[Halc]

If i was Never born,
i shall Never die...

My sister did that actually, so I suppose she is a counterexample to your statement.
She was about 5 months older than me.

How about the premise that life has always existed; has an infinite past as well as an infinite future.

Seems there would be a lot more life seen in places other than Earth then. There is a very viable proposal that Earth life did not originate on Earth, but even it doesn't go so far as to say it was always there. That violates all evidence.

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

Speculation. I know it is not science, but yet here we are, so life either started somewhere, or has always been perpetuating itself somehow. Evidence of some things may be lost in the past and obscured in the distance, but can be contemplated here on the "lighter side" .

[Zer0]

@Halc

My Deepest Apologies!
Sorry to hear about your Sister.
Peace!

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

Speculation. I know it is not science, but yet here we are, so life either started somewhere, or has always been perpetuating itself somehow. Evidence of some things may be lost in the past and obscured in the distance, but can be contemplated here on the "lighter side" .

The "arrow of time" is one of the fundamental concepts I enjoy spending time contemplating. The "arrow of time" is a fundamental concept in my rantings about the ISU, "The Infinite Spongy Universe Model of Cosmology".

Of course, the ISU features space, so I like to say that in the ISU, we have to accept that space is infinite, unless anyone has an alternative that doesn't require the Supernatural.






Infinite space just seems so perfectly natural to me that I can't imagine any alternative short of the introduction of God, and I don't think science goes there. I personally like to have a concept I refer to as God, but only on the basis that I consider God and the universe to be "one and the same".


230230,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

we have to accept that space is infinite, unless anyone has an alternative that doesn't require the Supernatural.

There are a lot of alternatives that don't require the supernatural.
How do you explain (without supernatural) the existence of this been-there-forever universe you propose. Sure, you avoid the whole [nothing, then later something] issue, but you still need to explain the something. It's not a science problem, but rather pure philosophy. So science doesn't need to answer it, but a belief system does.

I simply explain it by saying there was no beginning; the universe has always existed and displays what I call the "sameness principle." The laws of physics apply everywhere and are the same everywhere, and always have been. When we discover new phenomena, we derive new physics that have always existed too. I speculate that there is a lot of discovery ahead for humanity on Earth, and for other advanced life forms everywhere, assuming we are not alone.


230276,230950,231051,

[Zer0]

@OP
Have you ever thought How&Why is it Infinite & Eternal?
I'm Agreeing it is.

Even if there is something Supernatural, Why&How n for What reason are things the way they are?

Why is there Something, rather than Nothing!


ps - To see a World in a Grain of Sand,
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower.
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand & Eternity in an hour.
(Blake)

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

@OP
Have you ever thought How&Why is it Infinite & Eternal?

I'm Agreeing it is.

Even if there is something Supernatural, Why&How n for What reason are things the way they are?

Why is there Something, rather than Nothing!


ps - To see a World in a Grain of Sand,
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower.
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand & Eternity in an hour.
(Blake)

I've thought about it, and this is my personal conclusion ,,,
On a grand scale, the Universe is the way it is, and could be no other way.



231816,

[Zer0]

On a grand scale, the Universe is the way it is, and could be no other way.

& the Only way WE can Experience it...
Is to simply Dissolve ourselves innit..
There is No Other Way.

ps - stay wild, stay curious!
: )

[Zer0]

the Universe is the way it is, and could be no other way

I'd have said something more like "the Universe is the way it is, and if it was another way, it would be a different universe"

But if it was Any different, We might have Not Existed.
Or maybe We would have, just Differently.

Maybe the One in which We seem to be stuck in, is the Different Universe.
No Wonder some of Us feel out of place & time.
A weird sensation, feeling like,. This is Not where We Belong.

ps - if space Expands, which it does, What then is it expanding into?
NoThing!
(lol)

[Zer0]

I'd have said something more like "the Universe is the way it is, and if it was another way, it would be a different universe"

But if it was Any different, We might have Not Existed.

If this universe was any different, we would still in the universe that is this way, but indeed not in the universe that is another way, which we've designated as 'this universe'. We would consider the other universe (the one that is 'this way' to be 'this universe'.  'This universe' is pretty much by definition the one you find yourself in.

Yep!
The House in which We are Born is Home, doesn't matter however it may be, it's still
Home Sweet Home!
(donno why the grass seems greener at neighbours thou)

Or maybe We would have, just Differently.

I would consider 'differently' to be other people, not 'we'. Physics has little to say about this since it provides no guidance concerning identity, so there's no test to say if say one person at one time and another person in another state is in fact the same person.

Can't remember where i read this Analogy of a Cat jumping in the air & landing back on ground.
But it said, The cat which landed back was Different from Thee cat which was in the air.
& Both of em were Different from Theee cat which had Jumped!
(might not make sense to U, but to me it does...meow)

Maybe the One in which We seem to be stuck in, is the Different Universe.

They're all different. Each universe considers all others to be different, unless you propose I suppose some view where two universes can be identical and yet in some way meaningfully distinct.

A bit Unbelievable to hear such Words coming from You.
Looks like You are finally ONboard!
( : Welcome to the Multiverse : )

if space Expands, which it does, What then is it expanding into?

It doesn't expand into anything, which is a lot different than suggesting it expands into nothing.

& that it does Not expand into Anything, is Alot different from suggesting that it expands into Nothing.

ps - Everything expanding into Anything is Fine, but it can't be Nothing.
It's gotta be SomeThing!!!

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

I'd have said something more like "the Universe is the way it is, and if it was another way, it would be a different universe"

But if it was Any different, We might have Not Existed.

If this universe was any different, we would still in the universe that is this way, but indeed not in the universe that is another way, which we've designated as 'this universe'. We would consider the other universe (the one that is 'this way' to be 'this universe'.  'This universe' is pretty much by definition the one you find yourself in.

Yep!
The House in which We are Born is Home, doesn't matter however it may be, it's still
Home Sweet Home!
(donno why the grass seems greener at neighbours thou)

Or maybe We would have, just Differently.

I would consider 'differently' to be other people, not 'we'. Physics has little to say about this since it provides no guidance concerning identity, so there's no test to say if say one person at one time and another person in another state is in fact the same person.

Can't remember where i read this Analogy of a Cat jumping in the air & landing back on ground.
But it said, The cat which landed back was Different from Thee cat which was in the air.
& Both of em were Different from Theee cat which had Jumped!
(might not make sense to U, but to me it does...meow)

Maybe the One in which We seem to be stuck in, is the Different Universe.

They're all different. Each universe considers all others to be different, unless you propose I suppose some view where two universes can be identical and yet in some way meaningfully distinct.

A bit Unbelievable to hear such Words coming from You.
Looks like You are finally ONboard!
( : Welcome to the Multiverse : )

if space Expands, which it does, What then is it expanding into?

It doesn't expand into anything, which is a lot different than suggesting it expands into nothing.

& that it does Not expand into Anything, is Alot different from suggesting that it expands into Nothing.

ps - Everything expanding into Anything is Fine, but it can't be Nothing.
It's gotta be SomeThing!!!

Observed expansion, i.e. the apparent separation of the distant galaxies in the heavenly sphere, is a local observation. I wouldn't be surprised that every observer of the universe, in any location within the infinite universe, would detect the "separation effect" if their locality in the universe was characterized by expansion, i.e. the aftereffect of a Big Bang like event. In the ISU model, big bangs happen here and there, now and then, and so every environment is either about to get caught up in a "bang" or is about to participate in a Big Crunch. Crunch, bang, crunch bang, here and there, now and then, at the whim of gravitational force of accumulated mass.

We are talking huge masses that might very well exist out there, and that Bang (verb) because their gravity cannot contain the destructive force of compression, causing the growing massive object to collapse within itself. so violently that the collapse leads to a massive bounce that has such force that it causes what we now observe as expansion.


234073,234086,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

Accumulated mass cannot bang. A little bit (a bomb say) can, but not a big bit. A big crunch is different since it doesn't happen at a specific location, but rather everywhere, and thus isn't particularly an accumulation of mass in one place.

That is one of the departure points between my hobby ideas and generally accepted scientific theory . My hobby idea posits that huge masses can accumulate under the influence of gravity, to the point that they reach a critical capacity, and when that capacity is reached, it is in fact a natural limit beyond which any further accumulation of mass will result in a collapse/bang; an imploding of the crunch followed by a "bounce" as the concentration of the imploding mass reaches natures natural limit of compression.

Given that premise, crunch bangs will be commonplace across infinity and eternity, and the occasional Big Bang will not be a Singularity, but will be considered unremarkable on a grand scale.


235076,

[Zer0]

Implosion!

Very Interesting.

The only hesitation i have with the B.B. Theory is " Inflation " .

Obviously there's Evidence for it, i do Not deny it.

But i Wish there was some Other way of explaining it.

Even if there is one, not sure if i am capable of Unlearning & Relearning.

ps - It is Impossible to Learn, what one Thinks, they already Know!
(Epictetus)

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

The only hesitation i have with the B.B. Theory is " Inflation ".
Obviously there's Evidence for it, i do Not deny it.
But i Wish there was some Other way of explaining it.

Other way of explaining what? Most people cannot describe what it explains. I can't without looking it up.
Has something to do with the universe being measured as more flat and uniform than it would be without inflation.

The part I do know: It is the very early epoch of the universe where the part that is currently our 92 BLY diameter visible universe expands, from a speck whose size has an awful lot of zeros, to about the size of a grapefruit, and it does this exponentially, waaaaay faster than light can go from the center of a grapefruit to the peel.

That is well said. In my version, the "very early epoch of the universe" is just an earlier time in the infinite and eternal ... and that provides a lot of time and space for anything that is possible, to in fact have a time and a place to happen.

At each point in space and time we can ask, is this the place and time for such-and-such? But in that same vane, every moment is the beginning of a new future at every point in the infinite universe, and so the possibilities are not just endless, but are the full dimension of infinite, and always have been.

Human existence in all this vast expanse enables infinity to be reduced to the function of a few brain cells in a tiny location of one individual somewhere in time in the greater universe; a perspective that requires intelligent life that can focus on a tiny moment and place, separate from the grand whole.


236042,

[Zer0]

To Create Space, requires Space,
To Begin Time, requires Time.

Without space & Without time...
There is No Space-Time!

ps - : )

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

To Create Space, requires Space,
To Begin Time, requires Time.

Without space & Without time...
There is No Space-Time!

ps - : )

Einstein,
Space time,
Very fine,
Like vintage wine.


236194,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

... intelligent life that can focus on a tiny moment and place, separate from the grand whole.

It is the ability to focus on the here and now, the present, a single clip in the reel of time. And humanity not only leaves its mark on our planet, but now we have sent our markers out into space.

Do you ever wonder if some distant or future intelligent life form will discover evidence of us by coming across some such artifact?

I'm guessing that we will first be detected by our radio/electromagnetic signals.
... Hello, my name is Bogie. Do you read me?

I know that SETI has been going on since, I think, 2008 ... https://www.seti.org/about


236464,236994,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

I know that SETI has been going on since, I think, 2008

1984

I stand corrected. However, if I let myself imagine SETI as an activity that advanced life forms eventually evolve to carry out, and considering that in an infinite and eternal universe, as I imagine it, there may have been a potentially infinite number of such SETI activities carried out by different evolved life forms, SETI activity would be common throughout the infinite history recorded by life forms everywhere over time.


237514,

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

Let me go on to speculate that a thorough look at the infinite history of the SETI activity throughout time and space could have yielded positive findings if the entire record of such searches were to be examined. By that I mean that though our current search efforts have not been fruitful, such search efforts, carried out by other intelligent life forms across all time, could easily have produced success, only to have been lost and obscured by the great distances of separation throughout the eternal passing of time.


237543,237586,237624,
 

[Bogie_smiles (OP)]

It is true...
the passing of time quickly leaves us behind ...
Making it hard (to impossible) to communicate outside the cone ...
But that doesn't mean that we are alone.
 
And my simple logic suggests to me that the infinity of space and time makes the probability of distant, past, and future intelligent life forms a near certainty. And so it seems to me that the information of such life forms disseminates itself throughout space naturally, by the persistence of light/signals (electromagnetism) that can't help but traverse space.
 
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