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  4. Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
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Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?

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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #780 on: 26/05/2017 18:34:14 »
timey;
Quote
General relativity derives non-Euclidean geometry from changes in motion...
Special relativity derives Euclidean geometry from changes in length/distance...

I have to disagree with the cause and effect order in SR.
SR environment is the 'principle of relativity' restricted to a Euclidean geometry, with constant uniform motion, and a speed limit of c, Motion induced changes, td and lc, result from the propagation speed of light being constant and independent of its source, which is based on experiment.
 
Knowing only the basics of GR:
Einstein's motivation for the GR environment is expanding the principle of relativity, to  remove the status of the inertial frame as preferential. Accomplished by including non-Euclidean geometry, via the equivalence of inertial and gravitational mass, Changes in motion result from acceleration or gravity or both.

If he could not find justification for absolute properties, he replaced them with relative ones.

Need more time to respond to your other posts. And yes, I don't fully understand some of what you propose, but will continue on.
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #781 on: 27/05/2017 01:00:45 »
Recalling the very famous second postulate of Special Relativity declared by Einstein (1905):

“The velocity c of light in vacuum is the same in all inertial frames of reference in all directions and depend neither on the velocity of the source nor on the velocity of the observer”

(But by who's rate of time are we holding the speed of light relative to?)

Albert Einstein himself emphasized in his paper in 1917:

“The results of the special relativity hold only so long as we are able to disregard the influence of gravitational fields on the phenomena”

(This renders the theory of special relativity as background dependent, in that it requires that the gravitational field be ignored, i.e. it requires a fixed, non-dynamic Euclidean background.  So in a universe where gravity is mostly weak, physicists can feel justified in ignoring the gravity field.)

Einstein had developed another theory called General Relativity that deals with gravitational fields and according to this theory the velocity of light appears to vary with the intensity of the gravitational field.

(This is known as a background independent theory because there is nothing fixed within the mathematical framework.  But the framework does break down where gravity is extreme)

Special relativity holds the speed of light as constant held relative to a static length second.  The motion of the object, as a speed held relative to the same static length second, is a percentage of the speed of light as held relative to this static length second.  The percentage of the speed of light that the motion is determines the degree of time dilation and length contraction that is observed of the moving frame, observed of the moving frame because the moving frame itself notices nothing different about their own time or length.

So you can see that there is a special relativity situation where in order to describe a flat Euclidean space and keep the speed of light constant held relative to a static length second, length of object and distance traveled are rendered variable...
And you can see that there is a general relativity situation where the dynamics of the acceleration of gravity are interpreted as being a geometry that is non-Euclidean.  This being because if the speed of light was varying as per the speed of light being held relative to GR time dilation, then light and the motion of m in the gravity field would slow down on approaching M, and the motions of m are observed to accelerate towards M, not decelerate, therefore it is the geometry of space that is non=Euclidean.

You have said concerning GR:
Quote from: phyti on 26/05/2017 18:34:14
Accomplished by including non-Euclidean geometry, via the equivalence of inertial and gravitational mass, Changes in motion result from acceleration or gravity or both.
Acceleration and gravity are one and the same thing.

Special relativity is describing length contraction of the object in a flat Euclidean space.
General relativity is describing a non-Euclidean space of curves (waves and ripples) that an objects path through space must follow as spatial geometry.

What I am suggesting is that the non-Euclidean spatial geometry of general relativity is actually a temporal function due to a 3rd aspect of the time dilation phenomenon where m=0, and that this unifies changes in motion with acceleration/deceleration in the gravity field, where acceleration and gravity are already unified, giving acceleration/deceleration and the force of gravity a physical cause.
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #782 on: 27/05/2017 15:37:45 »
Quantum mechanics is compatible with special relativity, but it is not compatible with general relativity.  If it were compatible with general relativity then quantum would be unified with gravity.
Therefore because special relativity is a background dependent theory, so is quantum a background dependent theory.

To unify quantum with gravity surely special relativity just needs to be rendered as a background independent theory.

Special relativity can be rendered as a background independent theory, to be used in conjunction with my altered version of general relativity, if one holds the speed of light relative to the 3rd aspect time dilation for open space where m=0 that my model adds.  Simply plug in the value of M and understand that the gravitational red shift equation will be describing the value by which a light ray's wavelength is getting longer with distance from M, where the extra distance added to the wavelength with each gravitational shift can be divided by the speed of light (held relative to a static length second as per c)) for a time period that can then be progressively added to the length of the second one was holding the speed of light relative to.
This is just stating a mathematical means to say that the light 'always' travels 299 792 458 metre that are constant in length, in seconds that are becoming longer as the frequency of the light is shifted towards the red as it moves away from M.  This is the value of the 3rd aspect time dilation for open space where m=0...

Note: This is saying that if we hold the speed of light relative to the 3rd aspect time dilation seconds at higher potentials, that the light will always be travelling 299 792 458 metre per variant second of each potential, but when this is the case - if we hold the speed of light relative to a static length second as per c, 'less' distance will be traveled at each potential per static length second of c...
On the other hand, if we held the speed of light relative to the GR time dilated seconds at higher potentials, the light would always be 299 792 458 metre per variant second of each potential, but when this is the case - if we hold the speed of light relative to a static length second as per c, 'more' distance will be traveled at each potential per static length second of c.
...In either case, this being the case of stating time for space where m=0 to be running at faster rates in the higher potentials, or stating time for space where m=0 to be running slower in the higher potentials - if one were attempting to recover the speed of light from being a variable at each potential to being a constant at each potential as per the speed of light held relative to a static length second as per c at each potential, then jimmying around with lengths and distances will do the trick...
Now take heed - if one were to wrongly assume that time runs faster in space where m=0 based on the fact that time runs faster for clocks that are not m=0, when in reality time in space where m=0 actually runs slower, this would complicate matters somewhat with regards to jimmying around with lengths and distances.

Quote
General Relativity deals with gravitational fields and according to this theory the velocity of light appears to vary with the intensity of the gravitational field.
What is this saying?  Is it saying that the speed of light is being held relative to seconds being shorter in space?  If seconds are shorter in space then light will be moving faster further away from M, and slower closer to M.  Bodies of m in relation to M would slow down as they are accelerated towards M and speed up as they are decelerated away from M.  But acceleration is gravity, and gravity warps space, therefore we end up with non-Euclidean geometry.
The speed of light, as a constant held relative to the static length second as per c, is recovered via special relativity where again length and distance are compromised but this time as a means of achieving a Euclidean geometry.

My model changes things a bit...

General relativity time dilation is now for mass 'in' that potential, and 3rd aspect time dilation is for space 'at' that potential. General relativity mathematics are already inclusive of the concept of this 3rd aspect time dilation.  This being because changes in motion, i.e. acceleration/deceleration in the gravity field are the same thing as gravity, and I am stating the 3rd aspect of time dilation as being the cause of the acceleration/deceleration, meaning that the 3rd aspect time dilation and acceleration/deceleration are the same thing.  This negates the need to add non-Euclidean geometry because the cause of these curves, waves and ripples are 3rd aspect time dilation related.  This will describe space curvature.

To make special relativity a background independent theory, simply hold the speed of the craft as a percentage of the speed of light held relative to the 3rd aspect time dilation second at each potential. (this gets soooo interesting, I'm literally dying to talk to someone in these terms)
To make quantum a background independent theory, simply recognize Planck's h constant as a function of time dilation.

Is there anybody out there who can converse on these matters?

I'd continue into describing how the 5th force of the Kazula-Klien theory (that Einstein was initially excited about) can be equated with what I'm suggesting, where the theory's failure to the purpose of unification was brought about by a background dependency due to the non-dynamic nature of the addition, where my addition is actually dynamic.
« Last Edit: 27/05/2017 15:46:05 by timey »
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #783 on: 27/05/2017 18:11:36 »
timey;
#767
Quote
So my question is - when the tests of GR set out in the 'tests of general relativity' link provided above are calculated, are the deviations from Euclidean geometry being calculated as spatial additions to the geometric distance between objects?

Spatial measurements in GR use 'curvilinear coordinates' developed from the study of surfaces by Gauss. The surface, Einsteins mollusc, is not a Euclidean environment unless you focus on a tiny portion, just as an area of 100 square meters on earth's  surface may be considered flat.

#774
Quote
But light rays are moving at a constant speed, aren't they?  So how is the geometry of spacetime distinguishing the constant speed of light?

Quote
That's light in free fall, considered equivalent to inertial motion and a straight line in Euclidean space.. In freefall you do not sense any acceleration.

...where I'll add that deceleration is no different to being at rest but with a gravitational field turned on
at rest in a g-field, the object is accelerating, (the field vectors all point to the center of mass), i.e. gravity is always ON, but an object, ground, floor, shelf, etc. is preventing its motion. You measure this acceleration with a weight scale!

Quote
The light rays being bent towards a star are being bent because time in the 'space' near the star is running faster than the time in the 'space' between the background object emitting the light rays and the star that these light rays are being bent towards

The rays are free falling in the g-field of the star. Time is not bending the rays, gravity is. Time does not cause anything. Viewing a distant clock rate, it will be different from your local clock, just as it is in SR.

There are em fields, also invisible, yet they predict em phenomena with a high degree of accuracy. If you accept these as causes, then why not accept g-fields.
The over simplistic inverse square rule for gravity leads to incomprehensible results at a distance of zero. Referring to the 'shell theorem', the rule outside the mass does not apply inside the mass. You don't need relativity to conclude that gravitation is zero at the center of mass. Considering a composition of  bodies, such as a galaxy, is inside the universe, maybe it's time to rethink the rule. (a rule is a guess, the law remains  unknown)
----------------------------------------
The reason we have theories, is because we can't know the nature/essence of the physical world. Models are built from mental images which we suppose correspond to reality outside the mind. It's a trial and error process.
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #784 on: 27/05/2017 23:03:43 »
Quote from: phyti on 27/05/2017 18:11:36
Time is not bending the rays, gravity is

Sure - but what is gravity?

You cannot answer this because no-where in conventional physics does it tell one what gravity is...

My model says that gravity is a combination of electromagnetic (the value of which is dependent on the energy related frequency of a particle) that causes a directional attraction, and the 3rd aspect of time dilation in the gravity field (this being dependent on the vacuum energy of space, the value of which is linked to the strength of the gravitational field. i.e. more energy in the stronger field, less energy in the weaker field) that is responsible for causing acceleration/deceleration.

I repeat again... that if a body is in motion in a field that has progressively changing rates of time, that bodies motion will be accelerated where seconds become shorter, and decelerated where seconds become longer.  This is synonymous to a Doppler shift, except the Doppler shift is a time shift, not a distance shift...
This can give an exact description of gravitationally shifted light, and the analysis of the redshift spectrum.

The best you are going to get from conventional physics as an explanation for the phenomenon of gravity, is that gravity and acceleration are the same thing and that gravity warps the geometry of space.
The physics books that I read are saying that a deeper understanding is required.
You would be 'comfortable' talking to me about places where there are copies of ourselves living out the probabilities of other worlds.  You would be comfortable talking to me in terms of other dimensions with regards to string theory.  You would feel comfortable talking to me in terms of the framework of GR or SR time dilation.  All of these subjects you can find raised within the physics literature.  Talking about a 3rd dimension of the time dilation phenomenon is a subject that I am raising as a 'New Theory'.  In light of the other theories that I have mentioned, I don't think that my idea is that outlandish tbh...
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #785 on: 29/05/2017 12:59:22 »
String theory arose in the attempt to unify the forces.  It has sought to unify general relativity with quantum, but also runs into the problems of back ground dependency.  Some versions are partially reminiscent of the Kuluzar-Klien theory in the use of a higher dimensional general relativity, but again there is failure due to the non-dynamic nature of background dependency.  Many string theorists believe that the fact of the many versions of string theory that have emerged are pointing to the existence of a deeper more fundamental theory that has even been given a name, M-theory, despite the details of this theory remaining a mystery.

My alterations to general relativity (which can be considered as a higher dimensional general relativity) gives a background independent theory that retains the dynamic nature of space as a 3rd aspect time dilation phenomenon, resulting in a spatial geometry that under all circumstance emerges as Euclidean... All I am doing here is saying that particle frequency is time dilation related, and that the phenomenon of time itself is energy related.
I suspect that string theory might benefit immensely from employing my remit of +energy=shorter seconds to it's notion of string 'vibrations', where the result (I think, scratches head) would be a reduction in the necessity for extra dimensions, and a unification of 'some' of the differing string theories.
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #786 on: 30/05/2017 15:42:50 »
Ok - well it would seem no-one at this forum is willing to converse at the level of theoretical physics, so I shall continue with Lee Smolin.

"The Trouble with Physics" chapter 13: Surprises from the Real World - pages 204 ,205, 207 & 208.
Quote
:Lee Smolin
Let us start with the cosmological constant, thought to represent the dark energy accelerating the universe's expansion.  As discussed in chapter 10, this energy was not anticipated by string theory, nor by most theories, and we have no idea what sets its value.  Many people have thought hard about this for years, and we are more or less nowhere.  I don't have an answer either, but I have a proposal for how we might find one.  Let's stop trying to account for the cosmological constant's value in terms of known physics.  If there is no way to account for the phenomenon on the basis of what we know, then maybe this is a sign that we need to look for something new.  Perhaps the cosmological constant is a symptom of something else, in which case it might have other manifestations.  How are we to look for them, or recognize them?

The answer will be simple. because universal phenomenon are ultimately simple.  Forces in physics are characterized by just a few numbers - for example, the distance over which a force travels and a charge to tell us how strong it is.  What characterizes the cosmological constant is a scale, which is the distance scale over which it curves the universe.  We can call this scale R.  It is about 10 billion light years, or 10power27 centimeters.  What is weird about the cosmological constant is that its scale is huge compared with other scales in physics.  Scale R is 10power40 times the size of an atomic nucleus and 10power60 times the Planck scale (which is about 10power-27 times the size of a proton).  So it's logical to wonder whether scale R might reflect some totally new physics.  A good approach would be to look for phenomenon that happen on the same vast scale.

Does anything else happen on the the scale of the cosmological constant?  Let's start with cosmology itself.  The most precise cosmological observations we have are the measurements of the 'cosmic microwave background'.  This is the radiation left over from the Big Bang, which comes to us from all directions of the sky.  The radiation is purely thermal - that is, random.  It has been cooling as the universe expands, and it is now at the temperature of 2.7 degrees Kelvin.  The temperature is uniform across the sky to a high degree of precision, but at the level of a few parts in 100 000 there are fluctuations in it.  The patterns in these fluctuations gives us important clues to the physics of the early universe.

Over the last decades, the temperature fluctuations of the microwave background have been mapped by satellites, balloon-borne detectors, and ground based detectors.  One way to understand what these experiments measure is to think of the fluctuations as if they were sound waves in the early universe.  It is then useful to ask how loud the fluctuations are at different wavelengths.  The results give us a picture, which tells us how much energy there is at various wavelengths.

The picture is dominated by a large peak, followed by several smaller peaks.  The discovery of these peaks is one of the triumphs of contemporary science.  They are interpreted by cosmologists to indicate that matter filling the early universe was resonant, much like the head of a drum of the body of a flute.  The wavelength at which a musical instrument vibrates is proportional to its size, and the same is true of the universe.  The wavelengths of the resonant modes tell us how big the universe was when it first became transparent: that is, when the initial hot plasma developed, or 'de-coupled'. into separate realms of matter and energy some three hundred thousand years after the Big Bang, at which time the microwave background became visible.  These observations are extremely helpful in tying down the parameters of our cosmological models.

Another feature we see in the data is that there is very little energy in the largest wavelength.  This may be just a statistical fluctuation, because it involves a small number of pieces of data.  But if it is not a statistical fluke, it can be interpreted as indicating a cut-off, above which the modes are much less excited.  It is interesting that this cutoff is at the scale of R, associated with the cosmological constant.

The existence of such a cutoff would be puzzling from the point of view of the most widely accepted theory of the very early universe, which is 'inflation'.  According to the theory of inflation, the universe expanded exponentially fast during one extremely early period.  Inflation accounts for the observation that the cosmic background radiation is so nearly uniform.  It does this by ensuring that all parts of the universe we see now could have been in causal contact when the universe was still a plasma..

The theory also predicts the fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background, which are hypothesized to be remnants of quantum effects during the period of inflation.  The uncertainty principle implies that the fields dominating the energy of the universe during inflation fluctuate, and these fluctuations become imprinted on the geometry of space.  As the universe expand exponentially, they persist, causing fluctuations in the temperature of the radiation produced when the universe becomes transparent.

Inflation is believed to have produced a huge region of the universe with relatively uniform properties.  This region of the universe is thought to be many orders of magnitude larger than the observable region, because of a simple argument about scales.  If inflation had stopped just at the point where it created a region as large as we now observe, there must have been some parameter in the physics of inflation that selected a special time to stop, which just happens to be our era.  But this seems improbable, because inflation took place when the universe had a temperature ten to twenty orders of magnitude greater than the center of the hottest star today; thus the laws governing it must have been different laws, which dominate physics only in those extreme conditions.  There are many hypotheses about the laws that govern inflation, and none of them say anything about a time scale of 10 billion years.  Another way to put this is that there seems no way for the present value of the cosmological constant to have anything to do with the physics that caused inflation.

Thus if inflation produced a uniform universe on the scale that we observe, it likely produced a universe that is uniform on much larger scales.  This in turn implies that the pattern of fluctuations produced by inflation should go on and on, no matter how far you look.  If you could see beyond the present size of the observable universe, you should continue to see small fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background.  Instead, the data hint that the fluctuations may cease above the scale of R.

Indeed, as cosmologists have examined the large-scale modes in the microwave background, they have found more mysteries.  It's an item of faith among cosmologists that at the largest scales the universe should be symmetric - that is, any one direction should be like any other.  This is not what is seen.  The radiation in these large-scale modes is not symmetric; there is a preferred direction. (It has been called "axis of evil" by the cosmologists Kate Land and Joao Magueijo).  No one has any rational explanation for this effect.

These observations are controversial because they disagree profoundly with what we would expect on the basis of inflation.  Since inflation explains so much of cosmology, many prudent scientists suspect that there is something wrong with the microwave data.  Indeed , it is always possible that the measurements are just wrong.  A lot of delicate analysis is applied to the data before they're presented.  One thing that's done is to subtract the radiation known to come from the galaxy that we live in.  This may have been done incorrectly, but few experts familiar with the details of how the data are analyzed believe that to be the case.  Another possibility, as noted, is that our observations are just statistical anomalies.  An oscillation at a wavelength of the scale R takes up a huge part of the sky - about 60 degrees; consequently we see only a few wavelengths, and there are only a few pieces of data, so what we are seeing may just be a random statistical fluctuation.  The chances of the evidence for a preferred direction being a statistical anomaly have been estimated at less than 1 part in 1000.  But is may be easier to believe in this unlikely bad luck than to believe that the predictions of inflation are breaking down.

These issues are currently unresolved.  For the time being, it is enough to say that we went looking for strange physics on the scale of R and found it.

My contracting cyclic model gives physical cause and effect mechanics for it's Big Bangs and Inflation periods, and this data of a preferred direction will correspond to those mechanics.
Given that anyone can understand that a 'contracting' universe will eventually result in all the mass of the universe being in the same location, i.e. a super-massive black hole, and that a super-massive back hole with no counterpart gravitational force acting upon it will explode it's plasma in an outward trajectory in an inflation like manner, I will continue onto the next few pages of Lee Smolin's book concerning the R scale with respect MOND.
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #787 on: 30/05/2017 16:56:42 »
timey;

#779

Quote
The physics books do not give any description as to 'how' a clock changes it's rate (as per GR) in the differing potentials of space, they only describe that a clock's rate of time will change.

From "The Meaning of Relativity", Albert Einstein,5 th edition, paraphrasing:
'the g-field imparts/transfers energy to the test mass moving through it, but without detailed explanation due to lack of understanding, and a similar state for em fields for composite structures. The energy of the mass and its g-field and em field are included in the energy tensor '

Quote
Clearly, from the nature of the question, you are assuming that the rate of time for a clock in the differing potentials of space is changing because the rate of time in the differing potentials of space changes.

I'm concluding a clock in a g-field runs slower due to stress. If F=gm, then a mechanical clock requires more energy for the moving parts. A light clock at the surface, or any fixed postion, loses energy moving upward and gains energy downward, but the loss is greater than the gain, similar to the SR scenario of the round trip reflection in the direction of motion.

Quote
the clock "in' the gravity potential is ticking at a rate that is independent and differing from the rate of time in the space of that position of gravity potential,
but its rate is determined by its position

As I see it, as m enters the g-field of M, it accelerates toward the center of mass M on a free fall path, its clock process slowing (longer seconds), which is opposite of your description.

#781
Quote
(But by who's rate of time are we holding the speed of light relative to?)
SR  1st postulate: physical processes behave in the same manner in all inertial frames. The propagation of light is such a process, therefore the measured speed of light is the same in all inertial frames.

Quote
(This renders the theory of special relativity as background dependent, in that it requires that the gravitational field be ignored, i.e. it requires a fixed, non-dynamic Euclidean background.  So in a universe where gravity is mostly weak, physicists can feel justified in ignoring the gravity field.)

It is relativity restricted to a Euclidean geometry but still vary much dynamic.

Quote
Einstein had developed another theory called General Relativity that deals with gravitational fields and according to this theory the velocity of light appears to vary with the intensity of the gravitational field.

It's an extension of the relativity principle to include gravitation and arbitrarily chosen frames of reference/coordinate systems, thus eliminating any preferred frames.

Quote
SR time dilation can be described as losing, or gaining potential energy due to motion relative to the gravitational field.

SR time dilation works without g-fields!

#784
Quote
I repeat again... that if a body is in motion in a field that has progressively changing rates of time, that bodies motion will be accelerated where seconds become shorter,

Consider the spherical surface of the earth radiating gravitational elements (gravel)  per square meter, which form a field extending outward without limit. As m enters the field on a straight line course that passes earth, its altitude above the surface decreases, with an increase in frequency of gravel encounters (greater density/sq meter). The field strength is accelerating m, and a clock with m would run slower (at a lower potential in GR terms)
I can equate your 'changing rates of time' to 'changing field strength.'

Time dilation results from light chasing a moving target, in constant or changing speeds.

I  think the 'many worlds' theory is nonsense. It's the meteorologist who compensates for his ineptitude by predicting all forms of weather probabilities, thinking one of them will be correct.

Ed Smolin;
"We are not accustomed to thinking of space as an entity with properties of it's own, but it certainly is".
If you can discover how a structured space, any type field, stores energy, and the process of releasing it to an object passing through it, you will answer many questions.
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #788 on: 30/05/2017 19:08:34 »
Quote from: phyti on 30/05/2017 16:56:42
I can equate your 'changing rates of time' to 'changing field strength.'

Good!  Because changes in field strength can be equated with changes in energy, and changes in energy can be equated with changes in the rate of time.  +energy=shorter seconds being the crux of my theory.

The observation of GR time dilation is inclusive of changes in frequency, and changes in frequency are proportional to changes in energy.  You cannot get a change in frequency without a change in energy.
Clocks at greater elevation, according to the framework of GR, have a higher frequency, and therefore must have a higher energy.
Clocks in relative motion will have a decreased frequency compared to a stationary clock, and therefore must have a lesser energy.

Quote from: phyti on 30/05/2017 16:56:42
SR time dilation works without g-fields!

Erm, nope it doesn't.  SR time dilation can only work in a g-field and has only been observed in a g-field.  There is no place in the universe that does not have a g-filed.  It is SR mathematics that ignore the g-field, but add the non-Euclidean geometry via length contraction.  If you fly hypothetical rockets around at differing speeds and trajectories with the intention that they meet at arbitrary locations, you cannot get the rockets to time mesh at the meeting points.   
What you can say is that where motion is being imparted to an object by the gravitational field, that SR mathematics adds non-Euclidean geometry via length contraction, but this completely ignores GR time dilation effects, and constitutes a really weird upside down attempt to reconcile SR Euclidean geometry with GR non- Euclidean geometry.

My model is better!  SR mathematics can be reconciled with GR mathematics under my remit, where the GR non-Euclidean geometry of space is exchanged for a Euclidean geometry in space and acceleration/deceleration is then a 3rd aspect time dilation phenomenon.  There is then no need to use the length contraction mathematics of SR because we are not expecting SR to describe any actual spatial changes of geometry, be that the geometry of space, or the geometry of the moving body.  We are stating that length contraction is merely a result of measuring a frame that is ticking at one rate of time, from a frame where the clock is ticking at a differing rate, via a speed of light that is being held relative to the tick rate of the frame that is doing the measuring.

Quote from: phyti on 30/05/2017 16:56:42
Time dilation results from light chasing a moving target, in constant or changing speeds.

That is a really odd way of looking at things... Not one I've heard before.  Why would light chasing a target cause time dilation?

Quote from: phyti on 30/05/2017 16:56:42
Quote
Lee Smolin
"We are not accustomed to thinking of space as an entity with properties of it's own, but it certainly is".
If you can discover how a structured space, any type field, stores energy, and the process of releasing it to an object passing through it, you will answer many questions.

I am saying that the structure of space is Euclidean, that the field is a field of time dilation, and that energy is the same thing as time.  This will indeed answer a lot of questions, as applying this remit to physics results in my model of a fully described contracting cyclic universe.  A model that provides a do-able experiment to prove or disprove itself.
Many highly intelligent people have worked on string theory for 40 years without being able to provide a do-able experiment to prove or disprove string theory...

As to the rest of your post - I'm not sure if you are trying to educate me on that which conventional physics states, or if this is your interpretation of how gravity works.
In the first instance, there is no need.  I am aware of what conventional physics states, and the fact is that conventional physics states that it does not know what gravity is, other than gravity being the same thing as acceleration, and that acceleration causes a dynamic non-Euclidean geometry of space.
In the second instance, well fair enough, but I am talking about my model of a contracting cyclic universe, and in my model, gravity, acceleration, energy and time are all the same thing, causing a dynamical background independent temporal structure of space within a Euclidean geometry of spatial dimensions.
« Last Edit: 30/05/2017 19:11:25 by timey »
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #789 on: 01/06/2017 17:03:04 »
timey;
Theories require accepting some parts on faith, without proof. The field is one of those. Newtonian gravity produced measured results that agreed with prediction, thus was acceptable. Today, still with no understanding of a field, except it's association with mass, Relativity is successful. This shows we don't need a complete understanding of all elements of a theory.
Based on this latest post, I would question your current understanding of conventional physics. This has been a long bus ride, and this is where I get off.
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #790 on: 01/06/2017 21:50:11 »
Quote from: phyti on 01/06/2017 17:03:04
I would question your current understanding of conventional physics.

So it would seem... but it would appear to be you that does not understand that if GR describes a non-Euclidean geometry of space, but SR can ignore the effects of gravity (perhaps you do not understand that there is nowhere in the real world universe that does not have a gravitational field), but calculate a trajectory as a Euclidean geometry of space correctly as per experiment in the real world, that the means by which SR changes length/distance must correspond with the way that GR describes a non-Euclidean geometry.

Quote from: phyti on 01/06/2017 17:03:04
Relativity is successful. This shows we don't need a complete understanding of all elements of a theory.

This is a point of view that is not shared by the physicists who's books I read, and who's lectures I watch, nor shared by the experimentalists who conduct physics experiments. That you say this leads me to question your understanding of theoretical physics.  The entire point of experiments such as LHC, LIGO, etc, too many to mention, are to answer the questions that Relativity and Quantum Mechanics do not answer, which again are too numerous to mention, but the fact that GR and QM are incompatible is the usual starting point, whether you are a string theorist, or working on any other type of unification theory.

If you cannot discuss GR and SR as per why one results in a non-Euclidean geometry, and why the other is reliant on a Euclidean geometry, in terms of the speed/distance/time formula, then you won't be able to converse in terms of the R scale with respect to MOND.  Or my plans to venture the conversation to discussing DSR, (Doubly Special Relativity).  I asked you what you would say if I thought I had a theory of everything that described a contracting cyclic universe.  You said that you would say show me the mathematics, or something thereof.  I can't show you the mathematics other than point you to Einstein's equations of GR that will describe a universe that is contracting and then describe how this changes current view.  It would seem to me that either you question my rights(?) to change current view, or simply don't understand current view as well as you think you do.  It hasn't been a long road.  You didn't get on the bus.
Not to worry though, I wish you well.  ...And if you do ever start to have questions about why it is that physics two best current working theories are not compatible with each other, and why physics cannot explain so much about our universe, then I highly recommend Lee Smolin's book "The Trouble With Physics".  He is very concise...
« Last Edit: 01/06/2017 21:53:39 by timey »
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #791 on: 03/06/2017 14:32:47 »
Actually I think I'll discuss DSR first...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubly_special_relativity

Lee Smolin describing how himself and Jaoa Magueijo came to DSR 2.

Quote
:Lee Smolin
But at some point during that afternoon, we hit on a key factor that had evaded us for months, having to do with trading momenta for positions.  When we were done, we had invented a second version of DSR, much simpler than the one developed by Giovanni Amelino-Camelia.  Now it is known to experts as DSR 2.
This was what Joao had wanted.  In our version, photons that have more energy travel faster.  Thus, in the very early universe when the temperature was very high, the speed of light was, on average, faster than it is now.  As you go back further in time and the temperature approaches the Planck energy, the speed of light becomes infinite.  It took somewhat longer to show that this led to a version of a variable-speed-of-light theory that was also consistent with the principles of general relativity, but we eventually got there, too.  We call this theory "Gravity's Rainbow" after Thomas Pynchon's novel.
"Doubly special relativity' is a stupid name, but it has stuck.  The idea is an elegant one, by now much studied and discussed.  We don't know if it describes nature, but we know enough about it to know that it could.

I mention DSR because it has similarities to my hypotheses.

Smolin says:
Quote
In our version, photons that have more energy travel faster.

In my model - photons that have more energy also travel faster, but they have more energy due to the strength of the gravitational field, and travel faster due to a 3rd aspect of the time dilation phenomenon where m=0, because time where m=0, i.e.the g-field, is running faster in a stronger gravitational field (lower potential), and is running slower in the weaker gravitational field, (higher potential)
This describes the accelerative/decelaritive phenomenon of the g-field where m=0. (and can describe a directional force via the electromagnetic, where the electromagnetic can be easily described in Euclidean spaces)

All I have done is render the spatial distances of non-Euclidean space given by general relativity as temporally derived by an added 3rd aspect to the time dilation phenomenon.  Now general relativity is a five dimensional dynamical back ground independent theory from which Euclidean geometry emerges.  Gravitational fields, waves and ripples are areas, or bands of energy that manifest themselves as rates of time that are running faster than the rate of time in the lesser energy of the space they are moving through.

Mass can be considered in the same way.
Where m doesn't equal 0 we see GR and SR time dilation that cause the frequency of the clock to change.
A higher potential (weaker gravity field) causes the GR time dilated clock to increase in frequency. (increased tick rate, faster rate of time)  An increase in frequency requires an increase in energy.
A lower potential (stronger gravity field) causes the GR time dilated clock to decrease in frequency (decreased tick rate, slower rate of time).  A decrease in frequency requires a decrease in energy.

My model states that the rate of time anywhere, for both mass and for where m=0, is energy related.  Where m=0 it is the vacuum energy of space, and the gravitational field strength that applies.  Where mass is concerned we look to the conservation of energy law that states that it is the sum of both gravity potential energy and kinetic energy that is conserved.  (relativistic mass is not necessary in my model, which I can expand upon) Thus stating that it is potential energy changes that are causing the increase or decrease in the frequency (tick rate) of the GR time dilated clock.  This with a bit more juggling can be applied to the clock in relative motion to the gravity field, where gp is converted to ke, and describes the decrease in frequency of the SR clock in relative motion.

Smolin says:
Quote
Thus, in the very early universe when the temperature was very high, the speed of light was, on average, faster than it is now.  As you go back further in time and the temperature approaches the Planck energy, the speed of light becomes infinite.

In the very early universe, light did not shine at-all.  The temperature caused a plasma that was opaque.  We are to assume of course that all the mass, and energy, that we see 'out there' was part of this plasma before it got 'out there' by means of an inflation period.
This is getting to the heart of the Big Bang considerations.  Current physics cannot take us to the causation of inflation, or to the physics of the big bang.

My model makes the argument that the universe is cyclic.  It also makes the argument that the universe is currently contracting, and has been very slowly contracting at an accelerating rate since the moment that the inflation period ceased.
My model looks at what happens when great quantities of mass conglomerate, and makes the argument that blackholes fit the description of plasma. Light does not shine.  The temperature is observed to decrease inversely proportional to increase in mass.  More gravitational field, less energy can escape, unless that field is disturbed either by another equivalent field (see binary black holes), or by the sudden lacking of another field. (see black hole mass intake and superluminal jets)
My model proposes that the universe has been contracting very slowly at an accelerating rate since the moment that the inflation period ceased.  That this contraction will eventually result in all the mass of the universe being located in one area, this being a super massive black hole.  This will have occurred as a result of blackholes merging with one and another.  When there is only one, an Inflation Period is caused by there be no other gravitational equivalent acting upon the singular black hole, and this singular black hole shall disperse all of the plasma via it's superluminal jets, leaving a sea of cooling particles swirling in close proximity to each other across a vast tract of space. (dynamical emergent space)
My model says that all clumping development is the causation of the very slow contraction of the spacial dimensions of the universe, and is the causation of the red shift observations, in that the gravity fields between masses are becoming weaker as mass further clumps, and that distances between masses are slowly increasing as these clumps of mass further clump.
This gives us a causal description for galaxy clusters.
This gives us a causal description of red shift observation.
This gives us a causal description for Big Bangs.
This gives us a causal description for Inflation period.
This gives us a causal description for the 'axis of evil' and the observations of a preferred direction.
(It does not give us a causal description of how cyclic universes are created, but the change in interpretation could give some clues as to that)

I'll get onto how the scale of R relates to the concept of dark energy, and how the scale of R relates to MOND, and to how MOND relates to dark matter, in my next post...
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #792 on: 04/06/2017 18:03:59 »
Lee Smolin then goes on to describe work that has been undertaken in the field of quantum gravity and quantum loop gravity, culminating in:

"The Trouble With Physics" chapter 15 : 'Physics after String Theory' - pages 255, 256, & 257
Quote
:Lee Smolin
While there is today an exciting sense of progress among quantum-gravity theorists, there is also a strong expectation that the road ahead will bring at least a few surprises.  Unlike string theorists in the exhilarating says of the two super-string revolutions, few of the people working on quantum-gravity believe they have their hands on a final theory.  We recognize that the accomplishments of background-independent approaches to quantum gravity are a necessary step to finishing Einstein's revolution.  They show that there can be a consistent mathematical and conceptual language that unifies quantum theory and general relativity.  This gives us something that string theory does not, which is a possible framework in which to formulate the theory that solves all five of the problems I listed in chapter 1.  But we are also fairly sure that we do not yet have all the pieces.  Even with the recent successes, no idea has that absolute ring of truth.

When you look back at the history of physics, one thing sticks out:  When the right theory is finally proposed, it triumphs quickly.  The few really good ideas about unification appear in a form that is compelling, simple, and unique; they do not come with a list of options or adjustable features.  Newtonian mechanics is defined by three simple laws, Newtonian gravity by a simple formula with one constant.  Special relativity was complete on arrival.  It may have taken twenty five years to fully formulate quantum mechanics, but from the beginning it was developed in concert with experiment.  Many of the key papers in the subject from 1900 on either explained a recent experimental result or made definite prediction for an experiment that was shortly done.  The same was true of general relativity.

Thus, all the theories that triumphed had consequences for experiment that were simple to work out and could be tested within a few years.  This does not mean that the theories could be solved exactly - most theories never are.  But it does mean that physical insight led immediately to a prediction of a new physical effect.

Whatever else one says about string theory, loop quantum gravity, and other approaches, they have not delivered on that front.  The standard excuse has been that experiments on this scale are impossible to perform - but, as we've seen, such is not the case.  So there must be another reason.  I believe that there is something basic that we are all missing, some wrong assumption we are all making.  If this is so, then we need to isolate the wrong assumption and replace it with the new idea.

What could that wrong assumption be?  My guess is that it involves two things: the foundations of quantum mechanics and the nature of time.  We have already discussed the first.  I find it hopeful that new ideas about quantum mechanics have been proposed recently, motivated by studies of quantum gravity.  But I strongly suspect that the key is time.  More and more, I have the feeling that quantum theory and general relativity are both deeply wrong about the nature of time.  It is not enough to combine them.  There is a deeper problem, perhaps going back to the origin of physics.

Around the beginning of the seventeenth century, Descartes and Galileo both made a wonderful discovery:  You could draw a graph, with one axis being in space and the other being in time.  A motion through space then becomes a curve on the graph.  In this way, time is represented as if it were another dimension of space.  Motion is frozen, and a whole history of constant motion and change is presented to us as something static and unchanging.  If I had to guess (and guessing is what I do for a living), this is the scene of the crime.

We have to find a way to unfreeze time - to represent time without turning it into space.  I have no idea how to do this.  I can't conceive of mathematics that doesn't represent a world as if it where frozen into eternity.  It's terribly hard to represent time, and that's why there is aa good chance that this representation is the missing piece.

I do have an idea as to how to represent time without turning it into space.  It involves a combination of the mathematics of general relativity and special relativity, a rethink on the spatial nature of the non-Euclidean geometry that is the result of general relativity as being temporally derived, leading to the addition of a 3rd aspect to the time dilation phenomenon for where m=0 in the gravity field, and a relationship between the phenomenon of time with energy.  Simpy hold special relativity speed percentages relative to the speed of light as per the 3rd aspect time dilation of the gravity field, where this time dilation is responsible for changes in acceleration, and you will be describing the passage through time without turning that time into space.
When one applies the +energy=shorter seconds remit to quantum mechanics, this places time dilation into the realm of quantum mechanics, and gives quantum mechanics a background independent 'temporal' geometry from which 3 dimensions of space emerge as per Euclidean geometry, that is compatible with the altered arrangement of general relativity, that results in a temporally dynamic background independent theory from which 3 dimensions of space emerge as per Euclidean geometry.
« Last Edit: 04/06/2017 18:09:19 by timey »
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #793 on: 10/06/2017 00:18:50 »
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Model_Suggests_Pre_Big_Bang_Physics.html

Quote
:link
By combining quantum physics with general relativity, however, Ashtekar and colleagues report they have been able to develop a model that describes a transition from a previous universe, through the Big Bang to an expanding universe that exhibits physics similar to the one that exists today.

Reporting in the current issue of Physical Review Letters, the team said their calculations reveal that prior to the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe with space-time geometry otherwise similar to the current expanding universe.

As gravitational forces pulled this previous universe inward, it reached a point at which the quantum properties of space-time cause gravity to become repulsive, rather than attractive.

Here Ashtekar and team are using a combination of quantum physics and general relativity to develop a model where the calculations reveal that prior to the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe with space-time geometry otherwise similar to the current expanding universe.

My cyclic model suggests that our universe is 'currently' contracting as per these mathematics of a contracting space-time geometry, which will be compatible with my model's +energy=shorter seconds remit.
My model then gives cause and effect mechanics for the Big Bang and an Inflation period.  Where the 'axis of evil' implications of preferred direction are described by these cause and effect mechanics, leaving a universe comprised of a vast sea of particles/energy that starts contracting from the point the Inflation period ceases.
This cyclic model that I have invented states that the development of what we observe of our universe today has occurred during the contraction, where the gravitational clumping of mass 'is' the contraction.
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #794 on: 14/06/2017 13:25:55 »
"QED" Richard P Feynman - chapter 2: Photons: Particles of Light - page 55 & 56
Quote
: Feynman
This is an example of the 'uncertainty principle': there is a kind of "complementary" between knowledge of where the light goes between the blocks and where it goes afterwards - precise knowledge of both is impossible.
I would like to put the uncertainty principle in its historical place: When the revolutionary ideas of quantum physics were first coming out, people still tried to understand them in terms of old-fashioned ideas (such as, light goes in straight lines).  But at a certain point the old-fashioned ideas would begin to fail, so a warning was developed that said, in effect, "Your old-fashioned ideas are no damn good when..."  If you get rid of all the old-fashioned ideas and instead use the ideas that I'm explaining in these lectures - adding arrows for all the ways an event can happen - there is no need for an uncertainty principle!

However - there is still no model that explains why these quantised effects occur.

It is my suggestion that 'discreteness' is a consequence of not accounting for time dilation, where events are not occurring in sinc with the experiments inherent time base structure.

My suggestion, as well as incorporating an added 3rd aspect of time dilation for where m=0, is that a +energy = shorter seconds approach can be employed.  This gives causality to the QED adding up of arrows model that Feynman describes, where the path of least time is the most probable route, and Planck's h constant and the Hamiltonian can be mathematically re-interpreted as a functions of time dilation, where a division of wave length/wavefunction by energy, (via frequency, in some cases) will be informative of the rate of time for the particle, system or geometrical space.
(I think this notion may be compatible with non-commutative geometry)
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #795 on: 15/06/2017 01:55:19 »
Quote from: timey on 16/02/2017 03:18:52
   
Then on the other hand - there is the school of thought that a person will age in keeping with their time dilated clock as described in the NIST link above, and the link below.
 

   
   
It would seem that a person will age in keeping with their clock. Right?

People age in time, obviously.
But is the passage of time the direct cause of aging?
How exactly the passing time causes aging of a person?
     
But first, let's define what we mean by: " aging person " .

Who/what is aging?  Person?  :)   

I would say that it is the body of the person that is aging. 

But how the body is aging? Body is made of atoms.
Are body's atoms aging? 

If atoms of the body are not aging with time, than how exactly the body is aging?
 
Well, in my humble opinion, there is an essential difference
between the animate and the in-animate matter.
 
Einstein's theory of relativity applies to the in-animate matter only.
   
In my opinion, we can say that under normal circumstances on Earth
there is some coherent correspondence between
clocks, time passing, and people aging. 
   
Clocks make sense only so far as they correspond to Earth's spin.

But if a person leaves Earth and travels in space,
the Cesium atoms of the quantum clock do not correspond
neither to Earth's spin, nor to Earth's gravity, so such "time"
from the point of view of a person aging becomes meaningless,
because there simply  isn't anymore any correspondence between
clocks, time passing, and people aging.   
 
A living person is not an atomic clock,
and body's atoms are not aging.
 
So, to make a long story short, Einstein's theory of relativity
does NOT apply to living beings (animate matter).   
   
ONE LAST THING :

A living person is not an atomic clock,
and a ticking clock is not an equivalent of time passing.
   
CLOCKS ARE NOT TIME. 

CLOCKS ARE NOT POWERED BY THE FLOW OF TIME
IN THE SAME WAY AS WATER WHEELS ARE POWERED
BY THE FLOW OF WATER.
 
SAME APPLIES TO CESIUM ATOMS. 
 
THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THE FREQUENCY OF A CESIUM ATOM HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH TIME PASSING -- IT IS MERELY AN AXIOMATIC ASSUMPTION.
     
WE CAN EXPERIMENTALLY DIRECTLY MEASURE THE FREQUENCY OF A CESIUM ATOM BY COMPERING IT WITH ANOTHER FREQUENCY, BUT WE CANNOT EXPERIMENTALLY DIRECTLY MEASURE THE FREQUENCY, OR "SPEED", OF TIME PASSING.

THERE ARE NO EXPERIMENTAL DETECTORS THAT CAN DIRECTLY DETECT THE PHYSICAL EXISTENCE OF TIME, NOT TO MENTION DETECTING THE "SPEED" OF TIME.  :)


 
FUNCTIONING OF CLOCKS AND CESIUM ATOMS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH TIME  :) 
« Last Edit: 15/06/2017 02:23:49 by Quantum Antigravity »
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #796 on: 15/06/2017 11:51:19 »
Red tower blocks in Bold!  Fancy!

Anyway - as I was saying...

Quote from: timey on 10/06/2017 00:18:50
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Model_Suggests_Pre_Big_Bang_Physics.html

Quote
:link
By combining quantum physics with general relativity, however, Ashtekar and colleagues report they have been able to develop a model that describes a transition from a previous universe, through the Big Bang to an expanding universe that exhibits physics similar to the one that exists today.

Reporting in the current issue of Physical Review Letters, the team said their calculations reveal that prior to the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe with space-time geometry otherwise similar to the current expanding universe.

As gravitational forces pulled this previous universe inward, it reached a point at which the quantum properties of space-time cause gravity to become repulsive, rather than attractive.

Here Ashtekar and team are using a combination of quantum physics and general relativity to develop a model where the calculations reveal that prior to the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe with space-time geometry otherwise similar to the current expanding universe.

Quote from: timey on 14/06/2017 13:25:55
"QED" Richard P Feynman - chapter 2: Photons: Particles of Light - page 55 & 56
Quote
: Feynman
This is an example of the 'uncertainty principle': there is a kind of "complementary" between knowledge of where the light goes between the blocks and where it goes afterwards - precise knowledge of both is impossible.
I would like to put the uncertainty principle in its historical place: When the revolutionary ideas of quantum physics were first coming out, people still tried to understand them in terms of old-fashioned ideas (such as, light goes in straight lines).  But at a certain point the old-fashioned ideas would begin to fail, so a warning was developed that said, in effect, "Your old-fashioned ideas are no damn good when..."  If you get rid of all the old-fashioned ideas and instead use the ideas that I'm explaining in these lectures - adding arrows for all the ways an event can happen - there is no need for an uncertainty principle!

(I think this notion may be compatible with non-commutative geometry)

Where my model states non-commutative/non-Euclidean geometry as a temporal phenomenon from which 3 dimensions of Euclidean 'space' geometry emerge.
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #797 on: 23/06/2017 13:47:44 »
Quote from: timey on 30/05/2017 15:42:50
"The Trouble with Physics" chapter 13: Surprises from the Real World - pages 204 ,205, 207 & 208.
Quote
:Lee Smolin
Let us start with the cosmological constant, thought to represent the dark energy accelerating the universe's expansion.  As discussed in chapter 10, this energy was not anticipated by string theory, nor by most theories, and we have no idea what sets its value.  Many people have thought hard about this for years, and we are more or less nowhere.  I don't have an answer either, but I have a proposal for how we might find one.  Let's stop trying to account for the cosmological constant's value in terms of known physics.  If there is no way to account for the phenomenon on the basis of what we know, then maybe this is a sign that we need to look for something new.  Perhaps the cosmological constant is a symptom of something else, in which case it might have other manifestations.  How are we to look for them, or recognize them?

The answer will be simple. because universal phenomenon are ultimately simple.  Forces in physics are characterized by just a few numbers - for example, the distance over which a force travels and a charge to tell us how strong it is.  What characterizes the cosmological constant is a scale, which is the distance scale over which it curves the universe.  We can call this scale R.  It is about 10 billion light years, or 10power27 centimeters.  What is weird about the cosmological constant is that its scale is huge compared with other scales in physics.  Scale R is 10power40 times the size of an atomic nucleus and 10power60 times the Planck scale (which is about 10power-27 times the size of a proton).  So it's logical to wonder whether scale R might reflect some totally new physics.  A good approach would be to look for phenomenon that happen on the same vast scale.

Does anything else happen on the the scale of the cosmological constant?  Let's start with cosmology itself.  The most precise cosmological observations we have are the measurements of the 'cosmic microwave background'.  This is the radiation left over from the Big Bang, which comes to us from all directions of the sky.  The radiation is purely thermal - that is, random.  It has been cooling as the universe expands, and it is now at the temperature of 2.7 degrees Kelvin.  The temperature is uniform across the sky to a high degree of precision, but at the level of a few parts in 100 000 there are fluctuations in it.  The patterns in these fluctuations gives us important clues to the physics of the early universe.

Over the last decades, the temperature fluctuations of the microwave background have been mapped by satellites, balloon-borne detectors, and ground based detectors.  One way to understand what these experiments measure is to think of the fluctuations as if they were sound waves in the early universe.  It is then useful to ask how loud the fluctuations are at different wavelengths.  The results give us a picture, which tells us how much energy there is at various wavelengths.

The picture is dominated by a large peak, followed by several smaller peaks.  The discovery of these peaks is one of the triumphs of contemporary science.  They are interpreted by cosmologists to indicate that matter filling the early universe was resonant, much like the head of a drum of the body of a flute.  The wavelength at which a musical instrument vibrates is proportional to its size, and the same is true of the universe.  The wavelengths of the resonant modes tell us how big the universe was when it first became transparent: that is, when the initial hot plasma developed, or 'de-coupled'. into separate realms of matter and energy some three hundred thousand years after the Big Bang, at which time the microwave background became visible.  These observations are extremely helpful in tying down the parameters of our cosmological models.

Another feature we see in the data is that there is very little energy in the largest wavelength.  This may be just a statistical fluctuation, because it involves a small number of pieces of data.  But if it is not a statistical fluke, it can be interpreted as indicating a cut-off, above which the modes are much less excited.  It is interesting that this cutoff is at the scale of R, associated with the cosmological constant.

The existence of such a cutoff would be puzzling from the point of view of the most widely accepted theory of the very early universe, which is 'inflation'.  According to the theory of inflation, the universe expanded exponentially fast during one extremely early period.  Inflation accounts for the observation that the cosmic background radiation is so nearly uniform.  It does this by ensuring that all parts of the universe we see now could have been in causal contact when the universe was still a plasma..

The theory also predicts the fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background, which are hypothesized to be remnants of quantum effects during the period of inflation.  The uncertainty principle implies that the fields dominating the energy of the universe during inflation fluctuate, and these fluctuations become imprinted on the geometry of space.  As the universe expand exponentially, they persist, causing fluctuations in the temperature of the radiation produced when the universe becomes transparent.

Inflation is believed to have produced a huge region of the universe with relatively uniform properties.  This region of the universe is thought to be many orders of magnitude larger than the observable region, because of a simple argument about scales.  If inflation had stopped just at the point where it created a region as large as we now observe, there must have been some parameter in the physics of inflation that selected a special time to stop, which just happens to be our era.  But this seems improbable, because inflation took place when the universe had a temperature ten to twenty orders of magnitude greater than the center of the hottest star today; thus the laws governing it must have been different laws, which dominate physics only in those extreme conditions.  There are many hypotheses about the laws that govern inflation, and none of them say anything about a time scale of 10 billion years.  Another way to put this is that there seems no way for the present value of the cosmological constant to have anything to do with the physics that caused inflation.

Thus if inflation produced a uniform universe on the scale that we observe, it likely produced a universe that is uniform on much larger scales.  This in turn implies that the pattern of fluctuations produced by inflation should go on and on, no matter how far you look.  If you could see beyond the present size of the observable universe, you should continue to see small fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background.  Instead, the data hint that the fluctuations may cease above the scale of R.

Indeed, as cosmologists have examined the large-scale modes in the microwave background, they have found more mysteries.  It's an item of faith among cosmologists that at the largest scales the universe should be symmetric - that is, any one direction should be like any other.  This is not what is seen.  The radiation in these large-scale modes is not symmetric; there is a preferred direction. (It has been called "axis of evil" by the cosmologists Kate Land and Joao Magueijo).  No one has any rational explanation for this effect.

These observations are controversial because they disagree profoundly with what we would expect on the basis of inflation.  Since inflation explains so much of cosmology, many prudent scientists suspect that there is something wrong with the microwave data.  Indeed , it is always possible that the measurements are just wrong.  A lot of delicate analysis is applied to the data before they're presented.  One thing that's done is to subtract the radiation known to come from the galaxy that we live in.  This may have been done incorrectly, but few experts familiar with the details of how the data are analyzed believe that to be the case.  Another possibility, as noted, is that our observations are just statistical anomalies.  An oscillation at a wavelength of the scale R takes up a huge part of the sky - about 60 degrees; consequently we see only a few wavelengths, and there are only a few pieces of data, so what we are seeing may just be a random statistical fluctuation.  The chances of the evidence for a preferred direction being a statistical anomaly have been estimated at less than 1 part in 1000.  But is may be easier to believe in this unlikely bad luck than to believe that the predictions of inflation are breaking down.

These issues are currently unresolved.  For the time being, it is enough to say that we went looking for strange physics on the scale of R and found it.

My contracting cyclic model gives physical cause and effect mechanics for it's Big Bangs and Inflation periods, and this data of a preferred direction will correspond to those mechanics.
Given that anyone can understand that a 'contracting' universe will eventually result in all the mass of the universe being in the same location, i.e. a super-massive black hole, and that a super-massive back hole with no counterpart gravitational force acting upon it will explode it's plasma in an outward trajectory in an inflation like manner, I will continue onto the next few pages of Lee Smolin's book concerning the R scale with respect MOND.

"The Trouble With Physics" - Chapter 13: Surprises from the Real World - page 208, 209
Quote
:Lee Smolin
These issues are currently unresolved.  For the time being, it is enough to say that we went looking for strange physics on the scale of R and found it...

Are there any other phenomenon associated with this scale?  We can combine R with other constants of nature to see what happens at scales defined by the resulting number.  Let me give an example.  Consider R divided by the speed of light: R/c.  This gives us a time, and the time given is roughly the present age of our universe.  The inverse, c/R, gives us a frequency - a very low note, one oscillation per lifetime of the universe.

The next simplest thing to try is c^2/R.  This turns out to be an acceleration.  It is in fact the acceleration by which the rate of the expansion of the universe is increasing - that is, the acceleration produced by the cosmological constant...

In my contracting model this 'acceleration' is the rate at which the universe is accelerated in its contraction.
(This does away with the necessity for Dark Energy - gravity is causing contraction.)

Quote
: Lee Smolin - page 209 continued...
...Compared to ordinary scales, however, it is a very tiny acceleration: 10-8 centimeters per second.  Imagine a bug crawling across the floor.  It manages to go perhaps 10 centimeters per second.  If the bug doubled it's speed over the lifetime of a dog, it would be accelerating as much as c^2/R, a very small acceleration indeed.

But suppose there is a new universal phenomenon that explains the value of the cosmological constant.  Just by the fact that the scales match, this new phenomenon should also affect any other kind of motion with an acceleration this tiny.  So anytime we can observe something moving with such tiny acceleration, we would expect to see something new.  Now the game starts getting interesting.  We do know things that accelerate this slowly.  One example is a typical star orbiting in a typical galaxy.  A galaxy orbiting another galaxy accelerates even more slowly.  So, do we see anything different about the orbits of stars with accelerations this tiny, compared to the orbits of stars with larger accelerations?  The answer is yes, we do, and dramatically so.  This is the problem of Dark Matter.

If one considers that the cosmological constant (that matches with c^2/R) is describing the acceleration of a gravitational contraction of the universe, one will find that Dark Matter is also unnecessary - more on this next post.
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #798 on: 26/06/2017 14:16:48 »
"The Trouble With Physics"  Chapter 13: Surprises from the Real World - pages 209, 210, 211
Quote
:Lee Smolin continued...
So, do we see anything different about the orbits of stars with larger accelerations?  The answer is yes, we do, and dramatically so.  This is the problem of dark matter...

As we discussed in chapter 1, astronomers discovered the dark matter problem by measuring the acceleration of stars in orbit about the center of their galaxies.  The problem arose because, given the measured accelerations, astronomers could deduce the distribution of the galaxy's matter.  In most galaxies, this result turned out to disagree with the matter observed directly.

I can now say a bit more about where the discrepancy arises. (For the sake of simplicity, I'll restrict the discussion to spiral galaxies, in which most stars move in circular orbits in a disk.)  In each galaxy where the problem is found, it affects only stars moving outside a certain orbit.  Within that orbit, there's no problem - the acceleration is what it should be if caused by visible matter.  So there seems to be a region in the interior of the galaxy within which Newton's laws work and there is no need for dark matter.  Outside this region, things get messy.

The key question is:  Where is the special orbit that separates the two regions?  We might suppose that it occurs at a particular distance from the center of the galaxy.  This is a natural hypothesis, but it is wrong.  Is the dividing line at a certain density of stars or starlight?  Again, the answer is no.  What seems to determine the dividing line, surprisingly, is the rate of acceleration itself.  As one moves further out from the center of the galaxy, accelerations decrease, and there turns out to be a critical rate that marks the breakdown of Newton'slaw of gravity.  As long as the acceleration of the star exceeds this critical value, Newton's law seems to work and the acceleration predicted is the one seen.  There is no need to posit any dark matter in these cases.  But when the acceleration observed is smaller than the critical value, it no longer agrees with the predictions of Newton's law.

What is this special acceleration?  It has been measured to be 1.2x10-8 centimeters per second per second.  This is close to c^2/R, the value of the acceleration of the cosmological constant!

This remarkable twist in the dark matter story was discovered by an Israeli physicist named Mordelhai Milgrom in the early 1980's.  He published his findings in 1983, but for many years they were largely ignored.  As the data have gotten better, however, it has become clear that his observation was correct.  The scale c^2/R characterizes where Newton's law breaks down for galaxies.  This is now called Milgrom's law by astronomers.

I want you to understand how weird this observation is.  The scale R is the the scale of the whole universe, which is enormously bigger than any individual galaxy.  The acceleration c^2/R occurs on this cosmological scale; as noted, it is the rate at which the universe's expansion accelerates.  There is no obvious reason for this scale to play any role in the dynamics of an individual galaxy.  The realization was forced upon us by the data.  I recall my amazement when I first learned about it.  I was shocked and energized.  I walked around for an hour in a daze, muttering incoherent obscenities.  Finally!  A possible hint from experiment that there is more to the world than we theorists imagine!

How is this to be explained?  Apart from coincidence, there are three possibilities.  There could be dark matter, and the scale of c^2/R could characterize the physics of the dark matter particles.  Or the dark matter halos could be characterized by the scale of c^2/R, because that is related to te density of dark matter at the time they collapsed to form galaxies.  In either case, the dark energy and dark matter are distinct phenomenon, but related.

The other possibility is that there is no dark matter and Newton's law of gravity breaks down whenever accelerations get as small as the special value of c^2/R.  In this case there needs to be a new law that replaces Newton's law in these circumstances.  In his 1983 paper, Milgrom proposed such a theory.  He called it MOND for "modified Newtonian dynamics."  According to Newton's law of gravity, the acceleration of a body due to a mass decreases in a specific way when you move away from that mass - that is, by the square of the distance.  Milgrom's theory says that Newton's law holds, but only until the acceleration decreases to the magic value of 1,2x10-8cm/sec^2.  After that point, rather than decreasing with the square of the distance, it decreases only by distance.  Moreover, while normally the Newtonian force is proportional to the mass of the body causing the acceleration times a constant (which is Newton's gravitational constant), MOND says that when the acceleration is very small, the force is proportional to the square root of the mass times Newton's constant.

If Milgrom is right, then the reason that the stars outside the special orbit are accelerating more than they should be is that they are feeling a stronger gravitational force than Newton predicted!  Here is brand-new physics - not at the Planck scale, and not even in an accelerator, but right in front of us, in the motions of the stars we see in the sky.

As a theory, MOND does not make much sense to physicists.  There are good reasons why the gravitational and electrical forces fall off with the square of the distance.  It turns out to be a consequence of relativity combined with the three dimensional nature of space.  I won't go into details here, but the conclusion is drastic.  Milgrom's theory appears inconsistent with basic physical principles, including those of special and general relativity.

I have explained in posts above how my theory makes adjustments to both special and general relativity, but to re-cap:
My theory adds a 3rd aspect to the time dilation phenomenon for where m=0, i.e. open space.
This renders the time dilation's of special and general relativity as the experience of the mass 'only', where changes in frequency are the indication of changes in the rate of time, or more specifically, the timing of that mass.
The 'timing itself' of any mass travelling 'in' the 3rd aspect time dilated open space will not be directly affected by the 3rd aspect time dilation, but the mass will be indirectly affected because the motion of the mass travelling through the time dilated space 'will' be affected as being accelerated towards the greater M, or decelerated away from the greater M, due to changes in the rate of this 3rd aspect time dilation.
So - where Einstein has shown that gravity and acceleration are the same thing, my theory says that acceleration and this 3rd aspect time dilation of open space are the same thing.

The interesting thing about Milgrom's theory MOND is that what we see is a transference of proportionality:
Quote
Milgrom's theory says that Newton's law holds, but only until the acceleration decreases to the magic value of 1,2x10-8cm/sec^2.  After that point, rather than decreasing with the square of the distance, it decreases only by distance.  Moreover, while normally the Newtonian force is proportional to the mass of the body causing the acceleration times a constant (which is Newton's gravitational constant), MOND says that when the acceleration is very small, the force is proportional to the square root of the mass times Newton's constant.
That which is normally proportional to the square of the distance is now proportional to distance only...
That which is normally proportional to the mass times Newton's constant is now proportional to the square root of the mass times Newton's constant.
 
I have explained in previous posts how my model describes causality for both the attraction of gravity (mass internal GR&SR timing), and the acceleration of gravity (3rd aspect time dilation of open space), but I will put this description into the context of galaxies and 'potentially' Milgrom's theory next post...
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Re: Is there a discrepancy with the equivalence principle?
« Reply #799 on: 30/06/2017 13:42:19 »
Firstly to make a reminder:
In adding this 3rd aspect to the time dilation phenomenon for where m=0, i.e: open space, to give a physical cause and effect description for the phenomenon of gravitational acceleration, my model has re-interpreted the red shift distance correlation, i.e. Hubble's flow, as being caused by Doppler shifts in 'time'.  And that where peculiar velocity deviates from Hubble's flow, this is also caused by Doppler shifts in 'time'. Where the 'time' being shifted is this added 3rd aspect to the time dilation phenomenon for where m=0, i.e: open space, and the 'shifting' of this time is caused by the changing strength of the gravitational field between masses, and strength of gravitational field is vacuum energy related where +energy=shorter seconds...

+energy=shorter seconds being the principle theory of my model...

This +energy=shorter seconds remit also applies to the frequency changes that we observe of a clock under the remit of both GR and SR frameworks of time dilation, and applies where I have said this in last post:
Quote
I have explained in previous posts how my model describes causality for both the attraction of gravity (mass internal GR&SR timing)
...and in adding this 3rd aspect to the time dilation phenomenon, this applies where I have finished the above sentence with:
Quote
and the acceleration of gravity (3rd aspect time dilation of open space)

It is important to note that my model makes a clear cut distinction between the internal timing of mass (GR and SR time dilation's) and the external timing (3rd aspect time dilation) of the space that mass moves through.  It is only by viewing the phenomenon of time in this 3 dimensional fashion that what I'm going to say about Milgrom's theory MOND in relation to DSR (doubly special relativity) will make any geometrical sense.

To go back to a post I made earlier this thread:
Quote
:post 49
If you travel one metre at a constant speed that is held relative to a longer or shorter 'variable' second.  Then the distance remains the same, and it just takes a longer or shorter amount of 'time' to travel that metre.

This is the basis of my model's temporal interpretation of non-Euclidean space.  In order to understand what I am going to say about MOND and DSR I need you to consider that a temporal interpretation of non-Euclidean space, (or noncommutative geometry-quantum) is emergent of 3 dimensions of Euclidean spacial geometry, and that this is achievable via a simple mathematical juggle with the speed distance time formula.

Now I can move onto describing galaxies under the remit of my model - which I will do next post.
« Last Edit: 01/07/2017 12:00:08 by timey »
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