The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. Non Life Sciences
  3. Technology
  4. how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed

  • 8 Replies
  • 3976 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline syhprum (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 5198
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 74 times
how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed
« on: 03/01/2017 01:25:28 »
leap seconds cause confusion , could all the windmills be run in reverse to get the rotation speed correct ?
Logged
 



Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 21163
  • Activity:
    64%
  • Thanked: 60 times
  • Life is too short for instant coffee
Re: how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed
« Reply #1 on: 03/01/2017 08:20:28 »
"Correct" is undefined.

The earth's rotation speed is not constant or easily predictable as it is influenced by every other celestial body, continental drift, volcanoes, shellfish....But it is useful to adjust our clocks occasionally so that the stars (particularly the sun) appear at the same time on a given date.
Logged
Helping stem the tide of ignorance
 

Offline evan_au

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11035
  • Activity:
    9%
  • Thanked: 1486 times
Re: how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed
« Reply #2 on: 03/01/2017 10:21:31 »
Quote from: syhprum
how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed?
The definition of the second is based on the year 1900. Effectively, you want to:
1)  speed up the Earth's rotation so that it spins as rapidly as it did in the year 1900.
2) And, once it is spinning that fast, you want to fire rockets or similar, to keep it going at that rate.

Q1: Speed up the Earth's rotation
We would need to speed up the Earth by about 1ms per day.
I'll leave calculation of the energy required as an exercise for the student [;)]

Q2: Keep it spinning
It is estimated that the Earth loses 3.7 TeraWatts to tidal friction.
Effectively, you would need to make up for that loss.
The world's electricity production in 2008 averaged 2 TW, so we are not too far away from 3.7 TW.
However, rockets are horribly inefficient (< 0.01% of the thrust makes it outside the atmosphere), so I can't see any known technology that would allow us to apply this power to overcoming tidal friction.

Quote
could all the windmills be run in reverse to get the rotation speed correct ?
Stirring the atmosphere (or even the ocean) does not overcome the energy lost to tidal friction in the oceans.
Logged
 

Offline syhprum (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 5198
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 74 times
Re: how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed
« Reply #3 on: 03/01/2017 23:00:36 »
My back of a fag package calculation works out at 430 TW for a year rather a strain on our generating capacity

even_au I think the definition of the second has been updated now to an atomic standard 
« Last Edit: 03/01/2017 23:05:16 by syhprum »
Logged
 

Offline evan_au

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11035
  • Activity:
    9%
  • Thanked: 1486 times
Re: how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed
« Reply #4 on: 04/01/2017 08:37:42 »
Quote from: Syphrum
I think the definition of the second has been updated now to an atomic standard 
That's true...

I guess I was trying to say that when they changed over to an atomic clock definition of the second, they tried to make the new definition as close as possible to the old definition - and the old definition for the second was based on the length of the average day in the year 1900.
Logged
 



Offline syhprum (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 5198
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 74 times
Re: how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed
« Reply #5 on: 04/01/2017 08:48:56 »
I was pleased to see that my calculation of 430 TW for a year was close to the figure of 3.7 TW for 116 years that you posted, I guess we will have to put up with our leap seconds until our nuclear fusion reactors get going.
Logged
 

Offline evan_au

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • ********
  • 11035
  • Activity:
    9%
  • Thanked: 1486 times
Re: how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed
« Reply #6 on: 04/01/2017 09:35:03 »
Quote
rockets are horribly inefficient (< 0.01% of the thrust makes it outside the atmosphere)
The rocket must be firmly attached to the Earth, otherwise the rocket will accelerate, but not the Earth's rotation. So I am imagining a big tower (150km high), with rockets at the top.
It's not enough to just fire rockets into space - you have to ensure that the rocket exhaust leaves Earth's gravity well. Otherwise, the rocket exhaust will return to crash back into the Earth's atmosphere, neatly cancelling any angular momentum gained by firing the rocket in the first place. So you need a rocket with an exhaust velocity greater than Earth's escape velocity of around 11 km/second.
That means an incredibly hot chemical rocket, or more likely an ion rocket or magnetic fusion jet.
I suggest that we take the technology to build a 150km-high tower, and use it to build a space elevator. That way, we can get off Earth at a much lower cost.

And if we are off the Earth, leap seconds will be the least of your concerns - a day on Mars is 24 hours and 40 minutes. Don't worry about a spare millisecond per day...

Its just as well that our smartphones can take leap seconds into account!
Logged
 

Offline syhprum (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 5198
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 74 times
Re: how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed
« Reply #7 on: 05/01/2017 12:49:29 »
Experiments have been done confining people in an artificial environment where they had a 25 hour day and they soon adapted so its one thing you will not have to worry about when you join the Mars colony
Logged
 

Offline Atomic-S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 981
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 19 times
Re: how much energy would take speed the Earths rotation that no leap seconds needed
« Reply #8 on: 21/01/2017 05:29:16 »
The Earth's rotation is affected not only by the drag of the tides, but also by the distribution of the Earth's mass. The more mass moves to the equator, the greater the moment of inertia, and the slower it spins. So, to speed it up, move mass from the equator to the poles.
Logged
 
 



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.65 seconds with 51 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.