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  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
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Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1740 on: 01/01/2025 15:43:35 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 31/12/2024 10:47:38
If bits of another planet were for sale you'd have to consider the initial cost of claiming ownership and occupying it.
The initial cost is to make it valuable enough to be sold in the first place.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1741 on: 01/01/2025 15:53:23 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 31/12/2024 04:39:17
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 30/12/2024 11:51:19
The claim that bitcoin is risk free ignited a debate in the comment section.
Crypto currencies started with idea of avoiding centralized institutions from overly controlling our transactions and taking away some values from those transactions.
When governments start to realize that Bitcoin or other crypto currencies have taken away a significant portion of their power, they will start restricting or even banning it outright. This is the biggest risk of crypto, IMO.
Any form of legitimately sustainable economic effort works by demonetizing valuable resources. At least it must be more effective and efficient than the currently available alternatives. In the case of Bitcoin, it's the Fiat currencies. But it also needs to be better than other crypto currencies, like Ethereum and Dogecoin in the long run, which have seen some improvements in the last several years.
« Last Edit: 02/01/2025 09:23:34 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1742 on: 02/01/2025 09:25:50 »
The longevity revolution: Turning aging into opportunity | Linda Fried, MD, MPH | TEDxBoston
Quote
What if I told you that you?ve been gifted 30 extra years of life? Thirty years that previous generations never had. Let that sink in?an entirely new chapter that reshapes everything: your life and our societies and our economies, and what it means to live a fulfilling life.   Dean and DeLamar Professor of Public Health
Mailman School of Public Health
Director, Robert N. Butler Columbia Aging Center
Senior Vice President, Columbia University Irving Medical Center

We are getting closer to Longevity Escape Velocity. At least let's spend some time to contemplate what to do about it.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1743 on: 03/01/2025 08:38:55 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 31/12/2024 10:47:38
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 31/12/2024 04:26:10
Land in itself doesn't carry much value, since most land on earth is not occupied. So is land on the moon, Mars, Venus, Ceres, etc.
It all has intrinsic value since everyone has to be somewhere, but that value can be anywhere between $1.5M and 2.5 cents per square meter for habitable land on this planet alone. If bits of another planet were for sale you'd have to consider the initial cost of claiming ownership and occupying it.
Church Sells Land In Heaven | Stand-up Comedy by Daniel Fernandes
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Did you hear about this new investment opportunity? Tell everyone!
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1744 on: 03/01/2025 09:04:37 »
What is Consciousness? | Joscha Bach & Karl Friston
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At 3:09 Curt strikes a the heart of the matter - What is consciousness, where is consciousness, and why is consciousness?
    At 6:12 Karl Friston responds - To be conscious [...] you have to be an agent [...] to be an agent you have to be able to act [...] the capacity to plan. Let's unpack Karl's points in the interests of establishing an axiomatic framework of core principles:
        1) Karl correctly establishes that you have to be an agent. To be an agent, however, you have to have a body... more specifically, a mind-body;
        2) To be able to act, however, you don't need to plan. You need only to associate... to associate experiences intercepted by your mind-body.
    We thus arrive at a most essential ingredient for cognition. Association is the missing ingredient, the primal first cause. Once we factor in association, we have a framework for interpreting all experiences intercepted by mind-bodies (agents) as illusions. [The ability to plan is not primal, it comes later]
    In my own project, I interpret the Feynman diagrams in the context of associations. I conjecture that the tension between the known and the unknown, as manifesting in the quantum void, provides the associations that manifest as virtual particles. The question then becomes, how might association extend beyond the subatomic, to play out in higher-level organisms like cells, neurons, insects, fish, dogs and humans?
    Let's illustrate by way of a simple example: Human mind-bodies, with hands and vocal chords, are equipped with the tools of language and culture. Culture is our top-down causation that provides the associations (experiences) that wire our neuroplastic brains. Other creatures, not equipped as we are, are less predisposed to complex culture and language... but their associations (experiences), nonetheless, continue to wire their neuroplastic brains. What's it like to be a bat? A bird? A dog? Relates directly to the currently emerging field of embodied cognition.
    For more on association as a first principle: Charles Sanders Peirce. On embodied cognition in other kinds of agents (mind-bodies): Jakob von Uexk?ll

A comment to the video
I think the functional block diagram for consciousness I posted before is compatible with the concept of consciousness discussed here.
« Last Edit: 03/01/2025 09:07:27 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1745 on: 08/01/2025 10:38:26 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 02/01/2025 09:25:50
We are getting closer to Longevity Escape Velocity. At least let's spend some time to contemplate what to do about it.

https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-discover-mortality-timer-inside-our-cells/
Quote
Smaller nucleoli slow aging, acting as a ?mortality timer,? while larger nucleoli lead to cell death by destabilizing rDNA.
The secret to cellular youth may lie in maintaining a small nucleolus?a dense structure within the cell nucleus?according to investigators at Weill Cornell Medicine. These findings were uncovered in yeast, a model organism renowned for its role in making bread and beer, yet surprisingly similar to humans at the cellular level.

The study, published Nov. 25 in Nature Aging, may lead to new longevity treatments that could extend human lifespan. It also establishes a mortality timer that reveals how long a cell has left before it dies.

As people get older, they are more likely to develop health conditions, such as cancer, cardiovascular disease and neurodegenerative diseases.

?Aging is the highest risk factor for these diseases,? said Dr. Jessica Tyler, professor of pathology and laboratory medicine at Weill Cornell Medicine. ?Rather than treating each disease separately, a better approach would be to develop a therapeutic or supplement that will delay the onset of diseases by preventing the underlying molecular defects that cause them.? The nucleolus may hold the key.

Small Packages
The nucleus holds the cell?s chromosomes and the nucleolus where the ribosomal DNA (rDNA) is housed. The nucleolus isolates the rDNA which encodes the RNA portions of the ribosomes, the protein-building machinery. The rDNA is one of the most fragile parts of the genome, due to its repetitive nature making it more difficult to maintain and fix if damaged. If damage in the rDNA is not accurately repaired, it can lead to chromosomal rearrangements and cell death.

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1746 on: 08/01/2025 10:43:12 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 31/12/2024 10:47:38
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 31/12/2024 04:26:10
Land in itself doesn't carry much value, since most land on earth is not occupied. So is land on the moon, Mars, Venus, Ceres, etc.
It all has intrinsic value since everyone has to be somewhere, but that value can be anywhere between $1.5M and 2.5 cents per square meter for habitable land on this planet alone. If bits of another planet were for sale you'd have to consider the initial cost of claiming ownership and occupying it.
What's absolutely needed is space. But outer space is much larger than what's needed by every human on earth. The problem is how to turn that space into habitable places.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1747 on: 08/01/2025 23:03:48 »
Easy. Get lots of rock, water, nitrogen  and carbon dioxide, put it in orbit around a small star so that the mean surface temperature is about 290K, then wait several billion years until plants have evolved and converted most of the CO2 into food and oxygen.

Or limit the human population on the planet we already have.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1748 on: 09/01/2025 02:22:16 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 08/01/2025 23:03:48
Easy. Get lots of rock, water, nitrogen  and carbon dioxide, put it in orbit around a small star so that the mean surface temperature is about 290K, then wait several billion years until plants have evolved and converted most of the CO2 into food and oxygen.

Or limit the human population on the planet we already have.
Easy has a specific and practical meaning
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1749 on: 09/01/2025 11:50:00 »
AGI Fallout: Shocking Predictions About Society's Future
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What happens next? Will humans become obsolete? Watch to find out more!

I misspoke around 2:40 and said "up" when I meant "down". Human ability to wield power will go DOWN.

Some comments on the video.
Quote
Most people enjoy living a simple life and have no grand ambitions. And it's kinda scary that delusional workaholics will decide what our future is 😅
Quote
There's one group of people who have everything given to them already. Children. And yet, they are endlessly creative, engaged, active, and curious about the world. It isn't until they get beaten down by educational institutions and jobs that people lose their intrinsic enthusiasm. Would UBI make some people completely useless? Of course, some people will always be completely useless, but I think it would unleash enormous flourishing for most people.

Quote
I got retired 6 years ago. My young daugther complained the other day that I work much more now than I did before retirement. I basically feel a sense of security (provided by the retirement income) and freedom (no bosses, no red tape) so incredibly precious. I believe most people would feel and act the save with Universal Basic Income.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1750 on: 10/01/2025 14:48:56 »
More Proof AI CANNOT Be Controlled

This suggests that AI developers need to understand the universal terminal goal to be internalized into their ASI models. It's the most reliable way to prevent alignment faking.
When we all agree on the universal terminal goal, the only disputes will come from how we get there. This is where scientific method can help giving the answer. When we still disagree on our common terminal goal, no scientific evidence will be enough to resolve the disagreements.
« Last Edit: 10/01/2025 14:53:20 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1751 on: 10/01/2025 17:27:40 »
AI is a tool. What it does is determined by the goal of the user. Therefore no possibility of "goal alignment" because humans compete. 
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1752 on: 11/01/2025 15:27:32 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 10/01/2025 17:27:40
AI is a tool. What it does is determined by the goal of the user. Therefore no possibility of "goal alignment" because humans compete. 
Its developers have more influence than its users.
Humans also cooperate, which is caused by common goals.
Taking goal alignment as a binary value is a false dichotomy. A short term goal in a specific situation can be partially aligned with a longer term goal.
« Last Edit: 11/01/2025 15:30:34 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1753 on: 12/01/2025 00:02:13 »
AGI and the "Age of Human Disempowerment"
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The latest AI News. Learn about LLMs, Gen AI and get ready for the rollout of AGI. Wes Roth covers the latest happenings in the world of OpenAI, Google, Anthropic, NVIDIA and Open Source AI.
UBI can be a short term solution. But we need a more sustainable solution for the long term.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2025 07:36:02 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1754 on: 12/01/2025 08:19:08 »
Zuckerberg's STUNNING Statement: ?AI Will Write MOST Software Soon"
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Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg thinks Meta will be shifting to an agentic workforce in 2025, but he doesn't think his employees will be replaced... Watch to find out more!


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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1755 on: 14/01/2025 02:23:00 »
Groundbreaking Experiment Forced Organisms To Become Symbiotic
Hello and welcome! My name is Anton and in this video, we will talk about an intriguing experiment that created endosymbiosis
Quote

0:00 Endosymbiosis in a nutshell
1:50 Examples
3:00 Fungal endosymbiosis
5:35 Questions that need answering
6:10 Incredible new experiment
6:48 What fungus was used
8:00 What the experiment was trying to do
9:30 Successful union and reproduction
11:15 Major discoveries 13:00 Conclusions

It seems that humans will be forced to form mutualistic symbiosis with ASI and robotics just like how evolutionary process had formed us in the first place.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1756 on: 14/01/2025 02:28:04 »
Cyborgs Among Us: The Future of Humanity | SLICE SCIENCE | FULL DOC
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Explore the rise of real-life cyborgs blending technology with the human body to expand senses and abilities. Meet Neil Harbisson, the world's first recognized cyborg, who hears colors through an antenna in his head. Discover how this movement is redefining humanity's future and challenging ethical boundaries.

Documentary: Cyborgs: Human Machines
Directed by: Luisa Wawrzinek
Production: Hoferichter & Jacobs, SWR, WDR
#Cyborgs #Transhumanism #Biohacking #FutureTechnology #NeilHarbisson #HumanAugmentation #Innovation #EthicsInTech #CyborgLife #techrevolution
Humans will merge with machines.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1757 on: 14/01/2025 21:59:05 »
Goal Misgeneralization: How a Tiny Change Could End Everything
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This video explores how YOU, YES YOU, are a case of misalignment with respect to evolution's implicit optimization objective. We also show an example of goal misgeneralization in a simple AI system, and explore how deceptive alignment shares similar features and may arise in future, far more powerful AI systems.

More people are being aware that we need to identify the correct terminal goal to be  internalized into the future ASI before it's too late.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1758 on: 15/01/2025 06:27:45 »
OpenAI Explains Why NOBODY Is Ready For Whats Coming?
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00:00 - AI Changes Everything
00:19 - Global AI Gaps
00:48 - Sam Altman Predictions
02:15 - AI Joins Workforce
03:35 - Intelligence Cost Drops
04:47 - AI Costs Falling
05:11 - DeepSeek V3 Impact
07:00 - Desk Jobs Replaced
08:14 - Higher Business Margins
09:29 - Cognitive vs Physical
10:46 - AI Physical Labor
12:00 - Meaning Economy Rises
13:10 - Healthcare Revolutionized
14:25 - Longevity Through AI
16:00 - AlphaFold Speeds Research
20:35 - AI Overton Window
21:29 - 2030 Transformations Ahead
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1759 on: 15/01/2025 09:31:54 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 14/01/2025 21:59:05
evolution's implicit optimization objective.
Wrong. There is no objective in evolution.

Evolution happens at random, and competition tends towards optimisation in any particular ecological (or economic)  niche, by elimination of the less successful.
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