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In general relativity we can actually detect the effects of gravity on time. The Lorentz factor leads to the conclusion of length contraction. However, unlike time dilation, this is only a mathematical convenience. You cannot actually detect a change from any point of observation. This takes away the issue of length contraction during rotation. Where the radius would have to contract in order for the spinning object to not disintegrate.

Quote from: jeffreyH on 23/09/2016 17:17:23In general relativity we can actually detect the effects of gravity on time. The Lorentz factor leads to the conclusion of length contraction. However, unlike time dilation, this is only a mathematical convenience. You cannot actually detect a change from any point of observation. This takes away the issue of length contraction during rotation. Where the radius would have to contract in order for the spinning object to not disintegrate. In reality we can actually detect the effects of gravity on the rate of the Caesium atom which we use to measure time. Of course objects do not contract in length although spin can make an object contract at its ,,poles,,

Quote from: Thebox on 23/09/2016 22:24:42Quote from: jeffreyH on 23/09/2016 17:17:23In general relativity we can actually detect the effects of gravity on time. The Lorentz factor leads to the conclusion of length contraction. However, unlike time dilation, this is only a mathematical convenience. You cannot actually detect a change from any point of observation. This takes away the issue of length contraction during rotation. Where the radius would have to contract in order for the spinning object to not disintegrate. In reality we can actually detect the effects of gravity on the rate of the Caesium atom which we use to measure time. Of course objects do not contract in length although spin can make an object contract at its ,,poles,,Those are very pertinent observations.Say Fred plans his journey to star x. He knows it is l lightyears away and calculates that with enough fuel he can reach it in n years at velocity v. He knows nothing of relativity. When he actually undertakes the journey he finds that he reaches star x in 1/2n years. So now he concludes that his distance measurements must have been in error and the star was only 1/2l light years away. He has experienced length contraction without being able to detect it. Due to time dilation. In which case time dilation must relate to the amount of inertia in the moving mass.

The box You are not understanding the deeper meaning of time as it relates to SR. JefferyH on the other hand is confusing length contraction with time dilation. In SR your synapsis slow with all biological processes in the body. The electron makes its cycle but has to also add the distance through space into its cycle. So your clock slows. Your also a biological clock so you age slower.Length contraction is only a visual phenomenon and not physical. It is the competition between the speed of light and the speed of an object. At relativistic speeds light cannot reflect off the entire length of an object. This is due to the finite speed of light. Many believe it to be physical but they do not understand relativity correctly. They only understand relativity math without the physical reason. Rotation is due to light being independent of the source. Those who consider light in an inertial frame as being perpendicular are not following relativity but there own version of relativity. You need to consider a sphere of light when created and you approach a vector from the past position from where light came. That angle causes the contraction viewed. Geometry will follow the Lorentz contraction when using light independent of the source. Those that just follow math without understanding the math come to a different conclusion.JefferyH has the better idea on relativistic affects and deeper understanding.

You need to think in terms of mass flow dm/dt in relation to the gamma function. This falls in line with both the increase in relativistic mass and dilation of time with no resort to a physical change in length. I could go through a full proof but I have other issues to contend with at the moment.

To get the subtleties of the subject it would be useful to read up on the lifetimes of muons and how time dilation affects them....sorry, you cannot view external links. To see them, please REGISTER or LOGINDoes the sky contract to accommodate the muons or do they simply travel further?

the box, You are new to the rabbit hole.jeffreyH,You have the advantage of knowing what to expect when you go from room to room in the rabbit hole using math.There is mechanics behind the math that is elusive and most are satisfied by knowing what to expect in each room.When you try to go past the math we are in a subjective nightmare and are told to stop because it is unfathomable. I would disagree. Why do we view the cat larger in one room and why do we only see the Cheshire's teeth in another? We have to build the mechanics to reproduce the entire rabbit hole and not just one room. The current subjective understanding is not coherent to form the mechanics.

My concept says something else. Particles get elongated along the motion line, in the absolute space. The experiment that confirms that is the slowing down of light when using OAM. Light that has l > 0 can be thought as a new particle. If you accelerate it, l number reduces. If l = 0 , the speed reaches c. However, electrons have a secondary helix and thus the wavefronts can have more values for speed. Think of it as an OAM wave that instead of travelling straight, if follows a loop or a helix. Anyway, the same principle applies, that is, trajectory pattern dictates the speed of the particle.

NilakHow do you get around the fact that all frames measure the same speed of light. Especially since relativity follows geometry vector motion using c as a constant. If c was variable geometry would fail observation.

If you are in a box while travelling at v, the box extends by Lorentz factor (x'=x*gamma).

When you measure c using a mirror, you always get c. However the speed difference is c-v while the light ray travells towards the mirror and c+v after it gets reflected back.

The angle of the mirror with the vector speed is 90 degrees in the simplest case