesary high, but one should find its effective dose.

Ok, thanks for your reply.  How does your sleep during the days when you take it compare to those days that you don't take it?

[daveman]

Hi all,

I've been so busy, just got back to revise the last two pages or so I hadn't seen.

B_Daniel, I like your 2 wks rule. Sot of like buying a gun, and maybe not far off the mark here. A sort of "cool down" time. A time to really be sure that what  you have is consistent. There are 300+ readers here, and one simple misplaced proposition of "cure" can have them all running to give it a try.

Hopefully we can contribute, but "contribute" means "help". If we give erred information with little support, we may well not be helping.

When we are in POIS and suffering from it, any coincidence whether it is good or bad, seems to be directly related to POIS. I get a gas pain and I think it's POIS, I get a twitch in a leg muscle and I think it's POIS, I take a shower and my POIS gets better, it must be a cure!

What I have a hard time understanding is, why are we so ready to jump all over "whatever hint" and yet most of us are very sluggish about making a donation to the fund for REAL research?

We should be ALL OVER IT. A real research program to know for sure what POIS is what causes it so we can STOP puting poisons in our body and get on with a regular life.

[demografx]

B_Daniel, I like your 2 wks rule. Sot of like buying a gun, and maybe not far off the mark here. A sort of "cool down" time. A time to really be sure that what  you have is consistent. There are 300+ readers here, and one simple misplaced proposition of "cure" can have them all running to give it a try.

Hopefully we can contribute, but "contribute" means "help". If we give erred information with little support, we may well not be helping.

When we are in POIS and suffering from it, any coincidence whether it is good or bad, seems to be directly related to POIS. I get a gas pain and I think it's POIS, I get a twitch in a leg muscle and I think it's POIS, I take a shower and my POIS gets better, it must be a cure!

What I have a hard time understanding is, why are we so ready to jump all over "whatever hint" and yet most of us are very sluggish about making a donation to the fund for REAL research?

We should be ALL OVER IT. A real research program to know for sure what POIS is what causes it so we can STOP puting poisons in our body and get on with a regular life.

I've been here since 2007 and if we applied the "2 week rule", 90%+ of the "cures" would evaporate.

Poof!

The worst part is the crushing disappointment when all hopes are up (unmerited), and then the inevitable...crash.

I was very cautious - even skeptical - in believing my own testosterone success for the first 6 months.

[Vasian1980]

My symptoms started a year ago after a sore throat, gradually saw the crunch in the joints. Recently revealed streptococcus and Staphylococcus aureus, what do you think about this?