[marco (OP)]

In the following site I analyse the incongruencies of the materialistic conception of the mind, on the basis of our present scientific knowledges of brain and matter.
This analysis points out how science  proves that the brain cannot generate consciousness, which existence implies  the presence in man of a unbiological/unmaterial entity. The problem of consciousness is then strictly connected to the one of the existence of the soul and, consequently, the existence of God.

 http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/fedeescienza/englishnf [nofollow]

Marco Biagini

Ph.D. Graduated in Solid State Physics.

[Quantumcat]

The person who wrote this has not the TINIEST clue about brains (or computers) ... I don't often use the word 'crap' but this site is a big pile of it !!

In any case, in the first few paragraphs I counted 25 spelling mistakes, but then I stopped counting. I copied some things from the first bit of it (I was kind of too disgusted to read any more) that that were the most silly.

"Every materialistic attempt to explain the existence of consciousness implies that what suffers, loves, desires, feels etc. in us are objects such as electrons or electromagnetic fields. The point is that objects can feel nothing at all; objects cannot feel happiness, sadness, love, anger,self-awareness, etc. "

Firstly, the entire report says that sensations emotions etc. are due from electrons, which isn't right, it's ions. Secondly, it's not the ions themselves that think, it's the way they move about the giant complicated network of the brain, and accomplish giant calculations (well not calculations, but you know what I mean) I'm not all that computery, but I know a little bit about logic gates and so forth, obviously this person has never even heard of them.

"There is no trace of consciousness, sensations, emotions, etc. in the equations of physics."



"If one hypothesizes that the electromagnetic fields are responsible of our sensations, emotions and thoughts, the only logical conclusion would be that also our television, our washing machine, etc. sometimes would be happy or depressed."

Washing machines don't have brains! Duh! The brain is a machine that uses ions to calculate things, but obviously, like, in a really complicated way.

In fact, an electric impulse is formed only by some electrons moving in a certain direction; according to the laws of physics, electrons are all equal and indistinguishable, and they are always moving in every material or electric circuits.

It's the way you use them that counts! Of course an electron can't think! That's like saying You can't build sand castles because all sand grains are the same. The brain is the child that sculpts the sand, sort of.


To ascribe to the electrons in our brain the property to generate consciousness, and not to ascribe the same property to the electrons moving in a bulb, is in contradiction with one of the fundamental principle of physics, the Pauli Exclusion Principle, that establishes that all electrons are equal and indistinguishable, that is they have all exactly the same properties.

Same as above. It's what you do with them that counts.

In conclusion, the laws of physics deny the basic hypothesis of materialism, according to which consciousness would be generated by cerebral processes. The laws of physics do not allow us to explain (neither conceptually ), the existence of consciousness; they allow to explain neither the existence of the most banal sensation.

Yes they do, at least, neurobiology has shown how sensations happen and are analysed by the brain ... you learn about how nerves send feelings to the brain when you're 7 or 8! There's a quote that goes: 'If our brain was simple enough for us to understand it, we'd be so stupid we wouldn't be able to understand it anyway' Neurobiologists know how simple animals' brains work.

Science has proved that ur brain is only a set of particles (that is an object), and that biological life consists uniquely in a succession of chemical reactions, which, in their turn, consist uniquely in physical processes (more precisely, in quantum-electromagnetic processes). On the other hand, consciousness transcends th laws of physics and cannot then be considered the product of biological and cerebral processes. This implies that our mind and our brain are not the same entity, but two different yet interacting entities.

Where's the proof conciousness transcends the laws of physics? You said it like it's a fact! You don't write like a real scientist.

Then there was a whole lot of crud about how animals are biological machines. He said before that sensations transcend the laws of physics and require a soul to happen ... so he said there's no proof animals feel sensations!!! We are animals! Our brain is constructed in the same way as an animal's, only slightly more complicated. If we had souls and animals didn't, don't you think they'd be completely different?

This guy is talking of the top of his head and has no idea what he's on about, really. Just another hopeless christian trying to squeeze God into the picture and validate it with really obviously bad logic! Someone with lots of knowledge of brains and computers needs to come and refute more stuff in a better way than I could, I don't know enough about computers to refute stuff in a more than common-sense type way ...




Am I dead? Am I alive? I'm both!

[neilep]

Erin, nicely done.

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[neilep]

I've glanced through the website again, wonderful fiction, just like the bible !

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[Ylide]

I didn't even bother to read the article to know that it was most likely hogwash.  Physicists don't understand the brain any more than a biologist knows what a tau lepton is.  Erin, you pretty much summed up everything I knew he was going to say and did a great job in calling his BS.  



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[Quantumcat]

Exactly cannabinoid, "physicists don't understand the brain anymore than a biologist knows what a tau lepton is" that's what I was trying to say, but didn't really know how to put it. Physics rules base chemistry rules which base biology rules, so you have to do a bit more thinking before you correspond physics rules to the brain ... but they do correspond.

Am I dead? Am I alive? I'm both!

[neilep]

Just look under your shoe for irrefutable proof of existence of the sole *smirk*

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[MissMontana]

quote:Originally posted by neilep@dsl.pipex.com

Just look under your shoe for irrefutable proof of existence of the sole *smirk*

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

I'm not sure that what is on the bottom of my shoe is irrefutable proof of existence of the sole

[neilep]

....ooooooops...did you step into something icky and squidgy ? *chuckle*

'Men are the same as women...just inside out !'

[ebzZzZ]

just a quick note, just because someone can't spell
PROPER english does not mean they are thick. Aspergers
syndrome sufferers have difficulty with spelling and
language, like newton and einstein have been linked
with. our language is a system passed down from monkeys,
we think in patterns not words the sooner our education
system realises this the better.

ebz