[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

Sounds tricky ! 
Personally , I have a hard time believing in extant infinities .  .🤔

I understand. I got over the difficulty of "grasping" infinities by boiling it down to one man's logic. The three infinities are space, time, and energy. If they are not infinite, how are they bounded?




57993,58056,

[Professor Mega-Mind]

I 'spec the universe has an actual size , just far beyond our ability to observe .
I also expect that the universe will end at some point , but not the multiverse .
Finally , there's only so much energy in the 'verse , so... ratio .
👽

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

I 'spec the universe has an actual size , just far beyond our ability to observe .
I also expect that the universe will end at some point , but not the multiverse .
Finally , there's only so much energy in the 'verse , so... ratio .
👽

That's fine. I'm comfortable with the three infinities, and would need to know how space, time, and energy are bounded if they aren't infinite.



58094,58142,58289,

[Professor Mega-Mind]

The energy bit is one thing , the other two will be a while .  .🤔

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

The energy bit is one thing , the other two will be a while .  .🤔

I appreciate your response, and you can try, but if the universe is infinite in space, time, and energy, none of those three characteristics can be bounded. I remain open to any logical ideas.






58449,58798,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

Multiple big bangs in an infinite and eternal universe is the backdrop to all existence, to anything and everything that has ever, or will ever exist. The chain of thought goes from accepting the Three Infinities, space, time, and energy, to looking at the particular circumstances of life as we know it. We only have life on Earth to go by, but there are tantalizing hints of advanced pre-history on Earth, and it stands to reason that our planet could have a lengthy pre-history of which there is no or very little physical evidence. Check out what they call the Antikythera Mechanism, or the Phaistos Disc, and some of the pre-history comes to life.

Multiply that by an infinite history of an infinite expanse of space, filled with matter and energy, galaxies, stars and planets, and you begin to see the opportunities for a vast and varied existence of very highly advanced life forms. Advanced technology exists out there, and as I read about it, contemplate it, and speculate in this tread, I seek input from the community. Feel free to contemplate and speculate with me and on you own, and discuss here.


58810,58831,58880,58986,

[Professor Mega-Mind]

I would define infinite universes , living and dying eternally , as a multiverse .
P.M.

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

I would define infinite universes , living and dying eternally , as a multiverse .
P.M.

I grew up with the concept that "universe" meant just one.





59015,59037,59089,

[Malamute Lover]

if the universe is infinite in space, time, and energy, none of those three characteristics can be bounded. I remain open to any logical ideas.

Bounded is not the operative word. The surface of a sphere is finite yet unbounded. No edge to fall off. A universe that is a 4-dimensional hypersphere would also have no bounds but still be finite. Since time and energy are contents of the universe, they would be finite but have no edges, no bounds.

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

if the universe is infinite in space, time, and energy, none of those three characteristics can be bounded. I remain open to any logical ideas.

Bounded is not the operative word. The surface of a sphere is finite yet unbounded. No edge to fall off. A universe that is a 4-dimensional hypersphere would also have no bounds but still be finite. Since time and energy are contents of the universe, they would be finite but have no edges, no bounds.

Where my view differs from that sphere analogy, is that an infinite and eternal universe would include all such spheres, and all of the space around and beyond the spherical shape or shapes.


59105,59125,59168,

[Malamute Lover]

if the universe is infinite in space, time, and energy, none of those three characteristics can be bounded. I remain open to any logical ideas.

Bounded is not the operative word. The surface of a sphere is finite yet unbounded. No edge to fall off. A universe that is a 4-dimensional hypersphere would also have no bounds but still be finite. Since time and energy are contents of the universe, they would be finite but have no edges, no bounds.

Where my view differs from that sphere analogy, is that an infinite and eternal universe would include all such spheres, and all of the space around and beyond the spherical shape or shapes.


59105,59125,59168,

All possible physical manifestations being existent, including exotic laws of physics, would be a neat solution to why this universe is no idiosyncratic. E.g., why are the relative strengths of the four forces so oddly spread out? Why is the universe filled with normal matter?  Why do some mesons act so wacky? Just luck of the draw out of infinite possibilities.

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

All possible physical manifestations being existent, including exotic laws of physics, would be a neat solution to why this universe is no idiosyncratic. E.g., why are the relative strengths of the four forces so oddly spread out? Why is the universe filled with normal matter?  Why do some mesons act so wacky? Just luck of the draw out of infinite possibilities.

We differ on the explanation for the relative strengths, the preponderance of normal matter, etc. You point to the luck of the draw as if those things were decided at some point in the past, presumably a starting point. I think that the laws of physics could only be what they are, no luck, no draw . The universe has always existed and the laws of physics governing the greater universe are fixed across time and space.


59205,

[Malamute Lover]

All possible physical manifestations being existent, including exotic laws of physics, would be a neat solution to why this universe is no idiosyncratic. E.g., why are the relative strengths of the four forces so oddly spread out? Why is the universe filled with normal matter?  Why do some mesons act so wacky? Just luck of the draw out of infinite possibilities.

We differ on the explanation for the relative strengths, the preponderance of normal matter, etc. You point to the luck of the draw as if those things were decided at some point in the past, presumably a starting point. I think that the laws of physics could only be what they are, no luck, no draw . The universe has always existed and the laws of physics governing the greater universe are fixed across time and space.


59205,

This being your thread, I will not delve any further into my thoughts on the matter. Perhaps I will start my own Crazy New Theories thread on the subject.

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

All possible physical manifestations being existent, including exotic laws of physics, would be a neat solution to why this universe is no idiosyncratic. E.g., why are the relative strengths of the four forces so oddly spread out? Why is the universe filled with normal matter?  Why do some mesons act so wacky? Just luck of the draw out of infinite possibilities.

We differ on the explanation for the relative strengths, the preponderance of normal matter, etc. You point to the luck of the draw as if those things were decided at some point in the past, presumably a starting point. I think that the laws of physics could only be what they are, no luck, no draw . The universe has always existed and the laws of physics governing the greater universe are fixed across time and space.


59205,

This being your thread, I will not delve any further into my thoughts on the matter. Perhaps I will start my own Crazy New Theories thread on the subject.

No need to start a thread on that. I have invited all comers to speak their minds and post their particular (and peculiar) ideas, , please.


59264,59275,59325,59370,59395,59492,59581,59634,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

Tell me more details about the whacky action of mesons; I am interested to know more about science discoveries related to various views about the universe.


59665,59718,59781,

[Malamute Lover]

Tell me more details about the whacky action of mesons; I am interested to know more about science discoveries related to various views about the universe.

I have been busy with both RL and with other threads here and have not gotten around to writing a clear exposition of my ideas mentioned above. Plus in replying to another thread, the one about the B Meson, I realized that I need to do some research and correct the math.

In the meantime, check this out.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Particles/hadron.html

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

In this thread we are assuming that across the infinite and eternal universe there are an infinite number of big bangs occurring here and there, all the time, and  big bang arenas are continually forming, expanding, converging, and forming new big crunches, and new crunches collapse and bang to renew and perpetuate the eternal cycle.


Within an expanding arena,  stars and galaxies form and mature, and that is where life is generated from the interactions of the elements and physical conditions. Various life forms arise and adjust to hospitable environments, leading to highly advanced life forms that evolve, exist and intermingle across vast reaches of space, assuring the maintenance of actively evolving varieties of life across space and time.


The universe is big, the part we see is tiny, the possibilities are endless, and our imaginations need never run out.



60283,60304,60329,60380,60398,60446,60486,60523,60552,60568,60575,60616,60736,60764,60842,61002,61050,61101,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

“ The universe is big, the part we see is tiny, the possibilities are endless, and our imaginations need never run out.”

All true IMHO, and so what is there about the universe that is most noteworthy? Aside from time, and life itself, it is consciousness, perception, thought, and imagination rendered possible by the brain. It is those things that fill our time.

And to a greater or lessor degree, we decide for ourselves how we pass our time, or at least how we use our free time.

61107,61133,61142,61164,61197,61388,61453,61507,61550,61583,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

“ And to a greater or lessor degree, we decide for ourselves how we pass our time, or at least how we use our free time.”

And being able to communicate is right up there on the list of essentials. My, how far life has come from the protozoan stage of evolution when communication amounted to bumping into something and changing direction, and bumping into something else. Maybe I would call that the stage of blind trial and error in our evolutionary epoch. In accordance with the Sameness Doctrine, it has happened much more that 10 trillion to the 10 trillionth power in terms of the number of times such a pattern of life originating from the inanimate and then played out or is right now playing out in some passing time. That speculation considers just the tiny volume of space occupied by our observable universe, given the infinite history of time presumed. Probably no number is big enough to actually quantify how many times self-replicating life has originated somewhere across the universe, and then taken a foothold and evolved to higher life forms.


I take that to mean that the concept of God need not be taboo to science, if one is able to equate the infinite and eternal universe to God.


62431,






Modified

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

“I take that to mean that the concept of God need not be taboo to science, if one is able to equate the infinite and eternal universe to God."

62431,

However, having a God concept where God equates to the entire infinite and eternal universe seems redundant unless there is something out there that can be attributed to an act of God. Let's say you don't subscribe to attributing the existence of the universe to an act of God ... is there any current event that would demonstrate Godly intervention?




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