[thedoc (OP)]

Lee Wardell asked the Naked Scientists:
   
Hi naked scientist, love your program. I listen every week, I study philosophy as a hobby & have written an argument which I would like you to check if it is valid.

The argument is in syllogism form & is intended to challenge the claim that some people are certain they have observed an apparition of some kind including ghosts, spirits, demons, souls, angels & voices of the dead etc etc. I have named the argument 'Casper's Refutation' (Don't laugh!).

The argument is as follows;

X = The Mind
Y = Reality
Z = Something that is observed in reality but does not exist in reality and is not produced by the mind.

No human has a complete understanding of how 'X' works.

No human has a complete understanding of what 'Y' is.

Humans need to have a complete understanding of how 'X' works and what 'Y' is before they can define what 'Z' is.

No human can claim to be certain of observing a 'Z'.

So my question is; Is the argument valid or is it meaningless, or is it as John Cleese would say "Stating the bleeding obvious".

Thank you.
What do you think?

[alancalverd]

If Z doesn't exist in reality it can't be observed in reality

[Tinker-Bell]

X = The Mind
Y = Reality
Z = Something that is observed in reality but does not exist in reality and is not produced by the mind.

No human has a complete understanding of how 'X' works.

No human has a complete understanding of what 'Y' is.

Humans need to have a complete understanding of how 'X' works and what 'Y' is before they can define what 'Z' is.

No human can claim to be certain of observing a 'Z'.

What do you think?

Einstein answered your question best:

“Any [person] who reads too much and uses [their] own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.” - Albert Einstein

Since I understand ALL that YOU say NO human can understand, plus, I'm in possession of quite a few Ghosts, like the Ghosted Russian Imperial FAMILY, the Ghosts of Congress, the Ghost of Kinsale, Ireland, and OTHERS, besides also being a Ghost myself personally and in MANY different ways, so I guess I'm not human then? 

Does that make me God? 

“If you can easily see the PERSONAL flaws in others, drink more Vodka and their flaws will disappear; if not, change Vodka's and try-try-try again-and-again until success is had. The trick is to NEVER-EVER give-up trying to become better than you were or can be!” - Dick Van Dyke (aka: Martini Proverb)

Ribbit 

Ps: Maybe I should have called myself Casper instead of Tinker-Bell, since I'm ALSO Casper, besides also being the Easter Bunny as well. Whereas Tink plays into me being a Tinker, as well as me being turned into Peter Pan by the Children's Home (Orphanage) I ended-up at when I was 4 AND the bassackwards nature of this Calculus perverted world. 

[tkadm30]

If Z doesn't exist in reality it can't be observed in reality

I disagree. You can observe mentally anything you can think of. Observation is not just a physical process but also a mental activity.

[Tinker-Bell]

If Z doesn't exist in reality it can't be observed in reality

I disagree. You can observe mentally anything you can think of. Observation is not just a physical process but also a mental activity.

"The MINIMUM it takes for ANYTHING to EXIST is for you to SIMPLY think it, therefore, be extremely careful what you think and say." (Open System Law of Existence) - Old Toad Proverb

"Say as little as you have to until you have to and when you do have to speak, be meticulous with your choice of werds and how you say them." - Zeroth Rule of Law/Life

Ribbit 

[snorkfort]

Philosophical argument not required. Superstitious and supernatural nonsense can be dismissed out of hand simply by recognising that the people who believe in these things have lower intelligence and lower analytical thinking (critical thinking) ability than those who don't.

Reference 1: The relation between intelligence and religiosity: a meta-analysis
(google it)

Reference 2: Paranormal psychic believers and skeptics: a large-scale test of the cognitive differences hypothesis
 (google it)

Conclusion: we don't need to waste any more time and resources studying or discussing what stupid people believe.

[tkadm30]

Superstitious and supernatural nonsense

It's called parapsychology. (google it)

[snorkfort]

Superstitious and supernatural nonsense

It's called parapsychology. (google it)

No, parapsychology is the pseudoscientific STUDY of superstitious and supernatural nonsense.
(google it, or check dictionary)

[tkadm30]

No, parapsychology is the pseudoscientific STUDY of superstitious and supernatural nonsense.
(google it, or check dictionary)

Yeah right. Pretending extrasensory perceptions (ESP), near-death experiences (NDE) and experimental parapsychology are nonsense is a evidence that you're either uneducated or disinformed. I suggest you quit the offending rants on people intelligence who study in this domain. 

[snorkfort]

No, parapsychology is the pseudoscientific STUDY of superstitious and supernatural nonsense.
(google it, or check dictionary)

Yeah right. Pretending extrasensory perceptions (ESP), near-death experiences (NDE) and experimental parapsychology are nonsense is a evidence that you're either uneducated or disinformed. I suggest you quit the offending rants on people intelligence who study in this domain.

The references I posted provide data about the intelligence/analytical abilities of the people who BELIEVE these things, not the people who study these things.

[Brad Watson]

Z = Something that is observed in reality but does not exist in reality and is not produced by the mind...
What do you think?

You've got a BIG contradiction there, therefore, no logic can come from it.