[MrVat7]

People with infertility have high antisperm antibody count, The thing is my antisperm antibody count is high, still I am fertile. That may be a sort of proof ( there's more proof to be found though ) for SSBT .

Antisperm antibodies are created only when sperm enters blood. Small amount of these antibodies are produced during puberty , but I am having elevated concentration of antisperm antibodies. This does Imply Spill of Sperm in blood. Then and only then this level of antibody can be produced in my body .

MrVat7

Hi MrVat7, I'm 54, I have children and I have pois. I find very interesting the results of your ASA. I read the list of the vitamins that you tried. Except Biotin and Inositol, I tried all the other on your list  without any result. I tried flunarizin whit some good result but the side effects were very important. Fatigue was the most important side effect, I was sleeping 12 hours a day. Niacin gave some result. What kind of other test will you try for your ASA? When you had your blood test for ASA, how much time you did it after having an O?

Hello KingKong

To get blood tested for ASA I took Abstinence for upto 20 days post ejaculation. Main reason for waiting upto 20days or so that ASA concentration can increase in the body, so that one gets notable results. ASA gets consumed whenever there is sperm spill. So we let ASA to increase upto maximum level that it can, and then get blood tested.

Note that not everyone has high levels of ASA in their body. These are rare antibodies and created only when sperm comes in contact with blood.

MrVat7

[acronym]

Is everyone here fertile

Excluding few who have got some of their reproductive organs removed (i dont remember names ) . members here including me , are fertile.

I am curious noone, what is your logic behind asking this question ?

You don't know that about us, and possibly even yourself. Have you got a girl pregnant yet (and were confident she was not having sex with other man behind your back)?  To me fertile, means more than just producing ejaculate. Even then if there is sperm is it very little or its not healthy or are covered in antibodies.
For me I can't say as I don't have any children and have not wanted any.

MrVat - Can you ask your pathologist why the reference range for the ASA test is <75. If any ASA is not good then why is the reference range not much lower like 20. My guess is that doctors don't care if you have some ASA as its no big deal from a health perspective and only becomes an issue as the level gets high as it then starts to adversely effect the guy's ability to conceive.

[acronym]

Hi I have had POIS since about 50.
......

gcrisp - I am always interested in those who few who get pois after puberty. I suspect you would have mentioned it, but I have to ask, was there any changes to your life - diet, meds, supplements, stress, moved to a new city, change in sexual practices, got another medical condition (apart from migraines) around 50? Did it come on slowly and get worse over the year?
There were a couple of other guys on here who got it later in life. One seemed to have screwed up his endocrine system by going heavy on penis enlargement + libido pills. Another guy was partying heavy and I suspect may have effected his endocrine system as well, doing drugs for sport.

[gcrisp]

acronym,
I guess I started following doctors orders about that time and had been taking the usual medications doctors prescribe as you get older, and also all the other things like diet control, no saturated fats, etc, cholesterol reducing statins. Now, without medical supervision I have dropped the statins, and gone back to a realistic diet with plenty of saturated fats as an important part. I have also started taking the Youngevity broad spectrum of vitamins, minerals etc as food supplement. All I am certain of is that the POIS has stopped dead in its tracks, whereas previously, it was always there and so that part of my life was on hold!. At this time, I feel it was the dropping of statins, and the change in diet that has done the trick, leading to more available cholesterol in my system.
Their are many interesting articles on this on the www.thincs.org [nofollow] site
cheers
g

[acronym]

gcrisp - thanks for the info. Very interesting. So you got POIS at 50 but got rid of it a few years later by boosting your cholesterol. My cholesterol is actually on the low side when I had it measured say 8 yrs ago. In the last few years I have added more fats & oils to my diet. My pois is not so bad but its not gone (but I have also taken other meds/supps in that time).
Did you happen to get any blood tests around that time of some of your hormones (which are made from cholesterol) or since you changed your diet?
You would think maybe pois symptoms though would be listed as side effects for statin drugs possibly....but is that the case?

[vik1379]

Hi I have had POIS since about 50.
......

gcrisp - I am always interested in those who few who get pois after puberty. I suspect you would have mentioned it, but I have to ask, was there any changes to your life - diet, meds, supplements, stress, moved to a new city, change in sexual practices, got another medical condition (apart from migraines) around 50? Did it come on slowly and get worse over the

Hi!
I am 44. I have had pois at 42. It was a time of big stress and it started against the background of increased sexual activity.

[MrVat7]

Is everyone here fertile

Excluding few who have got some of their reproductive organs removed (i dont remember names ) . members here including me , are fertile.

I am curious noone, what is your logic behind asking this question ?

You don't know that about us, and possibly even yourself. Have you got a girl pregnant yet (and were confident she was not having sex with other man behind your back)?  To me fertile, means more than just producing ejaculate. Even then if there is sperm is it very little or its not healthy or are covered in antibodies.
For me I can't say as I don't have any children and have not wanted any.

MrVat - Can you ask your pathologist why the reference range for the ASA test is <75. If any ASA is not good then why is the reference range not much lower like 20. My guess is that doctors don't care if you have some ASA as its no big deal from a health perspective and only becomes an issue as the level gets high as it then starts to adversely effect the guy's ability to conceive.

Acronym

I have assumed that everyone here is fertile as there has not been any complaint for fertility. Few have POIS and have got children. For me , Ive got semen test long back ago , I had got 35 million/ ml of sperm count , and sperm was healthy. I am curious why my body has developed ASA.

More reference values for ASA test are as follows.

     Result > 20    ASA present
        0-60 U/ml   normal
         above 60    elevated values     

MrVat7 

[Kima]

We must look at the direction of vagus nerve. Knowingly Dr. Komisaruk offered to explore this nerve. I think the vagus nerve is associated with penile .

[drmmeha]

I cant believe there has been such a thread for six years and I just have found about it.
I am a 21 year old guy from Egypt. I have been suffering from POIS for 5 years. but it kind of exaggarated three years ago(severe cognitive malfunction, Severe insomnia, bad temper with depression & with almost all the symptoms mentioned here)
It is a kind of relief that What I'm suffering from is an acknowledged disease and Some people have the same thing. I thought I was alone in this.

I want to share my last three-month experience, you might find it helpful with your case. Since then, I haven't had the same Post-orgasmic severe symptoms. I am NOT CURED, but I feel relatively better . If you are going to try it, Please let me know about the results.
- I got rid of every source of stress when Possible (I got out of a devastating relationship)
- I stopped Masturbating with my own hand, I just rub my genitalia against something soft and keep my arms and hand totally relaxed (I dont make it move at all),  I depend on lower back muscles for the movement needed for the process.  I NEVER LET MY HANDS TOUCH MY PENIS DURING MASTURBATION. and IT SURPRISINGLY WORKS, THE SEVERITY OF SYMPTOMS HAS BEEN MUCH REDUCED AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY! YOU MIGHT THINK ITS A JOKE, BUT IT IS NOT! and I recover REALLY FAST compared to Masturbating with my hands
- I reduced my Masturbation Frequency
- I started to practice swimming.
- I have been doing Shoulder and upper back slight work out.
- I started to take Supplements with extra vitamins, Mg, Ca, Zinc.

I want to state again that I AM NOT CURED! this is just what helped me with my Symptoms, I hope it helps you too till they find a cure.

BEST OF LUCK

[supernova3382]

Hello all. I'm here to possibly find answers to help my boyfriend. He's convinced he's alone in this and I'm trying to find even the smallest amount of information on this because no one else on the internet seems to know what's going on. He doesn't have health insurance so he won't and can't see someone about this and he's convinced it's just going to get better because he says he's never experienced this before (21 yr old). I, on the other hand, am afraid it's not going to be that simple. And I want to be able to understand this so maybe I can attempt to make it easier for him to recover from what we call his "lethargy".  Ever since we started dating, he's always complained of general uncomfortableness and lethargy after ejaculating. And not just through sexual contact with me but any time it happens.

He's out of commission for about 5 days. He feels absolutely awful for the first two, better on the third, and by the fifth day he feels completely normal.  However, in the last month this seems to have gotten significantly harder. The symptoms I've heard him complain about are:
-Brain Fog
-headaches
-general lethargy
-weakness
-dizziness
-increased heart rate (says it feels like its having trouble pumping blood or something)
-hot flashes
-GI upset, sometimes constipation, other times nausea
-horrible joint pain in his knees and ankles
-dry eyes
-thirsty all the time

More recently, he's developed issues sleeping, he just cannot get a good night of sleep and he's been developing what I could only describe as anxiety and maybe some depression. (I suffer from both so I can at least kind of relate to those two.) He used to be a gym junkie and worked out all the time, and he's hoping that that will aid him in being able to recover from this faster. He also takes a bunch of supplements like fish oil, grape seed extract, glucosamine, and ect. From what I know he's also stopped masturbating as well to offset this from happening. He has also had a history of issues with autoimmune diseases, and awhile back he got his eyes checked out for the dryness and they said it could possibly be that. Since then, everything has gotten steadily worse and he hasn't gotten tested for any autoimmune issues yet.

The timeline for all of this happening is about three months.

If anyone has anything to suggest, please let us know. It's hard watching this happen to him so I can't even imagine what it feels like for him.

[MrVat7]

Hello Supernova

I appreciate your dedication to your boyfriend. He may be suffering from POIS. Well there isnt a cure found out till now for POIS. What he can do is to take certain measure before ejaculation so that he feels lesser of symptoms(brain fog, Fatigue etc)  after an ejaculation. One thing that has helpes almost all poisers is taking niacin before ejaculation. He can start with taking 50-70 mg of Flush Niacin ( make sure it's flush niacin and not flush free) before an ejaculation. Wait until flush has Passed ( usually takes 10-15 minutes for flush to disappear ) and then he can ejaculate. Believe me, If he is suffering from POIS this will significantly help him to reduce symptoms after an ejaculation.

MrVat7

[MrVat7]

 I just Discovered that we Poisers Can/May be suffering from cerebral hypoxia. Cerebral hypoxia in Poisers can be cause of cognitive dysfunction we POISers feel. I explain this phenomena as follows.

It begins as ,After ejaculation , body detects some spilled substance in bloodstream(possible sperm cells ). So in order to protect brain from that spilled substance there is cerebral vasoconstriction in poisers, which is generally well known. Now Why cerebral vasoconstriction? Because in order to protect brain from foreign spilled particle ,body feels it is necessary that, the spilled particle does not enter brain and damage it. So the arteries to brain gets narrowed, So flow of spill gets reduced to brain. With the same action of vasoconstriction bloodflow also decreases. Think of it this way, If a garden water hose was replaced with long chain of straws , the output would be reduced a lot times. There comes cerebral hypoxia. As the bloodflow decreases, oxygen required for the brain to keep working also decreases, so that neurons get depleted of oxygen for proper functioning. Making one feel poor coordination , lack of attention , poor memory , fatigue , and sleepy. To get more knowledge on cerebral hypoxia refer this article from wikipedia.

The brain requires approximately 3.3 ml of oxygen per 100 g of brain tissue per minute. Initially the body responds to lowered blood oxygen by redirecting blood to the brain and increasing cerebral blood flow. Blood flow may increase up to twice the normal flow but no more. If the increased blood flow is sufficient to supply the brain’s oxygen needs then no symptoms will result. [19]
However, if blood flow cannot be increased or if doubled blood flow does not correct the problem, symptoms of cerebral hypoxia will begin to appear. Mild symptoms include difficulties with complex learning tasks and reductions in short-term memory. If oxygen deprivation continues, cognitive disturbances and decreased motor control will result.[19] The skin may also appear bluish (cyanosis) and heart rate increases. Continued oxygen deprivation results in fainting, long term loss of consciousness, coma, seizures, cessation of brain stem reflexes, and brain death.[20]
Objective measurements of the severity of cerebral hypoxia depend on the cause. Blood oxygen saturation may be used for hypoxic hypoxia, but is generally meaningless in other forms of hypoxia. In hypoxic hypoxia 95-100% saturation is considered normal. 91-94% is considered mild. 86-90% is considered moderate. Anything below 86% is considered severe.[21]
It should be noted that cerebral hypoxia refers to oxygen levels in brain tissue, not blood. Blood oxygenation will usually appear normal in cases of hypemic, ischemic and hystoxic cerebral hypoxia. Even in hypoxic hypoxia blood measures are only an approximate guide – the oxygen level in the brain tissue will depend on how the body deals with the reduced oxygen content of the blood.

it is because of cerebral hypoxia Poisers feel dementic. Niacin is a vasodialator and it helps maintaining blood flow to brain , reducing cerebral hypoxia. We POISers have a vasoconstriction regulated by the body so cerebral hypoxia never crosses it's limit to make one faint or to go in comma. At max POISer feels sleepy all the time.

MrVat7



 

[acronym]

MrVat - With your theory of Cerebral hypoxia, then ask your doctor about this, given that he presumably sees a number of men who get the ASA test..or if not then maybe he has a colleague who works at fertility clinic who sees many men with high ASA. If these other patients of his score above say 50 then they should get pois symptoms presumably from cerebral hypoxia like us.

The articles I read on men at fertility clinics who had high antibody levels, never mentioned the guy having any adverse health conditions as a result. The clinic doctors also did not seem to treat them with any drug to deal with the ASA, rather the treatment was of their sperm which was cleaned of antibodies then the wife was artificially inseminated.

Also since Niacin is a vasodialator, why does it not work taking it after an O, as it does taking it just before an O?

How do you account for some of the guys in their 40s getting symptoms for the first time in their life? I'd be surprised if 'faulty plumbing' suddenly occurs for these guys (though its possible) so now they get sperm spilling into their body fluid/blood.

[gcrisp]

well put Acronym!
I have no medical qualifications, but I also don't have POIS any more and I attribute that to a few very distinct changes I made.
I think specific things like niacin or other things that have been suggested are just hiding the symptoms rather than bringing your body back to an ideal state where it is not starved of important nutritional minerals, vitamins, amino acids, essential fatty acids etc.
If any one with consistent POIS is interested I would like to propose a test for 30 days. Please let me know if you are interested. (It will cost you about $2.50 per day). Best $2.50 I ever spent......
g

[MrVat7]

MrVat - With your theory of Cerebral hypoxia, then ask your doctor about this, given that he presumably sees a number of men who get the ASA test..or if not then maybe he has a colleague who works at fertility clinic who sees many men with high ASA. If these other patients of his score above say 50 then they should get pois symptoms presumably from cerebral hypoxia like us.

The articles I read on men at fertility clinics who had high antibody levels, never mentioned the guy having any adverse health conditions as a result. The clinic doctors also did not seem to treat them with any drug to deal with the ASA, rather the treatment was of their sperm which was cleaned of antibodies then the wife was artificially inseminated.

Also since Niacin is a vasodialator, why does it not work taking it after an O, as it does taking it just before an O?

How do you account for some of the guys in their 40s getting symptoms for the first time in their life? I'd be surprised if 'faulty plumbing' suddenly occurs for these guys (though its possible) so now they get sperm spilling into their body fluid/blood.

Hello Acronym

I appreciate your questions and recruitment, I have answer to all of them .
Starting with- infertile men, have high ASA counts, do not feel any symptoms of POIS is because they have imperfect blood-testis junction. So blood comes in contact with sperm cell,develop ASA and harm it. People with such problem get infertile. Also they develop High ASA count. They do not feel any cognitive problems we POISers feel because their sperm has 'not' entered bloodstream (Fight goes on in testis). So no vasoconstriction is ordered by the body, therefore they have no cerebral hypoxia.

People with high ASA can be either infertile or have POIS. Both POIS and infertility can cause to develop elevated ASA levels. People with High ASA and cerebral hypoxia should have POIS. I will search on for such people.

-->Niacin Before an O,

Niacin Helps before an O as, When one has took niacin before an O it orders Vasodialation, now After ejaculation body orders for vasoconstriction, So both the forces get equal and opposite and cancel each other. POISer feels normal As bloodflow remains normal. Vasodialating effects of niacin are for long time and it maintains normal bloodflow till POISer gets relieved from symptoms.

--> Taking Niacin After an O.

When body Is already vasoconstricted after an O, many narrow blood channels like that in brain get even more narrowed, Bloodflow to those channels has already decreased So that amount of niacin required in those channels to create it's vasodialating effects gets insufficient. Take it this way, Earlier (before an O) suppose 2mg of niacin entered a channel and created helpful effects , now due to vasoconstriction and narrow blood channel say like 0.25mg of niacin could enter that channel. Still some vasodoalation is there but it is not enough and we may feel cerebral hypoxia. And By channels I mean arteries to brain. So , taking niacin after an O, Both the forces are not equal, vasoconstriction is dominant. Therefore It is required that Niacin must be taken before an O. in order to elevate from POIS symptoms.

POIS from puberty is essentially 'plumbing problem' but for some people in their 40's that have developed POIS, Many factors may be involved that caused semen spill in them . It may be that their prostate has start the spill or seminal vesicle. tough question though, Place of Spill should be determined experimentally and spill site may differ from person-person.

MrVat7

[POIS-SUFFERER]

well put Acronym!
I have no medical qualifications, but I also don't have POIS any more and I attribute that to a few very distinct changes I made.
I think specific things like niacin or other things that have been suggested are just hiding the symptoms rather than bringing your body back to an ideal state where it is not starved of important nutritional minerals, vitamins, amino acids, essential fatty acids etc.
If any one with consistent POIS is interested I would like to propose a test for 30 days. Please let me know if you are interested. (It will cost you about $2.50 per day). Best $2.50 I ever spent......
g

Waiting for it..... :-)

PS.

[gcrisp]

Hi Pois-Sufferer
Thanks for your response.
The only thing you need to do in advance is source the following product: (and I get no kickbacks here, they don't know me from a bar of soap): Youngevity  "On-the-go Healthy start pack" available from a myriad of sources. This is the most complete food supplement that they say is sourced purely from plant and animals as nature intended. No pseudo minerals created in labs!
One months worth is about $70... A bit over $2 per day...
I'll talk about the rest after we see if anyone else wants to join in, prob in about a week.
Are your problems consistent? It will be a benefit if they are (to the test) so we can be aware quickly of any improvement.
g

[MrVat7]

I have given my blood to test for ASA. This test is being done in my bad times. So I am expecting that ASA values will be decreased than earlier (good times ) . Lets see. Result is to come on day after tomorrow. If expected occurs it's good for me , good for POISers . Hoping to get expected results. Stay tuned . I am to post genuine result Asap here.

MrVat7

[POIS-SUFFERER]

Hi Pois-Sufferer
Thanks for your response.
The only thing you need to do in advance is source the following product: (and I get no kickbacks here, they don't know me from a bar of soap): Youngevity  "On-the-go Healthy start pack" available from a myriad of sources. This is the most complete food supplement that they say is sourced purely from plant and animals as nature intended. No pseudo minerals created in labs!
One months worth is about $70... A bit over $2 per day...
I'll talk about the rest after we see if anyone else wants to join in, prob in about a week.
Are your problems consistent? It will be a benefit if they are (to the test) so we can be aware quickly of any improvement.
g

Very consistent and very much along the same lines as everyone else! Takes weeks to get over..... and very hard not to restart! :-(

[MrVat7]

Okay so here are results for second ASA test.

Parameter                                               Result             Unit                 Reference interval
*Antisperm antibody serum                       53               U/ml                        <75

The ASA have significantly reduced by value of 8 . May not seem much but to solve a spill of say 0.5 ml , it would not require much of ASAs . I did got this this after a wet dream. Sperms have strong antigens on their surface and that is why it takes about a week to kill all spilled sperms. and until all sperms are not killed and removed from the body , vasoconstriction will be dominant. And by this I would like to implant a idea of SSBT on my fellow readers. Spilled Sperms in the Bloodstream must be the cause of POIS.

MrVat7