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  4. Origin of magnetic force
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Origin of magnetic force

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #480 on: 03/04/2025 11:30:19 »
Quote
........The proof was achieved by using radial or circular concentric slits instead of a solid copper disc. The eddy currents are prevented from spreading through these slits; thus the associated magnetic field can no longer attain the strength of a solid disc. Consequently, the magnetic needle remains almost at rest.

Thus proving that it is not an electrostatic effect. Very clever!
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #481 on: 04/04/2025 02:37:02 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 03/04/2025 11:30:19
Quote
........The proof was achieved by using radial or circular concentric slits instead of a solid copper disc. The eddy currents are prevented from spreading through these slits; thus the associated magnetic field can no longer attain the strength of a solid disc. Consequently, the magnetic needle remains almost at rest.

Thus proving that it is not an electrostatic effect. Very clever!
It proves that radial current in the spinning disc is needed to produce measurable force to the magnet. The disc is electrically neutral.

While in the video by physics ninja, the magnetic field is produced by purely tangential current of electric charges moving around the axis. But to do this, the disc must be electrically charged.
« Last Edit: 04/04/2025 02:39:19 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #482 on: 04/04/2025 15:17:21 »
radial current = flow of charge.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #483 on: 06/04/2025 17:09:04 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 04/04/2025 15:17:21
radial current = flow of charge.
What's tangential current?
Why it doesn't produce magnetic force in the experiment?
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #484 on: 16/04/2025 07:43:24 »
I asked Grok.
Is there an experiment video demonstrating the generation of magnetic field by spinning an electrically charged disk?
After searching 15 web pages, here's its answer.
Quote
I couldn't find a specific experiment video that directly demonstrates the generation of a magnetic field by spinning an electrically charged disk, based on available information and the provided search results. However, I can explain why such a video might be rare, describe the theoretical basis for the experiment, and point you toward related resources or experiments that come close. I'll also address the context of your previous questions about planetary precession and angular momentum to ensure the response is cohesive.

.....

Why Specific Videos Are Hard to Find
Experimental Challenges:
Small Magnetic Field: Even with a highly charged disk (e.g., 20 pF at 10 kV, yielding 2 μC) spinning at 100 Hz, the resulting current is small (~0.2 mA), producing a weak magnetic field that requires sensitive detectors.

Charge Retention: Maintaining a stable charge on a rapidly spinning disk is difficult due to leakage or discharge, especially in air. Vacuum setups or specialized materials are needed.

Practicality: The experiment is less common in educational settings because simpler demonstrations (e.g., current-carrying wires or solenoids) illustrate the same principles more effectively.

Historical Context:
The concept was experimentally verified by Henry Rowland in 1878, who measured the magnetic field of a rotating charged disk to confirm that moving charges produce magnetic fields. This experiment is rarely replicated today due to its complexity and the reliability of electromagnetic theory.

Modern experiments focus on more practical or advanced applications, like dynamos or magnetic resonance, rather than revisiting this fundamental demonstration.

Search Limitations:
The search results provided don't include a direct video of this experiment. While there are references to related experiments (e.g., Faraday's disk, dynamo experiments, or rotating charged rings), none specifically match the charged disk setup.

Online platforms like YouTube may have relevant content, but no specific video was identified in the results or general web knowledge up to April 16, 2025.



The same question was asked to Meta AI, and this is its answer.
Quote
I couldn't find any videos showing an experiment with a spinning electrically charged disk generating a magnetic field. Would you like to try searching with different keywords or phrasing? I'm here to help you find the content you're looking for!

It seems like an opportunity for us to fill the research gap by recording our own experimental video.
« Last Edit: 16/04/2025 07:50:56 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #485 on: 16/04/2025 10:11:19 »
Quote
Experimental Challenges:
Small Magnetic Field: Even with a highly charged disk (e.g., 20 pF at 10 kV, yielding 2 μC) spinning at 100 Hz, the resulting current is small (~0.2 mA), producing a weak magnetic field that requires sensitive detectors.

Says it all. There is a huge difference between electrostatics and electrodynamics experiments, but you are welcome to try.

Quote
The concept was experimentally verified by Henry Rowland in 1878, who measured the magnetic field of a rotating charged disk to confirm that moving charges produce magnetic fields. This experiment is rarely replicated today due to its complexity and the reliability of electromagnetic theory.

https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/152092/25215455-MIT.pdf?sequence=1 is an account of a "recent" (1970) Rowland Disc experiment, but you may find a better illustration in an old physics textbook. I'm intrigued and would like to find
Rowland's apparatus or a copy - there must be one in a museum somewhere!
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #486 on: 24/04/2025 14:59:00 »
I asked ChatGPT, How sensitive is magnetic field sensor in typical smartphone?
Quote
The magnetic field sensor (magnetometer) in a typical smartphone is quite sensitive for consumer applications, though not as precise as scientific instruments. Here's a breakdown:

Typical Sensitivity and Specs:

Resolution: ~0.1 to 1 microtesla (?T)

Full-scale range: Usually around ?50 to ?1000 ?T

Earth?s magnetic field: ~25 to 65 ?T depending on location, so smartphone sensors are designed to easily detect that range.


Key Points:

They can detect changes in magnetic fields from small magnets, metal objects, and even nearby wires with current.

They're not sensitive enough to detect extremely weak magnetic fields, like brain waves or the magnetic field from a single wire unless it's carrying significant current.

Interference from nearby electronics or magnets can affect accuracy.

Modern magnetometers are typically 3-axis (detect X, Y, Z directions).


Use cases in phones:

Compass functionality

Metal detectors (some apps use it)

Magnetic anomaly detection

Orientation and navigation support


If you're thinking of detecting something specific (like an electron beam?s field, or hidden wiring, etc.), I can help estimate whether a phone magnetometer would be sufficient. Want to test a specific field strength or setup?


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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #487 on: 24/04/2025 23:09:56 »
Anyone else would have checked the published specification of a phone.

Quote
Interference from nearby electronics or magnets can affect accuracy.

and spot bullshit. What, pray, is a "significant" current?


Quote
If you're thinking of detecting something specific (like an electron beam?s field, or hidden wiring, etc.), I can help estimate whether a phone magnetometer would be sufficient. Want to test a specific field strength or setup?

in other words, if you tell ChatGPT the answer, it will tell you the answer. The ultimate management consultant!
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #488 on: 01/05/2025 22:59:04 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 24/04/2025 23:09:56
Anyone else would have checked the published specification of a phone.

Quote
Interference from nearby electronics or magnets can affect accuracy.

and spot bullshit. What, pray, is a "significant" current?


Quote
If you're thinking of detecting something specific (like an electron beam?s field, or hidden wiring, etc.), I can help estimate whether a phone magnetometer would be sufficient. Want to test a specific field strength or setup?

in other words, if you tell ChatGPT the answer, it will tell you the answer. The ultimate management consultant!

The current in earth outer core which produces geodynamo effect.
Also, electrical currents in the ionosphere and magnetosphere.
Some electronics like welding machine, EV charger, and battery for rooftop solar cells use significant electric current which produce measurable magnetic field.

ChatGPT doesn't always agree with what you tell it.
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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #489 on: 02/05/2025 22:09:50 »
The nerve currents in the brain produce measurable magnetic fields. They are very significant, but you won't detect them with a phone.
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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #490 on: 12/05/2025 12:58:37 »
Quote
In this video I show you how the field shifts when magnets are rotated with a colour gradient magnetic viewing film.

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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #491 on: 12/05/2025 13:00:56 »
Quote
This is the second video where I show you how the field shifts when magnets are rotated with a colour gradient magnetic viewing film.
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Re: Origin of magnetic force
« Reply #492 on: 31/08/2025 07:32:34 »
The Force That Physics Erased: Amp?re?s Forgotten Law
Quote

We?re all taught that moving charges create magnetic fields.
But 200 years ago, Andr?-Marie Amp?re discovered something deeper: a direct force law between currents ? one that explained both attraction and repulsion without invoking fields at all.

James Clerk Maxwell called it ?one of the most brilliant achievements in science.?
And yet, within a few decades, it was forgotten ? replaced by the field-based picture of Faraday, Grassmann, Neumann, Lorentz, and finally Maxwell?s own equations.

So what exactly did Amp?re see in his experiments?
Why did physics turn its back on it?
And what would it mean if he ? and later defenders like Wilhelm Weber, Andr? Assis, and Peter & Neal Graneau ? were right?
I think the experiment to measure magnetic force between a pair of parallel solenoids can be done easily. Let's find out.
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