[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

So with no objections to the "no beginning", and in recognition of those who have thought about it beyond that step, yes, we are saying that the universe has always existed, and I am adding, that on a grand scale, there would have been no universal changes of state such as the idea of Lerner that the observable universe was preceded by a plasma state.

My thinking is that it would take some sort of intervention to change from a plasma state to the current state, and any such intervention seems to be on the same level as "something from nothing".






57095,

[Professor Mega-Mind]

"Bogey at two o'clock !
Sorry , I just had to say that , at least once in my existence !
As to the thread subject ; I doubt that Mr. Lerner would claim to have a bead on the "Prime-Mover" , anymore than advocates of the Big-Bang Theory (or the TV. show).
I personally like the Big-Heat theory , where the universe had space first , then the ungodly-huge energy was injected in . However , there definitely could have been an intermediate plasma-state . It's possible that in future , some new math or observational evidence will become extant , but for now , we are the "...deaf , dumb , and blind kids..." !
Toodles , and watch your six !

P.M.

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

"Bogey at two o'clock !
Sorry , I just had to say that , at least once in my existence !
As to the thread subject ; I doubt that Mr. Lerner would claim to have a bead on the "Prime-Mover" , anymore than advocates of the Big-Bang Theory (or the TV. show).
I personally like the Big-Heat theory , where the universe had space first , then the ungodly-huge energy was injected in . However , there definitely could have been an intermediate plasma-state . It's possible that in future , some new math or observational evidence will become extant , but for now , we are the "...deaf , dumb , and blind kids..." !
Toodles , and watch your six !

P.M.

It is that injection of ungodly-huge-energy that seems hard to accept. But since my preference, "always existed" is hard for many to accept, it becomes a matter of "what we don't know", .




57125

[Professor Mega-Mind]

Yah , it's right up there with that eternal injection of space, that we call "inflation"!
Well , Tommy can hear you !
P.M.  .

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

Right down my alley, ... infinite space for eternity, and infinite energy for eternity ... the common denominator is eternity. Everything has always existed so no need for something from nothing.








57180

[Professor Mega-Mind]

Yeah but ...
Just like people , it develops , changes , and has a life-cycle .
A plasma-sea is not a spiral galaxy , for instance .
Perhaps the deep-past and deep-future had/will have very different physics than at present .
Maybe the multiverse ingests universes , and/or their energy .
It could take millions of years to answer these questions , then there'll be more .
Au revoir , Oz !
P.M.

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

I like to have an opinion on the nature of things, and I agree that an infinite and eternal universe leaves some room for speculation, even wild speculation, lol.


But I have come to a personal conclusion I call the "sameness doctrine". That is, on a grand scale, the universe might well be a multiple big bang universe where big bangs are common events across infinite space, and time, but there is a "sameness" in the mechanics that dictates that as those bangs occur, they will expand, intersect and overlap. New Big Crunches will from in the overlap spaces out of the galactic matter and energy contributed by those parent arenas, and those new crunches will collapse/bang into new expanding big bang arenas. It is a perpetual phenomenon going on all the time across infinite space.

My view is that those are the physics that remain the same everywhere, eternally, and as crunch/bang cycles play out, they are characterized by that "sameness" over space and time.

57210,57284,57324,57389,57430,57480,

[Professor Mega-Mind]

I'm a "Big-Rip" kinda guy , myself .
I think that whatever cycles are involved , are far grander than what you've referred to .
😬

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

I'm a "Big-Rip" kinda guy , myself .
I think that whatever cycles are involved , are far grander than what you've referred to .
😬

Maybe so. When the premise is "infinite and eternal", one man's grand wave is another man's ripple, .



57545

[Professor Mega-Mind]

So , it's infinitely relative !  .🤓

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

So , it's infinitely relative !  .🤓

Yes. I'll credit you with that when I quote you

[Professor Mega-Mind]

...Bwaa-Haha-Haha...
I'm flattered !  .😅

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

An important concept in the "sameness doctrine" is "the big bang arena" as described in reply #506. The premise is that the universe is filled with a potentially infinite number of such arenas at all times, and they expand, overlap, form crunches, and the crunches "bang" into new expanding arenas in a perpetual dance of matter and energy. There is so much time, and so many combinations of matter and energy and environment, that life inevitably arises, finds a foothold, evolves, and high intelligence is spawned. Say "hello", lol.








57654,57744,57767,

[Professor Mega-Mind]

A "Crunchy-Roll" universe ?
Naah , I prefer an explicable process , even if it currently exceeds our grasp ! .🤔

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

A "Crunchy-Roll" universe ?
...

"Crunchy-Roll" ... not bad, but it could use some spiffing up. How about, "It crunches! It bangs! It's Super Universe!".

Sorry for the whimsical turn, but the emphasis here is on endless big bangs for eternity across infinite space.






57777

[Professor Mega-Mind]

That sounds like a perpetual-motion machine .
How's about "Each universe is a raindrop  , in an eternal rainstorm ." ? 
🤔

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

That sounds like a perpetual-motion machine .
How's about "Each universe is a raindrop  , in an eternal rainstorm ." ? 
🤔

That's good too, but a bit gloomy.

And yes, in my view, the universe is a perpetual motion machine.





57859,57987,

[Professor Mega-Mind]

That make Entropy awful angry !  .🤨

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

That make Entropy awful angry !  .🤨

Yes, lol. But remember that my answers are based on an infinite and eternal universe; the ultimate open system, where entropy will never be complete on a grand scale.

[Professor Mega-Mind]

Sounds tricky ! 
Personally , I have a hard time believing in extant infinities .  .🤔