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  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
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Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #240 on: 21/03/2021 13:24:52 »
The dispute seems to come from disagreement on the definition of intelligence itself.  Nick Bostrom seems to use standard definition of intelligence, like in IQ test.
Finding someone with high IQ score but has silly goals is not that difficult.
On the other hand, Zach Shaw expected to get something more from intelligence.
« Last Edit: 21/03/2021 21:37:21 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #241 on: 21/03/2021 23:05:48 »
IMO, intelligence is just a tool to help achieving the goals of conscious system. IQ test was supposed to give a value representing human's general intelligence, independent of their possession of common or specific knowledge. Someone can still get high IQ score without knowing much about history, calculus, chemistry or physics  theory. We might want to assign IQ score to information processing ability, such as thinking speed, memory capacity, and memory reliability, which are analogous to computer specifications. But nonetheless, due to design limitations of the tests, scoring in IQ test may require some other abilities, such as vision, motoric dexterity, written language, basic logic and arithmetic, etc.
A smart Indian or Japanese kid may get a low IQ score if the test was written in Russian or Arabic language, and vice versa. Someone with tremor may have hard time writing down the answers to the test sheet. Someone with impaired vision may face difficulty in reading the question or seeing the pictures to recognize the patterns.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2021 22:09:38 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #242 on: 23/03/2021 07:50:16 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/03/2021 22:32:01
This article tells us what we know about consciousness.

http://m.nautil.us/issue/98/mind/consciousness-is-just-a-feeling
Although I agree with most of the contents presented in the article, I disagree with the title. Just like intelligence; feeling, emotion, instinct, and reflex are all tools to help achieving the goals of conscious agents.
Their main differences are in the processing speed, accuracy, precision, and energy requirement to proceed. They determine actions taken by conscious agents as responds to stimuli.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2021 22:06:02 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #243 on: 23/03/2021 22:20:20 »
As I mentioned earlier, only conscious systems can have a goal. They can choose their own goals, or assigned to them by other conscious syatems. In the first case, it means that they are determined by chains of events surrounding the systems and received as stimuli.
I also mentioned about minimum requirements for a system to be called conscious. It must have parts serving the function of virtualization of objective reality , including its own representation in its virtual world, which we often call self awareness. To do that, it needs some sensing mechanisms, some memory to store the results and convert them into its internal model. It must also have actuation function, which gives it access to modify or manipulate its real world environment.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2021 22:43:55 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #244 on: 23/03/2021 22:54:33 »
Those inputs, outputs, and internal processing parts may come in various accuracy and precision, in both space and time dimensions. Improvements in each direction come with costs, hence there would be some trade offs in  balancing resources to build them.
For example, a visual input can have mega pixels resolution, with billions of colors for each pixels, and update rate of hundreds of frames per second. It would come with enormous cost, but for some situations the benefits can overcome it.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #245 on: 25/03/2021 07:49:14 »
https://physicsworld.com/a/a-million-years-into-the-future-why-you-need-a-dose-of-very-deep-thinking/
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The Greek philosopher Plato once imagined a city that provides full justice to its citizens. Setting out his ideas in the Republic almost 2500 years ago, Plato did not, however, think that such a city could ever be realized. Radical (and surely unachievable) transformations in education, culture and government would be required to establish and sustain it. “Ridiculous,” Plato concluded.

In a similar vein, the US cultural anthropologist Vincent Ialenti envisions a fictional city whose citizens have been trained to think so that humans don’t need to flee the planet to survive. So utopian is the picture that Ialenti – writing in his new book Deep Time Reckoning – calls it “absurd”. Yet that notion is no less absurd, he continues, than the way humans are now acting, “careening toward an Anthropocene cliff”.
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Climate-change predictions, even for 2050, seem hopelessly far in the future, and tainted by politics, guesswork and subjectivity. Thinking about the present seems more do-able, while thinking about tens or hundreds of thousands of years in the future appears starry-eyed and abstract. But Ialenti believes the exact opposite is true. What’s abstract (in the sense of detached from reality) is what Ialenti calls “a manic fixation on the present”, and not being able to think about humanity thousands of years hence.

Ialenti is less interested in the conclusions reached by the Finnish experts than by their audacious aims, which are to develop methods to break free from what he calls our “shallow time discipline”. He then tries to devise ways to retrain our habits to encourage humans to think long-term; for him, Deep Time Reckoning is not a stale academic treatise but more of a “practical toolkit”.


This toolkit includes high-school civics classes devoted to teaching long-term developments: of the universe since the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago; of Earth since 4.5 billion years ago; of Earth’s life, dinosaurs and humans; and of the evolution of languages and technologies. It envisions school pupils reading about futuristic visions by Ray Kurzweil and Marxist descriptions of world utopias.
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The critical point
Plato meant the Republic to be a beacon for humans to think about justice in the present, not as the blueprint for an actual city to be realized in the future. After all, if you head straight towards a lighthouse, you usually end up on the rocks.

Somewhere in deep time looms a catastrophe that we don’t yet have the imagination to envision, nor the will to confront. Ialenti thinks he finds in the Finnish nuclear-risk experts glimmerings of what it might take to cultivate the human behaviour needed to do so. Humanity’s long-range hope, Ialenti suggests, hangs on what we might call the Finlandization of the planet.

Finding and working towards a universal utopia may sound absurd, yet it is not more absurd than the way humans are now acting.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #246 on: 25/03/2021 11:01:13 »
A great insight from Elon Musk.

* 20210325_175312.jpg (511.77 kB . 1692x1480 - viewed 5539 times)
« Last Edit: 26/03/2021 06:29:08 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #247 on: 25/03/2021 14:19:58 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 23/03/2021 22:20:20
It must also have actuation function, which gives it access to modify or manipulate its real world environment.
Systems with working input and processing parts only, are usually not considered conscious since they lack of actuation functionality. Some examples are someone dreaming in their sleep, or a brain in a vat.
But the boundary might be blur. There are dream walkers. Someone under hypnosis can still follow some simple orders. Brain in the vat can still manipulate the real world indirectly by manipulating electrochemical signals being read by the machine used by the researchers to study the brain. Theoretically, the brain can manipulate the response of the researchers to do things that it wants.
Approaching from the other side, an otherwise normal person locked inside a hermetically sealed coffin buried miles underground, or left in interstellar space. Nothing he can do to change his environment.
« Last Edit: 25/03/2021 22:39:16 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #248 on: 25/03/2021 22:49:23 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 23/03/2021 22:54:33
For example, a visual input can have mega pixels resolution, with billions of colors for each pixels, and update rate of hundreds of frames per second. It would come with enormous cost, but for some situations the benefits can overcome it.
Update rate of visual input processing in average humans is around 24 frames per second. Scan rate of CRT TV is 30 fps, makes the transitions between frames imperceptible by human, but can be captured by high speed camera. Partially unconscious persons may have lower update rate. How low can it be until we call them no longer conscious? Once per second? minute? hour? day? week?
Lower update rate, which means lower temporal resolution, reduces conciousness level. So does lower spatial resolution, and chromatic resolution. Normal humans are blind to infrared as well as ultraviolet light. Having access to sense them can give us better accuracy and precision of our model of our environment. It means that our consciousness level can be increased using some tools.
« Last Edit: 26/03/2021 05:06:32 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #249 on: 26/03/2021 06:39:49 »
Obtaining a value to represent general level of consciousness will involve combining many independent parameters into single axis using some set of rules. It's like reducing vector dimensions which is explained intuitively using helpful visualizations in this video.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #250 on: 26/03/2021 06:49:20 »
Why humans run the world | Yuval Noah Harari
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Seventy thousand years ago, our human ancestors were insignificant animals, just minding their own business in a corner of Africa with all the other animals. But now, few would disagree that humans dominate planet Earth; we've spread to every continent, and our actions determine the fate of other animals (and possibly Earth itself). How did we get from there to here? Historian Yuval Noah Harari suggests a surprising reason for the rise of humanity.
The universal utopia based on universal terminal goal provides the timeless story required to unify all conscious agents and organize their actions to help achieving common goals, regardless of their differences in physical traits.
« Last Edit: 26/03/2021 13:46:25 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #251 on: 26/03/2021 11:59:11 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 21/03/2021 07:36:55
A commonly cited thought experiment to describe orthogonality thesis is a superintelligent machine whose terminal goal is to produce paper clips as many as possible. It's supposed to show that intelligence and terminal goal can be independent to each other.
Nonetheless, the survival rate of conscious systems depend on the alignment between their terminal goal and their own survival. The survival rate is at lowest point when the terminal goal is diametrically opposed to their survival. It's highest when the terminal goal is perfectly aligned to their survival, which means that their own survival is set as their terminal goal. Everything else is in between those two extremes.
In the case of paper clip maker superintelligent machine, the terminal goal is clearly not its own survival, but it's not diametrically opposed either, hence it lies in between. It means that it cannot be the most efficient system possible to survive, which means that it is in a disadvantaged position when it has to compete with other conscious systems with similar superintelligence, but less burdens unrelated to their survival.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #252 on: 26/03/2021 23:06:02 »
In The Selfish Gene, Richard Dawkins has analyzed evolution of biological entity from the point of view of its basic replicating information unit, which is gene.
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As to the unit of selection: "One internally consistent logical picture is that the unit of replication is the gene,...and the organism is one kind of ...entity on which selection acts directly."[30] Dawkins proposed the matter without a distinction between 'unit of replication' and 'unit of selection' that he made elsewhere: "the fundamental unit of selection, and therefore of self-interest, is not the species, nor the group, nor even strictly the individual. It is the gene, the unit of heredity."[31] However, he continues in a later chapter:

"On any sensible view of the matter Darwinian selection does not work on genes directly. ...The important differences between genes emerge only in their effects. The technical word phenotype is used for the bodily manifestation of a gene, the effect that a gene has on the body...Natural selection favours some genes rather than others not because of the nature of the genes themselves, but because of their consequences—their phenotypic effects...But we shall now see that the phenotypic effects of a gene need to be thought of as all the effects that it has on the world. ...The phenotypic effects of a gene are the tools by which it levers itself into the next generation. All I am going to add is that the tools may reach outside the individual body wall...Examples that spring to mind are artefacts like beaver dams, bird nests, and caddis houses."
— Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene, Chapter 13, pp. 234, 235, 238
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #253 on: 27/03/2021 03:29:28 »
The article continues.
Quote
Dawkins' later formulation is in his book The Extended Phenotype (1982), where the process of selection is taken to involve every possible phenotypical effect of a gene.

Stephen Jay Gould finds Dawkins' position tries to have it both ways:[32]

"Dawkins claims to prefer genes and to find greater insight in this formulation. But he allows that you or I might prefer organisms—and it really doesn't matter."
— Stephen Jay Gould, The Structure of Evolutionary Theory, pp. 640-641

The view of The Selfish Gene is that selection based upon groups and populations is rare compared to selection on individuals. Although supported by Dawkins and by many others, this claim continues to be disputed.[33][34] While naïve versions of group selectionism have been disproved, more sophisticated formulations make accurate predictions in some cases while positing selection at higher levels.[35] Both sides agree that very favourable genes are likely to prosper and replicate if they arise and both sides agree that living in groups can be an advantage to the group members. The conflict arises in part over defining concepts:

"Cultural evolutionary theory, however, has suffered from an overemphasis on the experiences and behaviors of individuals at the expense of acknowledging complex group organization...Many important behaviors related to the success and function of human societies are only properly defined at the level of groups".[34]
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #254 on: 27/03/2021 05:05:01 »
Gene centric view of evolution has its own merit in explaining life, and answered many questions arose from its alternatives, such as altruism. But it has its own limitations.
As a basic information unit, a gene has no ability to make a plan. It can't have preference either, hence it can't have its own goal. It just appears that it tends to survive while it can, which sounds like anthropic principle.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #255 on: 27/03/2021 05:51:53 »
A random mutation can cause a gene to mutate into another gene, duplicate, or be destroyed.
Its effect to the phenotype depends on its activation, which is affected by other genes.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/rabbit-handstand-front-paws-gene-defect-video/amp?__twitter_impression=true

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A gene defect may make rabbits do handstands instead of hop
To move quickly, some rabbits throw up their back legs and walk on their front paws.

Some rabbits walk on their front paws in a strange gait that is the result of a mutation in one gene, a study finds. The protein made by that gene may help rabbits coordinate their limbs.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #256 on: 27/03/2021 07:23:23 »
Another limitation occurs in sophisticated systems capable of gene editing. The genes will merely be their tools to achieve their goals. Helpful genes will thrive, while harmful ones will be removed. Determining good and bad genes is done from the point of view of the complex systems editing them.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #257 on: 27/03/2021 11:51:14 »
We usually analyze the cosmos starting from individual human point of view, because it feels more natural, easy and convenient.
Biological systems with lower organizational level than individual, such as organs, tissues, or cells, are not sophisticated enough to simulate the universe. On the other hand, superorganism systems which consist of multiple individual specimens are usually loosely defined, and only have limited resources dedicated to simulate the universe, at least until recently. Think about insect colonies, wolf packs, human tribes, governments of cities, countries, organized religions, or corporations. Traditionally, their update rates are much lower than individual organisms.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #258 on: 27/03/2021 12:21:33 »
Though human brains may have adequate resources to simulate some parts of the universe, their existences depend on other organs forming the human individuals. Hence their expressions represent the individuals as a whole, not merely the brain as an organ.
Even when viewed from individual level, not everyone has the capability to view the world from other system's point of view. Majority of species known to exist don't seem to have such ability.
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Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #259 on: 27/03/2021 13:24:36 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 26/03/2021 11:59:11
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 21/03/2021 07:36:55
A commonly cited thought experiment to describe orthogonality thesis is a superintelligent machine whose terminal goal is to produce paper clips as many as possible. It's supposed to show that intelligence and terminal goal can be independent to each other.
Nonetheless, the survival rate of conscious systems depend on the alignment between their terminal goal and their own survival. The survival rate is at lowest point when the terminal goal is diametrically opposed to their survival. It's highest when the terminal goal is perfectly aligned to their survival, which means that their own survival is set as their terminal goal. Everything else is in between those two extremes.
In the case of paper clip maker superintelligent machine, the terminal goal is clearly not its own survival, but it's not diametrically opposed either, hence it lies in between. It means that it cannot be the most efficient system possible to survive, which means that it is in a disadvantaged position when it has to compete with other conscious systems with similar superintelligence, but less burdens unrelated to their survival.
Genetic or memetic point of view provide the minimum limit of system's complexity to analize evolutionary process. On the other hand, the universal consciousness derived from universal terminal goal provides the maximum limit.
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