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  4. To clear ''your'' past and future confusion.
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To clear ''your'' past and future confusion.

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guest39538

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Re: To clear ''your'' past and future confusion.
« Reply #20 on: 13/10/2016 02:13:42 »
Quote from: GoC on 12/10/2016 21:52:35
   Mass has momentum while light does not. So we cannot use a bullet to describe light. A photon is a wave of energy not a particle of mass.

ok we will avoid the bullets although bullets were going to show the relevance of trajectory.   

Tell me Goc , when you look into the night sky and observe distant stars and planets, do you personally think that you see them in existing position or past position?



If the later, how do you explain the direct relevance of trajectory  of photons from the sun to the earth, surely the trajectory path which is linear is off target by time the light arrives at earth? ( the earth has moved 8 minutes),

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Offline GoC

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Re: To clear ''your'' past and future confusion.
« Reply #21 on: 13/10/2016 17:46:21 »
   We view stars and galaxies in there past positions.  We view trees in their past positions but light is so fast it is indistinguishable. Remember we measure by light. A measurement cannot be accurate if you measure with the thing you are measuring.

   On to the relevance of trajectory. Photons are not part of mass in relativity. Virtual photons are hf as a sphere moving away from the sun. With the earth and sun moving, perpendicular vectors are not possible to view with light being independent of the source (postulate of relativity). So the vector of light hitting the earth from the sun leaves the sun in a forward vector to meet the position the earth will be in to receive the light from the sun. In the eight minutes and 20 seconds the light takes to reach the earth the sun has physically moved forward from its position when the light first left the sun. So we can never view an object where it physically occupies space and all objects are moving through space.
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guest39538

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Re: To clear ''your'' past and future confusion.
« Reply #22 on: 18/10/2016 05:31:28 »
Quote from: GoC on 13/10/2016 17:46:21
   We view stars and galaxies in there past positions.  We view trees in their past positions but light is so fast it is indistinguishable. Remember we measure by light. A measurement cannot be accurate if you measure with the thing you are measuring.

   On to the relevance of trajectory. Photons are not part of mass in relativity. Virtual photons are hf as a sphere moving away from the sun. With the earth and sun moving, perpendicular vectors are not possible to view with light being independent of the source (postulate of relativity). So the vector of light hitting the earth from the sun leaves the sun in a forward vector to meet the position the earth will be in to receive the light from the sun. In the eight minutes and 20 seconds the light takes to reach the earth the sun has physically moved forward from its position when the light first left the sun. So we can never view an object where it physically occupies space and all objects are moving through space.


Why do you keep returning to the dogma and ignoring anything I mention?

Let us return to the tube between the earth and the sun, do you believe that the sun end of the tube is in the past? When quite clearly the tube was extended from the present on earth, yet you are suggesting the sun end of the tube has time travelled into the past and no longer in your present because of the time it takes light to travel  back to your eyes from the sun end of the tube.  When in observation we would observe the entirety of the tube at the same time in one 3d picture reference frame in our brain.


I will give you this in thought -

hold out your arms , left to the left and right to the right.


imagine at your left hand is the earth end of the tube, imagine at the right hand is the sun end of the tube, you will now see you in the present with the tube and either end of the tube is in your time.








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Offline GoC

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Re: To clear ''your'' past and future confusion.
« Reply #23 on: 18/10/2016 05:53:50 »
thebox,

  How would you describe color to a color blind person?
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guest39538

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Re: To clear ''your'' past and future confusion.
« Reply #24 on: 18/10/2016 08:10:00 »
Quote from: GoC on 18/10/2016 05:53:50
thebox,

  How would you describe color to a color blind person?

I would first mention the difference of shapes ,  then I would go on to discuss brightness levels and the difference in levels. I would then explain to them that what they see black and white, is not necessarily black or white, other people see it to be colours and different like the shapes.  I would then go on to explain how light works showing them the different wave lengths and explain they are colour blind.
Explain that we see differently and see colour.
But to describe colour itself, would be rather difficult, I would have to compare it some way to being different than just black or white.
Tough question I will sleep on it. ...
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Offline GoC

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Re: To clear ''your'' past and future confusion.
« Reply #25 on: 18/10/2016 13:06:44 »
[quote/]I would first mention the difference of shapes ,[\quote]

All mass objects are in a different place than viewed. With speed we only view their past position.

[quote/][ then I would go on to discuss brightness levels and the difference in levels][\quote]

Since we only view an object from a past position the angle of view creates a contracted view. This in no way affects the physical size.

[quote/][ I would then explain to them that what they see black and white, is not necessarily black or white, other people see it to be colours and different like the shapes. ][\quote]

What we view is not necessarily where it exists. Other people see it through relativistic eye's and know the physical position is different from the physical view. No star is where we view it in the universe.

[quote/][I would then go on to explain how light works showing them the different wave lengths and explain they are colour blind. ][\quote]

A light image moves at the speed of light to reach your eyes. Your eyes do not go to the image at infinite speed. You are relativisticly blind.

[quote/][But to describe colour itself, would be rather difficult, I would have to compare it some way to being different than just black or white][\quote]

Light is like sound going through air at 760 miles per hour. When you hear the sound of an airplane you first look behind the actual position of the plane. The sound and the physical position seem to be disjointed. Understanding the nature of light is what relativity is about.
« Last Edit: 18/10/2016 13:12:21 by GoC »
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guest39538

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Re: To clear ''your'' past and future confusion.
« Reply #26 on: 20/10/2016 07:12:57 »
Quote from: GoC on 18/10/2016 13:06:44
[quote/]I would first mention the difference of shapes ,[\quote]

All mass objects are in a different place than viewed. With speed we only view their past position.

[quote/][ then I would go on to discuss brightness levels and the difference in levels][\quote]

Since we only view an object from a past position the angle of view creates a contracted view. This in no way affects the physical size.

[quote/][ I would then explain to them that what they see black and white, is not necessarily black or white, other people see it to be colours and different like the shapes. ][\quote]

What we view is not necessarily where it exists. Other people see it through relativistic eye's and know the physical position is different from the physical view. No star is where we view it in the universe.

[quote/][I would then go on to explain how light works showing them the different wave lengths and explain they are colour blind. ][\quote]

A light image moves at the speed of light to reach your eyes. Your eyes do not go to the image at infinite speed. You are relativisticly blind.

[quote/][But to describe colour itself, would be rather difficult, I would have to compare it some way to being different than just black or white][\quote]

Light is like sound going through air at 760 miles per hour. When you hear the sound of an airplane you first look behind the actual position of the plane. The sound and the physical position seem to be disjointed. Understanding the nature of light is what relativity is about.

remove the /  from the open quote, / only goes in end quote.

And of course you completely ignore the direct, very clear line of sight in your reply.  ignoring the clarity of space itself will always return an incorrect answer or thought.  WE can not ignore the very fact that space is see through and we can measure and observe objects in their exact geometrical position.  It is very factual that we can observe the start of lights journey from A to B and the end of lights journey from A to B simultaneously in one reference frame of a visual picture in the brain.  Because of this very fact WE must consider the infinite speed of sight and that the Universe is all at present, the now. How can it be possible to observe an object in it's past geometrical position when it is factual we see the object at the same time we can see ourselves?

Also you ignore the third observers ''clock'' , timing your events from A to B , observing you and the light from A to B.

Here you go , do all the time comparisons, stop thinking in 1d and 2d. - The diagram shows all observers observe each other at the same time.
No past or future exits , only the now exists and memories of past.













* now.jpg (42.56 kB, 721x527 - viewed 298 times.)
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Offline GoC

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Re: To clear ''your'' past and future confusion.
« Reply #27 on: 20/10/2016 14:47:36 »
Quote
No past or future exits , only the now exists and memories of past.

I agree.



Quote
And of course you completely ignore the direct, very clear line of sight in your reply.  ignoring the clarity of space itself will always return an incorrect answer or thought.

Clarity of space as you say allows the image to travel through space like air allows the sound wave Aether allows light waves.


Quote
  It is very factual that we can observe the start of lights journey from A to B and the end of lights journey from A to B simultaneously in one reference frame of a visual picture in the brain.  Because of this very fact WE must consider the infinite speed of sight and that the Universe is all at present, the now. How can it be possible to observe an object in it's past geometrical position when it is factual we see the object at the same time we can see ourselves?
 

You are trying to mix facts with your subjective opinion. If light were infinite speed and someone was standing in front of a building the image of the person the building could not be distinguishable. If all images reached you at the same time you would be object blind.


Quote
Also you ignore the third observers ''clock'' , timing your events from A to B , observing you and the light from A to B.

Here you go , do all the time comparisons, stop thinking in 1d and 2d. - The diagram shows all observers observe each other at the same time. 

yes the image reaches you at your present. From their past because of the finite speed of light. The image observed present has moved from the viewed position when it reaches the observer. You are the one thinking in 3d when reality is 4d. The fourth dimension is c the very cause of motion itself and its view. c allows motion and carries the image of macro mass in our fractal environment. If you were the size of an electron you could not see walls as a density barrier. That's not even considering light would not be able to carry images to you because the proportional wave length would be to large.

Thanks for the quote instruction
« Last Edit: 20/10/2016 14:55:17 by GoC »
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