[Gbolduev]

Andrea,

I thought you mentioned that your aldosterone was on the low side. And since  I see progesterone up, I  assume that the ratio is inversed.  cortisol side  is progesterone dominance,  aldosterone side is  estrogen dominance.   

This is not really intuitive approach,  it is hard for me to explain all this here.
Serioulsy why dont  you stop  guessing , just  do the hair test and you will see for yourself that I was right  on your . case.Hair test will show your metabolism  as an open book, I will basically tell you everything about you .AHAHAH
Bound  to albumin calcium is not bioavailable calcium , ionized calcium is active form.,   your ionized is probably impaired  and not bioavailable for  many reasons and may that is why your  total calcium is high. If it  is not bioavailable, it would   be taken from your bones even  if you have  high calcium bound  like in your case /   Since your rate of metabolism was slow, you were high in not bioavailable calcium and ionized was missing,    that is how you get osteroporosis .  I am not sure, if you had one,  according to what you said you must have had bad bones.

[Gbolduev]

Andrea,  your cortisol is not high ,  it is higher than optimal.  I think you misunderstood me  When I say high or low, I dont mean  stupid  lab ranges, I mean   the optimal the middle.   lets say    aldosterone  is in range but  in low part and  cortisol is  in range but higher part- you have a problem.

[urano75]

Herman,

thanks. I'm not trying guessing, I'm trying understanding :-) Because every doctor I speak to has his own point of view and model, so I like learning from different points of view and models to make my own idea of what's really going on and find my own way. It hopefully makes sense to everyone.
I've learnt lots of things from these exchanges with you here.

I will take a ionized calcium test next time together with the rest, to see if that's an issue.

You saw my aldosterone numbers, it's 172 (mid-range). We've discussed about apparently contradicting blood/saliva cortisol values, you don't give them much importance but it's what we're basing our discussion here. Looking at blood after T3, yes cortisol is upper range and aldosterone is mid-range, which you associate to progesterone dominance possibly caused by the use of T3. We don't know how the whole picture was before T3, apart that cortisol (blood) was lower. DHEA-S is low anyway. And all this thread started from testosterone numbers, which I am not sure if they are adequate or not. In the meantime we've touched several different topics, and this has given me some ideas for an action plan. Even though I must confess I'm a bit confused.

My idea in all this is that my problem was not much low cortisol (and steroid hormones) itself, but a kind of adrenal instability for which they become rapidly and easily exhausted at the minimum stress (orgasm, sun exposure, exercise, insufficient sleep). Labs won't reveal it because I always take them in quiet days. Possibly this cortisol (and steroids) ups and downs contribute to rT3 excess. Even though T3 will help increasing adrenal output on the average, I'm not sure it will really help with improving their stability. Also, from what you say, it might also create further imbalances.

Now, you convinced me that hair analysis would provide valuable information if you know how to interpret it, and I'll give it a try (check your email). I wonder, with all the things I've been doing and changing in the last months, if it will reflect the current situation or an average over a timespan, while things are probably rapidly changing. I hope it will be clear how to move on from there.

[Gbolduev]

Andrea, 

I think  you were stressed out,  and  your adrenals might have gotten weak, and   you accumulated some toxic  copper may be.  That created  vicious cycle and  supressed your cortisol.  That is why you could not handle stress at all, since then  you were providing adrenal support, that increased your ceruloplasmin  which  made copper  more bioavailable and  you feel better.  But what I think  is missing  is magnanese for now and   lower  T3 to  balance with aldosterone.  Since when thyroid is higher than adrenals, it puts a lot of burden on them. You dont want that at all.

Good luck, I will check out my e-mail

[overextended]

gbolduev won't help 100%

[Starsky]

Why are you so sure?

[overextended]

Checked for itself

[overextended]

and the Russian forum

[Gbolduev]

Emin( overextended),

Dont worry about  other people,  look at yourself only.  You were banned from 2 forums , this one and the Russian  one.  I will not take you on  as a patient,  dont even try. I told you that, sorry but I  frankly cant help you/
80% of people feel much better on the russian forum,  some of them  got rid of antidepressants that they took for years,  some of them got rid of POIS , and some are in process of getting rid   of dystonia.
People that I help know how I treat them  and  you  writing me  messages everyday and stalkng me it out of this world.

[urano75]

Herman,
a couple of brief questions on your conclusions for my case. I don't want to take too much of your time, but I think that most people could benefit from some clarifications, that's why I keep this thread public. I couldn't sometimes understand your statements in the past before asking direct questions to you, and this exchange is helping understand a bit more.

1- Can you please explain why using T3 the way I do (Circadian Method) should in principle increase progesterone/cortisol and not aldosterone or other steroid hormones? Shouldn't T3 boost overall adrenal activity, and so all the steroids pathways, from pregnenolone synthesis downwards to progesterone, cortisol, aldosterone, DHEA and sex hormones? If so, would it just put in bigger evidence a preexisting cortisol/aldosterone imbalance (preexisting regardless of T3 therapy I mean)?
Or does T3 increase selectively and specifically only the progesterone/cortisol pathway leaving the other steroids unaltered, just because cortisol is so important for thyroid hormones to work at cellular level? I am globally feeling better while on T3, so any decision to lower or stop should be careful evaluated before. The labs you saw were when I was at 50mcg of T3 a day, now I am at 75mcg so, according to your view, it could be even worse.

2- I can understand why you relate high cortisol/aldosterone ratio to progesterone dominance, but don't understand why you call the opposite situation estrogenic dominance. Isn't aldosterone synthesized from progesterone the same as cortisol? Aren't sex hormones (testosterone, estrogens) produced via a different pathway (DHEA)? What factors decide how much progesterone is converted to cortisol and how much to aldosterone? Has DHEA/sex hormones anything to do with it?

3- You mentioned about potential copper toxicity in my case (it's probably a guess, hair analysis would confirm). If this is really the case, is it a good idea to keep copper supplementation right now?

4- Doing a hair analysis now, after 5 months on T3, would give a picture of my metabolic state while on T3, right? Which will probably be different from the pre-T3 one, it could be a dramatic difference, correct? As I don't want to use T3 for the life (currently evaluating my plans), does it make sense to do a hair analysis right now? I guess that, few months after weaning off T3, I'll have to do another one?

Thanks,
Andrea

[Erik]

Hi Friends,

It do not like directly into the subject, but I think back on the zinc theory. With the sperm look is much zinc is lost. Zinc is an important part but all hormones, especially the sex hormones, and it plays a key role in glucose metabolism, lipid and protein metabolism. If you look at the symptoms of deficiency looks, you could even think it would have anything to do with POIS.
I'm going to do some time, zinc and observe the changes.

regards Erik

[Gbolduev]

Andrea,

Sorry, I  am going to be  short, since it is Sunday. I just saw your message.
Basically,  T3  stimulates cortisol only, and  actually lowers aldosterone.  There is no doubt in my mind about it. I think  mechanism  is thru  serotonin  influence of T3. 
With spike of aldosterone    copper is being retained, that is why  high ratio aldosterone  cortisol could be called  estrogen  dominance or symptathetic nervous system dominance.
I think you should do the test  now while you are on  Т3  so you can see where you stand with your current dosage and supplements.

When you  get your hair test, we can go over it with you no problem,  and if you wish to  balance yourself on your own , that is fine, I can only suggest things. 

Talk to you tommorow, I need to run

[urano75]

Herman,

thanks for your answers. There's really no rush, so take your time.
You actually intrigued me further with T3 lowering aldosterone thru a serotonin mechanism, so if one day you'll want to explain it better, I'll gladly learn.

Cheers,
Andrea

[GDRTW]

I have started taking zinc and magnesuim supplements and they have helped me without a doubt. Like I have mentioned before my biggest problem is burning eyes. The sleep when taking these supplements is more of the healing kind. It means I can nap for 15-30 mins and get considerable relief with my sensitive eyes. I am certain there is a big zinc issue at work here. I will try melotonin supplements shortly.

[LAPOISSE2]

Hi All,

I recently tried piracetam(1,5g/day) ;soi far(5days), the effect on fatigue and cognition is pretty amazing. I would be interested to have informations about your experience with this smart drug.
This is probably a short term relief and It's probably a symptomatic cure but still, it seems to be interesting drug with much less sides effects than others.

Thanks

[CertainlyPOIS]

Hi All,

I recently tried piracetam(1,5g/day) ;soi far(5days), the effect on fatigue and cognition is pretty amazing. I would be interested to have informations about your experience with this smart drug.
This is probably a short term relief and It's probably a symptomatic cure but still, it seems to be interesting drug with much less sides effects than others.

Thanks

if you go to other forum there is a section on nootropics.
most people it didnt help.

[Vincent M]

I have started taking zinc and magnesuim supplements and they have helped me without a doubt. Like I have mentioned before my biggest problem is burning eyes. The sleep when taking these supplements is more of the healing kind. It means I can nap for 15-30 mins and get considerable relief with my sensitive eyes. I am certain there is a big zinc issue at work here. I will try melotonin supplements shortly.

How long were you on the zinc and magnesium before you noticed improvement? Also what forms of the vitamins did you take? Was it zinc glycinate and magnesium chelate? And what dose? I've taken small amounts of zinc gluconate and magnesium oxide occasionally, but haven't had any benefit from them.

[urano75]

Interesting table of adrenals/thyroid symptoms:

http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-symptoms-matrix

[LAPOISSE2]

There is something I wanted to share :

It's been 3 times I follow the same POIS cycle.

After a POIS period(4-5days), I totally abstain from O...i'm OK for 6 to 7 days...and then POIS come back even if I don't O for about 10 days....I don't notice NE. If I wanna recover from this I need to go through a new cycle with 4 days of hell POIS.
I don't know how to explain that...It could be stress or it could be something else.

What about you guys ?

[B_Daniel]

Interesting table of adrenals/thyroid symptoms:

http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-symptoms-matrix

Great table