[Halc]

Agreed they won't be humans, even far from post humans.

We should excercise our Rights to create something way better than Us.

Creating something better than us would be that AGI which you mentioned. Nothing says an AGI needs to be non-biological. OK, I don't think there's any kind of measurement where one can say that species X is better than species Y, but I suppose its continued existence for tens of millions of years would be a start. Sharks are far better than us for instance by this measure. We've been around less than 1% of that time.
The improvements (or redesign from scratch) you suggested would seem to produce something that in no way is related to a human. Neither would have intelligence to speak of, which requires more of a burn-the-candle-at-both-ends sort of design.

I do have Very High Hopes from AGI.
But cracking the nut of " What is Consciousness " seems far fetched at this point in time.

That's only a philosophical problem. The AGI engineers need not concern themselves with it.

I've been Guilty of dragging this OP in nooks & corners where it was unintended to go, hence i shall give my blabbering a rest now.

I suspect Bogey likes the traffic to his topic, regardless of where that traffic takes it. I don't think he resents your input, as evidenced by all the thanked posts you see.

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

...

P.S. - I've been Guilty of dragging this OP in nooks & corners where it was unintended to go, hence i shall give my blabbering a rest now.
(Sorry)

169928

You shouldn't be shy on the internet ... Threads go where they go; its a rule, lol.

Sharks do have redeeming characteristics ... 
shark-personality-traits-characteristics


... 170194,170256,

[Zer0]

Thank You Mr Smiles, for being such a Kind & Understanding individual.
🙏

You know Hal, Your simplest of expressions Transcend & go way beyond & above my Deepest Thoughts.
Stuff like AGIs having a Great Filter to go thru, or for Them to be able to Exist in a biological form is Splendid.
Good Work!

P.S. - so...No simple life, No complex life, No intelligent life & No AGIs...what a Strange & Weird Universe this is...DamN!
☹️

P.S. - perhaps another way too look at the above, is to Think of how Strange & Weird Life in itself is, isn't it.

170378

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

P.S. - so...No simple life, No complex life, No intelligent life & No AGIs...what a Strange & Weird Universe this is...DarN!,
☹️


P.S. - perhaps another way too look at the above, is to Think of how Strange & Weird Life in itself is, isn't it.

170378

I'm constantly in awe of life. I wonder if it is possible to imagine there never was life?  I don't think it is possible to imagine a lifeless universe since you have to be alive to imagine that, .




170469,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

... you have to be alive to imagine ...

And when it comes right down to it, the laws of nature set the rule .

There are variables in the rule though; it is not a deterministic universe. There is a randomness in everything at some level. It may take a finite time and space for the underlying randomness to appear, but there is plenty of time and space for randomness to patient.




170827,

[Halc]

I don't think it is possible to imagine a lifeless universe

I can imagine that with little problem.
Much harder is to imagine the universe objectively, since we only know a subjective view.

... you have to be alive to imagine ...

There is no such requirement, except given a biased definition of the word, but that would merely be a language restriction, not a restriction of the ability of something not alive. It would be like saying that no man can be a waitress. It isn't that he can't do it, it's just that a different word would apply to a man doing it.

it is not a deterministic universe.

Unless you can falsify all the deterministic interpretations of physics, you don't know this. Don't confuse deterministic with unpredictable.

It may take a finite time and space for the underlying randomness to appear

It actually seems to appear immediately, but over time averages out to predictability. So flip one coin (black or white side) and you cannot predict the outcome, but flip a million coins, and the result will be grey quite predictably.

even a planet killer asteroid would be unlikely to destroy all life.

The biggest hit Earth has ever taken (the Theia event) may or may not have happened before there was life, but it if was already there, it was not wiped out by it. I agree, an asteroid is probably not up to the job, but the coming warming (in a billion years or so) will boil away all water and make the planet uninhabitable for multicellular life. Life will survive this in simple form for several more billion years until the sun grows enough to possibly swallow Earth if it doesn't move far enough away in that time.

I could see a huge chunk of Earth having enough gravity to be planet like, and to host some form of life to start the process over again as it finds a new star or planet out there to orbit around.

It doesn't take a large chunk or gravity at all. Any rock big enough to not be completely destroyed by falling on another host planet can transport dormant life to it. There's a reasonable probability that life originated on some other planet and only got here via such a calamity to the original world. Something lived inside a rock for aeons in space and was deep enough to not be burnt to a crisp on entry into our atmosphere. Then only a few centuries of erosion lets the life out of the rock and bingo, we have life here that originated elsewhere. How it subsequently evolved into the life we know is definitely still a product of Earth's environment which is very likely completely different than the world from which that rock was ejected.

[Zer0]

I Imagine Alot...& I'm a staunch Believer!

Thanks & Credits & Copyrights/Source -
David Bowie/YouTube.

P.S. - Hope the OP enjoys it as much as i do.
☺️

171217

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

I Imagine Alot...& I'm a staunch Believer!

Thanks & Credits & Copyrights/Source -
David Bowie/YouTube.

P.S. - Hope the OP enjoys it as much as i do.
☺️

171217

Yes, "Let the children boogie"!





171263,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

My so called model acknowledges not only human ingenuity, but also the ingenuity of intelligent beings that have existed across infinite space and time. Our earthly situation, to our knowledge, exemplifies the height of knowledge and intelligence, but there is some room to suppose that there have been, or are, more advanced civilizations than ours, and I'm not referring to our past here on Earth, but including the existence of intelligence elsewhere out there in space and time.


Humans can be traced back to prehistoric ancestors on Earth, but physically, Earth and our imprint on the universe represents almost nothing, almost nowhere, almost never, relative to the infinites of space, time, and energy.


We may well find irrefutable evidence of other intelligent life out there during our generation or the next generation, and when we do, there will be an awakening to the possibility that life has always existed across space and time, and that realization will open our thinking to far reaching possibilities for the future of Mankind, and for the future of life itself.


Working that philosophy forward in time and space, I imagine there will be great discoveries that will speed up our technical advancement and capabilities, ... and hopefully by the time a planet killer astroid with Earth's name on it crosses our path and wipes us out, we will have made our break out from Earth.  That breakout depends on becoming an advanced space-traveling life form, and learning to utilize the resources that exist on other planets and in space itself.


171336,171362,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

Yay! We can be something's dinner!

It is coming inevitably, but it is the least of our problems. Besides, cleaning the slate once in a while is good for things, as evidenced by all the prior ones.

True, cleaning the blackboards from my school days always meant we were moving on to something new.

And in regard to starting over here on Earth... even a planet killer asteroid would be unlikely to destroy all life. I could see a huge chunk of Earth having enough gravity to be planet like, and to host some form of life to start the process over again as it finds a new star or planet out there to orbit around. No hurry though, lol.


171471,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

...

Then only a few centuries of erosion lets the life out of the rock and bingo, we have life here that originated elsewhere. How it subsequently evolved into the life we know is definitely still a product of Earth's environment which is very likely completely different than the world from which that rock was ejected.

That sounds simple, but with even a few more layers of complication, life seems to be so able to adapt to changing environments and surroundings, so your scenario of the transport of life across distances of space seems likely.



171772,171826,

[Zer0]

P.S. - Hope the OP enjoys it as much as i do.
☺️

171217

Yes, "Let the children boogie"!

171263,

lol...thought so...EnJoY!

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

When I predict that the universe is full of life, "full of" needs to be further quantified, especially since after all of our efforts, we don't seem to have any hard irrefutable evidence of life elsewhere, let alone intelligent life. But no matter, my predictions go beyond current known facts related to "other" life, and fall into the area of speculation; I speculate that life abounds across the universe.

So let me discuss quantification of my prediction that in an infinite universe, there have been, are now, and always will be occurrences of life. That means that I think life is a natural occurrence, just like the moon and the stars. My thinking is that Intelligent life emerges in habitable places, given enough time. Since I am talking about there being an infinite amount of time in the past, and in the future, the time it would take for life to emerge in any hospitable environment is not an obstacle, but is just an inevitable event waiting to happen here and there, now and then.




172190,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

... I speculate that life abounds across the universe.

... That means that I think life is a natural occurrence, just like the moon and the stars. ... life emerges in habitable places, given enough time. ... the time it would take for life to emerge in any hospitable environment is not an obstacle, but is just an inevitable event waiting to happen here and there, now and then.

It goes beyond "survival of the fittest" IMHO. When the survival of the fittest is achieved, the conditions for the on-going evolution of higher intelligence are in place. But it can go forward or backward, so I would say there are odds of either outcome. I think the odds favor forward in the long run, but I imagine that forward is not always the result. That might be why the process is so time consuming.



Nevertheless, intelligence gain happens until an inevitable set-back occurs, like a random asteroid .


172867.173294,173704,

[Zer0]

I watched a Video on YouTube...

In it, a thought experiment was presented.

A million people locked up in isolation in a jail cell without knowing about each others existence...

All given 60 seconds to Pick the Lock of their respective cell...orelse they die suddenly...

Out of a million, only one Succeeded!
& That person ended up thinking picking the lock is an easy process, a cake walk of sorts.

P.S. - Origins of Life.
🎂🚷

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

My premise is that the event that has set the observable universe into expansion was just one of a potentially infinite number of similar Big Bang events, occurring now and then, here and there, across time and space. If so, then the nature of the universe could be portrayed as the large scale version of a continuous holiday fireworks display . Each colorful and brilliant burst would equate to a separate new Big Bang event, and these big bangs would be common place when you consider the grand scale of things.





173785,

[alancalverd]

When the survival of the fittest is achieved, the conditions for the on-going evolution of higher intelligence are in place

The fittest seem to be viruses, capable of extremely rapid evolution and population growth compared with their hosts. Not sure how you define intelligence, but I think the average virus has an immeasurably low IQ.

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

When the survival of the fittest is achieved, the conditions for the on-going evolution of higher intelligence are in place

The fittest seem to be viruses, capable of extremely rapid evolution and population growth compared with their hosts. Not sure how you define intelligence, but I think the average virus has an immeasurably low IQ.

True, one way of characterizing fitness for survival would be like that of viruses. On the other hand, fitness of the higher orders, like modern humans, is at a level where survival of the fittest includes competition for scarce resources in the wild, with no holds barred.




173818,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

The 'here and there' part is particularly problematic.

I consider the "here and there" idea as a hypothetical assertion associated with the multiple Big Bang premise. That premise, as I imagine it, has only one infinite space, so multiple big bangs all occur in that one space, in different places in that space, from time to time.




174030,174191,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

The 'here and there' part is particularly problematic.

I consider the "here and there" idea as a hypothetical assertion associated with the multiple Big Bang premise. That premise, as I imagine it, has only one infinite space, so multiple big bangs all occur in that one space, in different places in that space, from time to time.

When dealing with the universe that has infinite dimensions, and when invoking an open-ended time scale, with the intention that nothing is excluded, then what one word would serve as a simple way of saying "all that is, ever has been, and ever will be". Isn't there a single word in English for it all. What is the word I am trying to come up with?


174323,