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  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
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Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1760 on: 15/01/2025 14:50:08 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 15/01/2025 09:31:54
Wrong. There is no objective in evolution.
There is. It's to be better at survival.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1761 on: 15/01/2025 14:59:45 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 15/01/2025 09:31:54
Evolution happens at random, and competition tends towards optimisation in any particular ecological (or economic)  niche, by elimination of the less successful.
Mutations might happen randomly. Although molecular evidence show that genetic codes have different stability due to their position in the chromosomes. Error correction mechanisms also make some genes less likely to suffer permanent random mutations.
But mutation is just one part of evolutionary process. It's followed by natural selection, which is not random, unless you are willing to ignore all the information about the environmental conditions.
« Last Edit: 15/01/2025 15:04:26 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1762 on: 15/01/2025 15:06:55 »
How to feed 10 billion people ? without destroying nature | Andy Jarvis | TED
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Feeding 10 billion people without wrecking the planet means rethinking protein, from plant-based and fermented foods to lab-grown meat that tastes like the real thing. Presenting an exciting menu of sustainable options, food futurist Andy Jarvis highlights innovations, investments and policies that could help drastically lower our carbon footprint and provide everyone with the nourishment they need ? without telling anyone what to eat. (Recorded at TED Countdown Dilemma Series: Food on June 6, 2024)

This might be necessary for medium term solution. But there's a more efficient solution for food production. Which is making human body capable of synthesizing food. We can think about synthetic organelle, or symbiotic bacteria, or even non-organic things.

 
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 14/01/2025 02:23:00
It seems that humans will be forced to form mutualistic symbiosis with ASI and robotics just like how evolutionary process had formed us in the first place.
« Last Edit: 15/01/2025 15:19:55 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1763 on: 15/01/2025 16:35:24 »
The Golden Age of the Middleman
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The art of good business is being a good middleman?


The biggest companies that you have never heard of make billions of dollars every year by inserting themselves as wholesalers, distributors, licensors or aggregators getting between you and the factories that make your stuff.


The only problem is? everybody kinda hates middlemen? which is why ENTIRE industries have been created from the ground up to ?cut them out? by offering direct to consumer, peer to peer, direct selling, disruptive, streamlined, outlet, platformed solutions to make consuming? everything? an easier, faster and cheaper experience.


The only  problem is? it never really works, and in our venture capital fueled rush to cut out the middleman, we have just created even bigger ones.
The middleman will be replaced by machines, which will also replace the factories that make stuffs.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1764 on: 18/01/2025 17:26:14 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 15/01/2025 14:50:08
Quote from: alancalverd on 15/01/2025 09:31:54
Wrong. There is no objective in evolution.
There is. It's to be better at survival.

An outcome is not an objective.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1765 on: 20/01/2025 03:31:09 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 18/01/2025 17:26:14
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 15/01/2025 14:50:08
Quote from: alancalverd on 15/01/2025 09:31:54
Wrong. There is no objective in evolution.
There is. It's to be better at survival.

An outcome is not an objective.

Objective is preferred. Outcome is not always preferred.
Sometimes evolutionary process produces suboptimal outcomes, or even something that's worse than before.
In the perspective of the survivors, being better at survival is preferred. Their perspective is what matters.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1766 on: 20/01/2025 03:32:08 »
Artificial Super Intelligence (ASI) is imminent - Cognitive Hyper Abundance is coming
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1767 on: 20/01/2025 14:27:05 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 20/01/2025 03:31:09
In the perspective of the survivors, being better at survival is preferred. Their perspective is what matters.

Time doesn't flow backwards. Neither does evolution. The test of survival cannot precede the evolution of the object being tested. So evolution cannot have an objective.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1768 on: 20/01/2025 16:29:15 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 20/01/2025 14:27:05
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 20/01/2025 03:31:09
In the perspective of the survivors, being better at survival is preferred. Their perspective is what matters.

Time doesn't flow backwards. Neither does evolution. The test of survival cannot precede the evolution of the object being tested. So evolution cannot have an objective.
Only conscious entities can have a goal or objective. Until then, the improvement in survival can be considered as merely side effects.
The effects of evolutionary process in an environment can be seen more clearly by contrasting with conditions without evolutionary process. The latter will be extremely less likely to cause improvements in survival.
« Last Edit: 20/01/2025 16:44:47 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1769 on: 20/01/2025 17:28:35 »
So in your opinion everything that evolves is conscious?
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 20/01/2025 16:29:15
The effects of evolutionary process in an environment can be seen more clearly by contrasting with conditions without evolutionary process. The latter will be extremely less likely to cause improvements in survival.
Even if the environment doesn't change, and if the things that live in it are not the first living things ever, they must have evolved. I cannot imagine any environment in which evolution has not happened. With the possible exception of the United States presidency.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1770 on: 22/01/2025 11:44:25 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 20/01/2025 17:28:35
So in your opinion everything that evolves is conscious?
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 20/01/2025 16:29:15
The effects of evolutionary process in an environment can be seen more clearly by contrasting with conditions without evolutionary process. The latter will be extremely less likely to cause improvements in survival.
Even if the environment doesn't change, and if the things that live in it are not the first living things ever, they must have evolved. I cannot imagine any environment in which evolution has not happened. With the possible exception of the United States presidency.
Consciousness is not a binary quality.
To be alive sustainably, they must have some level of consciousness, sensing their environment, distinguishing between food and predator, avoid dangers.
« Last Edit: 22/01/2025 12:06:59 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1771 on: 22/01/2025 12:04:57 »
OpenAI's LEAKED "Super Agents": The End of Human Work

Here's some comments.
Quote
Big deal. I have never ever wanted to work, i just had to and even sometimes i had to say that i liked my work. Now i really dont care anymore. I retired 3 years ago. Though at the same time i really do not envy young people. Now i do not know what my grandkids are gonna be and do. Kinda scary and at the same time fascinating. Humans have that feeling when we are facing something unknown.
Quote
Jobs aren't going anywhere, it will just be a matter of whether they are paid or not. Who knows what economic model we will end up with. I just hope it's not the current capitalist system we have now or we're all screwed, and I say this as a capitalist myself. AI will initially just make existing employees more efficient, but when we reach true AGI why would companies need to hire people at all? Tech always gets cheaper, faster, and more efficient. When people have to compete with AI for labor salaries are going to go south like a duck in winter. Even before that we will see a lowering of entry barriers for jobs and previously high paid positions will be filled by everyone looking to make more money. This will cause salaries to start to average across the board to a certain degree. Unfortunately, your debt will stay the same, so good luck paying off that $500k home when you make 1/10th as much. Do people think corporations will share the enormous wealth they are about to receive? They certainly haven't during this period of massive inflation. Corporations have reported record profits, but wages have stayed stagnant.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1772 on: 24/01/2025 10:38:49 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 12/01/2025 08:19:08
Zuckerberg's STUNNING Statement: ?AI Will Write MOST Software Soon"

The writing is on the wall

OpenAI's New LEAKED Coding Tool: The End Of Software Engineers

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1773 on: 26/01/2025 06:17:00 »
Artificial Intelligence is Advancing at a Frightening Rate...
Does AI have subjective experience?
How should sentience and consciousness be defined?
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1774 on: 26/01/2025 12:45:43 »
What Everyone Gets Wrong about AI
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Most politicians totally misunderstand the trouble that artificial intelligence is going to bring. This isn?t a race for profit, it?s a race for power. And that power will be in the hands of a few very rich people. Does that sound like a good future?

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1775 on: 29/01/2025 01:46:50 »
Efficiency is a universal instrumental goal.
OpenAI's nightmare: Deepseek R1 on a Raspberry Pi
Quote
DeepSeek R1 runs on a Pi 5, but don't believe every headline you read.

Contents:

00:00 - OpenAI's Nightmare
01:00 - What can a Pi 5 do, really?
01:39 - 671b on AmpereOne
02:00 - Pi 5 14b - CPU inference
02:20 - Pi 5 14b - GPU inference
03:05 - GPUs on Pi (and year of the Arm PC)
03:37 - Still in an AI bubble
This new advancements will make embodiment of AI grows faster than prior expectations.
Now that AGI is seemingly available for most people in the near future, it will be almost impossible to ensure safety without even mentioning the universal terminal goal. At least it can make some AI users with intention of using it maliciously to reconsider their actions and their own terminal goals. Some of them might even eagerly realign to the universal terminal goal.
« Last Edit: 29/01/2025 01:51:06 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1776 on: 31/01/2025 13:26:55 »
If everyone can get anything that they want, what should they want?
David Hume concluded that the ultimate goal is to get pleasure. He didn't seem to understand what the underlying mechanism/chemistry that produces pleasure and other feelings like pain.
If everyone can synthesize and consume dopamine by themselves as they will, should they do that?
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1777 on: 02/02/2025 08:27:12 »
The Acceleration Is Still Accelerating: Why Every AI Prediction Was Too Conservative (even mine)

I found in the comments section.
Quote
I hope you are right about this stuff man. My wife just got diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. Im hoping that AI will cure this sh1t within the next 10 years. Its the only things that is giving me hope. They have some treatments to slow it down but she needs to be cured she loves hiking and being active and now shes getting fatigue all the time and shes just so sad. It breaks my heart :( ...... I hope AI can fix this

Thanks for making these videos.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1778 on: 02/02/2025 11:12:50 »
AI was developed partially in the hope of solving the problem of aging. How did it occur in the first place?


Simulating the Evolution of Aging
Quote
00:00 Introduction and outline
00:43 In which I beg for money
03:05 Simulation rules
04:09 Analyzing lifespans with no aging
09:19 Simple death genes
14:43 Mutation accumulation
26:58 Antagonistic pleiotropy
29:59 Review
30:21 Recommendations
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1779 on: 02/02/2025 19:38:27 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 02/02/2025 11:12:50
AI was developed partially in the hope of solving the problem of aging.
What problem? Any system that is subject to wear and tear will eventually cease to function. Any system that involves (indeed relies on) replication and replacement with no external blueprint will gradually acquire errors that may eventually inhibit some critical internal function.
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