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  4. Origin of magnetic force
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Origin of magnetic force

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #60 on: 04/07/2022 15:20:57 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 04/07/2022 15:09:05
Try asking some meaningful questions
Why?
It's not as if you answer them when others ask..
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/07/2022 06:57:48
What's the evidence for the pulse? What's the frequency and duty cycle?
Quote from: Origin on 03/07/2022 21:08:34
What paradox?
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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #61 on: 04/07/2022 23:30:28 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/07/2022 06:57:48
Quote from: Spring Theory on 03/07/2022 13:30:01
All charged particles have a magnetic moment due to its "intrinsic" spin.

An intrinsic spin requires an intrinsic axis and hence a source for an instrisic pulse.
But the charge is not because of the rotation.
What's the evidence for the pulse? What's the frequency and duty cycle?

Defining the source of the pulse - the dipole is appropriate.  The dipole is formed when a photon circles in on itself in a double orbit. The electric charge points of the photon wave overlap.  The magnetic fields also overlap. In the case of the electron, the negative charge points radially outward and positive charge points inward.  With a photon pair or two dipoles, you have a shielded positive charge and only the negative charge presented:


The frequency for the dipoles in the free electron is about 2.3229884563E+24 cycles per second. Not sure what you mean by duty cycle.

The best evidence for a pulse would be the fine structure constant.  If the electron was "still", the charge force at the dipole would be 137ish times it's observed average charge,  This is why the fine structure is the electron coupling constant for interactions with photons.

When an electron absorbs a photon, it locks on to the electron dipole in alignment with the photon's electric fields. The photon essentially wraps around the electron in theory. The quantum nature of the photon "selected" for absorption is determined by how many wraps around the electron the photon can make geometrically and have its own dipole created.  You would have 4 wraps for the first photon, 9 wraps for the next one and 16 for the next one, etc. It follows the n^2 energy levels similar to Bohr's model.
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Offline Origin

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #62 on: 05/07/2022 03:43:33 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 04/07/2022 23:30:28
Defining the source of the pulse - the dipole is appropriate.  The dipole is formed when a photon circles in on itself in a double orbit. The electric charge points of the photon wave overlap.
I see you are doubling down on your word salad approach.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #63 on: 05/07/2022 05:01:56 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 04/07/2022 23:30:28
Not sure what you mean by duty cycle.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #64 on: 05/07/2022 05:24:57 »
Before we offer new hypotheses to explain observations, let's learn how previous scientists developed classical model of electromagnetism which eventually led to Maxwell's equations. We can also learn the difficulties they faced, which modern students may often overlook or take for granted.
 
Ohm's Law: History and Biography

Biography of Coulomb and his Equation
« Last Edit: 05/07/2022 06:20:55 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #65 on: 05/07/2022 10:30:32 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/07/2022 05:24:57
Before we offer new hypotheses to explain observations, let's learn how previous scientists developed classical model of electromagnetism which eventually led to Maxwell's equations. We can also learn the difficulties they faced, which modern students may often overlook or take for granted.
 
Ohm's Law: History and Biography


Biography of Coulomb and his Equation

Two interesting tales.
They both show the importance of experiment and evidence.
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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #66 on: 05/07/2022 12:24:06 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/07/2022 05:01:56
Quote from: Spring Theory on 04/07/2022 23:30:28
Not sure what you mean by duty cycle.


0.7297352562787%
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #67 on: 05/07/2022 12:34:33 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 05/07/2022 12:24:06
0.7297352562787%
Where does it come from?
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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #68 on: 05/07/2022 12:53:12 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/07/2022 12:34:33
Quote from: Spring Theory on 05/07/2022 12:24:06
0.7297352562787%
Where does it come from?

The fine structure constant.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #69 on: 05/07/2022 14:24:13 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 03/07/2022 13:30:01
All charged particles have a magnetic moment due to its "intrinsic" spin.
Only those with unpaired spins. An alpha particle has charge -2e but no magnetic moment. A uranium nucleus may or may not have a magnetic moment, depending not on its charge (which is always -92e) but on how many uncharged neutrons it contains.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #70 on: 05/07/2022 16:11:30 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 04/07/2022 23:30:28
Defining the source of the pulse - the dipole is appropriate.  The dipole is formed when a photon circles in on itself in a double orbit. The electric charge points of the photon wave overlap.  The magnetic fields also overlap. In the case of the electron, the negative charge points radially outward and positive charge points inward.  With a photon pair or two dipoles, you have a shielded positive charge and only the negative charge presented:
What are the advantages that your model can offer compared to currently existing models? Do they produce different experimental predictions?
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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #71 on: 06/07/2022 13:47:09 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 05/07/2022 14:24:13
Quote from: Spring Theory on 03/07/2022 13:30:01
All charged particles have a magnetic moment due to its "intrinsic" spin.
Only those with unpaired spins. An alpha particle has charge -2e but no magnetic moment. A uranium nucleus may or may not have a magnetic moment, depending not on its charge (which is always -92e) but on how many uncharged neutrons it contains.

I was mainly focused on what are typically considered fundamental particles.
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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #72 on: 06/07/2022 13:57:04 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/07/2022 16:11:30
Quote from: Spring Theory on 04/07/2022 23:30:28
Defining the source of the pulse - the dipole is appropriate.  The dipole is formed when a photon circles in on itself in a double orbit. The electric charge points of the photon wave overlap.  The magnetic fields also overlap. In the case of the electron, the negative charge points radially outward and positive charge points inward.  With a photon pair or two dipoles, you have a shielded positive charge and only the negative charge presented:
What are the advantages that your model can offer compared to currently existing models? Do they produce different experimental predictions?

It actually matches current experimental results. It also offers an explanation of the Stern Gerlach experiment and superpositions of states.

One testable prediction will be that a particle that decays into (2) photons will have the trajectories of those photons in opposite directions but with an offset on the order of the particle’s diameter and proportional to the wavelength (λ) of the photons emitted:

6aa6b2c85b7003d7dc81c342b6137aa9.gif

Picture (2) ball like photons in orbit held together by a piece of string between the photons.  If the string is cut (particle decays), then the photons will fly off in opposite directions along lines that are tangent to the orbit diameter.  The path is parallel but it is not collinear

« Last Edit: 06/07/2022 14:03:11 by Spring Theory »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #73 on: 07/07/2022 12:19:40 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 06/07/2022 13:57:04
It actually matches current experimental results. It also offers an explanation of the Stern Gerlach experiment and superpositions of states.
How does your model explain electrostatic/Coulomb's force between two point particles? 
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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #74 on: 07/07/2022 13:29:43 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 07/07/2022 12:19:40
Quote from: Spring Theory on 06/07/2022 13:57:04
It actually matches current experimental results. It also offers an explanation of the Stern Gerlach experiment and superpositions of states.
How does your model explain electrostatic/Coulomb's force between two point particles? 

My model has no point particles, there are only ring shaped particles.

A deterministic description of Coulomb's electric force can be modeled in the form of momentum. Since the outer side dipoles are either a localized compression of space for positive charge and a localized decompression for negative charge, it can be modeled as pulses of momentum.  The point of the dipoles can be thought of as radius velocities.  These radius velocities multiplied by the mass pulse are the charge momentum. This is the mechanism behind the Coulomb forces.

A negative charge decompression pulses a negative mass while a positive charge pulses a positive mass.  This could also be thought of in terms of curvature.  Positive charge pulses a convex curvature of space while a negative charge pulses a concave curvature of space. When a convex curvature meets a concave curvature from opposite directions, the curvatures add together to create an effective attractive force. This is the mechanism behind a positive charge attracting a negative charge. When two concave curvatures, such as two negative charge pulses, meet from opposite directions, the curvature interferes to create a repulsive effect.  This is the reason like charges repel each other. It's like the momentum pulses bounce off of each other like billiard balls.



* Electron repulsion.png (290.15 kB, 2120x1170 - viewed 3755 times.)
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Offline Origin

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #75 on: 07/07/2022 13:46:11 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 06/07/2022 13:57:04
One testable prediction will be that a particle that decays into (2) photons
What particle decays into 2 photons?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #76 on: 08/07/2022 02:29:44 »


What happens if one of the electrons is moving? How do the electrons know the position of the other electrons to direct the concave curvature of space?
What's the picture for attractive force between a positive charge and a negative charge?
« Last Edit: 08/07/2022 02:58:26 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline Spring Theory

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #77 on: 08/07/2022 20:05:39 »
Quote from: Origin on 07/07/2022 13:46:11
Quote from: Spring Theory on 06/07/2022 13:57:04
One testable prediction will be that a particle that decays into (2) photons
What particle decays into 2 photons?

Pions
Eta mesons
Positronium

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Offline Origin

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #78 on: 08/07/2022 20:20:47 »
Quote from: Spring Theory on 08/07/2022 20:05:39
Pions
Eta mesons
Positronium
Thanks.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #79 on: 09/07/2022 03:30:11 »
Here's an experiment to reveal the origin of magnetic force by showing different predictions between classical theory based on em field and relativistic theory based on length contraction which causes change in charge density, and the force can then be treated as electrostatic interaction.

Let a 12 Volt battery on the left of the page. A copper wire is connecting the negative terminal of the battery to a 12 ohm incandescent light bulb 10 meters away on the right side of the page. The electric circuit is completed by double wires, each is identical to previous wire, connecting the light bulb to the positive terminal of the battery. Those wires are wrapped in a conduit.

The resistance of the wires are negligible compared to the light bulb. Hence the current is around 1 Ampere.

The electrons move to the right through single wire, and move to the right through double wire. Since the current is the same, average velocity of the electrons through single wire must be twice as the electrons through double wire.

In classical explanation, the magnetic field  from single wire cancels out since the wires connected to positive terminal has the same magnitude but opposite current from the wire connected to negative terminal.
« Last Edit: 09/07/2022 08:49:20 by hamdani yusuf »
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