The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. New Theories
  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 26 27 [28] 29 30 ... 101   Go Down

Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

  • 2004 Replies
  • 689766 Views
  • 3 Tags

0 Members and 247 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    90.5%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #540 on: 09/09/2021 07:43:48 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 08/09/2021 01:34:55
What makes intelligent beings acts differently from non-intelligent things? How do you distinguish between actions that are done based on intelligent decisions and non-intelligent ones?
Intelligent beings make decisions after evaluated possible options, which may have complex relationships with their consequences. It requires capacities related to intelligence, such as memory quantity and fidelity, data processing speed, and efficient algorithms.
Less intelligent beings can only solve simpler problems.

Good chess players make many bad moves. They just make those moves in their minds, so they don't count. Many brilliant chess moves may look like stupid moves at a glance, such as sacrificing queen.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2021 07:50:16 by hamdani yusuf »
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline Just thinking

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1009
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 144 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #541 on: 09/09/2021 10:54:20 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/09/2021 07:43:48
Good chess players make many bad moves. They just make those moves in their minds, so they don't count. Many brilliant chess moves may look like stupid moves at a glance, such as sacrificing queen.
But in the real world we don't sacrifice people for germs. Having said that there are people in the world that have no more value than a germ.
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    90.5%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #542 on: 09/09/2021 13:14:26 »
If your goal doesn't need sacrifices, it's not important enough.
But we often see unnecessary sacrifices, just to make a goal look important. All while doing nothing to make the goal more achievable. Or even worse, making it harder to achieve it.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2021 15:14:39 by hamdani yusuf »
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline Just thinking

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1009
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 144 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #543 on: 09/09/2021 13:25:21 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/09/2021 13:14:26
If your goal doesn't need sacrifices, it's not important enough.
There is always sacrifice with everything we do such as time.
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    90.5%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #544 on: 13/09/2021 12:26:13 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 09/09/2021 13:25:21
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/09/2021 13:14:26
If your goal doesn't need sacrifices, it's not important enough.
There is always sacrifice with everything we do such as time.

sacrifice:
Quote
an act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy.
What do you sacrifice time for?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline Just thinking

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1009
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 144 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #545 on: 13/09/2021 12:36:32 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/09/2021 13:14:26
If your goal doesn't need sacrifices, it's not important enough.
We sacrifice time for what we consider important. This sounds like catch 22 again.
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    90.5%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #546 on: 14/09/2021 05:55:53 »

Quote from: Just thinking on 13/09/2021 12:36:32
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/09/2021 13:14:26
If your goal doesn't need sacrifices, it's not important enough.
We sacrifice time for what we consider important. This sounds like catch 22 again.
Our time is expended whether or not we do something important with it.

So when you said
Quote from: Just thinking on 09/09/2021 13:25:21
There is always sacrifice with everything we do such as time.
What we really sacrifice are other things that we could have done but we must abandon or postpone because of the things that we are doing.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline Just thinking

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1009
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 144 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #547 on: 15/09/2021 12:19:49 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 14/09/2021 05:55:53
What we really sacrifice are other things that we could have done but we must abandon or postpone because of the things that we are doing.
We need to shift all of our time to the important things that make the sacrifices worthwhile.
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    90.5%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #548 on: 15/09/2021 18:10:34 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 15/09/2021 12:19:49
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 14/09/2021 05:55:53
What we really sacrifice are other things that we could have done but we must abandon or postpone because of the things that we are doing.
We need to shift all of our time to the important things that make the sacrifices worthwhile.
How would you decide which thing is more important than others?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline Just thinking

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1009
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 144 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #549 on: 15/09/2021 18:20:54 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 15/09/2021 18:10:34
How would you decide which thing is more important than others?
We must prioritise and coordinate all the things that matter.
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    90.5%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #550 on: 16/09/2021 03:25:53 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 15/09/2021 18:20:54
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 15/09/2021 18:10:34
How would you decide which thing is more important than others?
We must prioritise and coordinate all the things that matter.
That's what I asked. How would you prioritize them? What's the justification for sacrificing one thing over the others?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline Just thinking

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1009
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 144 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #551 on: 16/09/2021 08:08:54 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/09/2021 03:25:53
How would you prioritize them? What's the justification for sacrificing one thing over the others?
The things that matter are the important things that we must prioritise. The most important things are the needs we have to sustain our lives food before alcohol clothing before sigerattes rent before holidays tools before toys. Common sense must be in place ahead of fun and games.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: hamdani yusuf

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    90.5%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #552 on: 16/09/2021 11:46:07 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 16/09/2021 08:08:54
The most important things are the needs we have to sustain our lives food before alcohol clothing before sigerattes rent before holidays tools before toys.
Let's make explicit what assumptions we have to make in making that statement above.
Whose lives should we try to preserve? Is it our own self as individual? What do you think about altruistic behaviors?
Is there something more important than your own life?
Why sustaining lives is considered as good thing?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline Just thinking

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1009
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 144 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #553 on: 16/09/2021 12:17:25 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/09/2021 11:46:07
Let's make explicit what assumptions we have to make in making that statement above.
Whose lives should we try to preserve? Is it our own self as individual? What do you think about altruistic behaviors?
Is there something more important than your own life?
Why sustaining lives is considered as good thing?
I think altruistic actions are important and one should always accommodate kindness and support others. The problem arises when supporting others outside of our own family create less than your expectations for your own loved ones this statement supports the old saying family comes first. Charity is possible by means of surplus and available time, money and goods.
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    90.5%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #554 on: 16/09/2021 12:42:27 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 16/09/2021 12:17:25
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/09/2021 11:46:07
Let's make explicit what assumptions we have to make in making that statement above.
Whose lives should we try to preserve? Is it our own self as individual? What do you think about altruistic behaviors?
Is there something more important than your own life?
Why sustaining lives is considered as good thing?
I think altruistic actions are important and one should always accommodate kindness and support others. The problem arises when supporting others outside of our own family create less than your expectations for your own loved ones this statement supports the old saying family comes first. Charity is possible by means of surplus and available time, money and goods.
We need a reliable moral compass to answer those questions with confidence that we won't regret them in the future.
And that compass is the universal terminal goal. There are many other questions we can think of. Let's start with simpler case where family factor is excluded from consideration, since it's balanced for both options in a decision.

Which one is better: Someone sacrificing themself to save their parent, or someone sacrificing themself to save their children? What's the reason?

Here's another: Someone young and healthy sacrificing themself to save their sibling with birth defects, which is physically and mentally disabled, or someone with birth defects, who is physically and mentally disabled, sacrificing themself to save their sibling who is young and healthy? What's the reason?
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 

Offline Just thinking

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1009
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 144 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #555 on: 16/09/2021 13:04:19 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/09/2021 12:42:27
Which one is better: Someone sacrificing themself to save their parent, or someone sacrificing themself to save their children? What's the reason?
This is a very interesting question. My answer to this is actually a reversal as I love my wife and son so much and my first priority is to protect them if I was to die I could not carry out this priority so my answer may sound selfish but I would rather free them first of this dangerous world or at the very least see my son grow to an age where he can protect himself.
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    90.5%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #556 on: 18/09/2021 03:36:50 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 16/09/2021 13:04:19
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/09/2021 12:42:27
Which one is better: Someone sacrificing themself to save their parent, or someone sacrificing themself to save their children? What's the reason?
This is a very interesting question. My answer to this is actually a reversal as I love my wife and son so much and my first priority is to protect them if I was to die I could not carry out this priority so my answer may sound selfish but I would rather free them first of this dangerous world or at the very least see my son grow to an age where he can protect himself.
The answer doesn't have to be one fit for all. It may depend on other factors not mentioned in the question. For example, if the parents are already very old, with degenerative diseases, and no longer have the capacity to survive on their own, then sacrificing their children to extend their declining lives doesn't seem to be wise. 
The sacrifice itself doesn't have to be an acute action. It can also be chronic, such as cross subsidy. Less resources are given to less productive citizen, while more resources are given to more productive citizen, at least potentially.
« Last Edit: 18/09/2021 19:14:45 by hamdani yusuf »
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



Offline Just thinking

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1009
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 144 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #557 on: 18/09/2021 08:32:59 »
Quote from: Curious Cat on 17/09/2021 21:29:57
I've got a joke for U: Why can a good Muslim have 4 wives? A whole set, of 'em.
So he can have a blonde, a brunette, a blackette and a redhead.
That's a good system. That's what every man needs. "Variety is the spice of life".
And they say that a man needs a good workout 4 times a week, and that's the best kind. Right?
"Strength thru joy" and all that.

But/t what I'm really trying to say, to U, is that warriors are not concerned with petty concerns/questions,
and I'm more of a pre-Socratic/natural philosopher, and I have a Spartan morality.

Is this like something U want/ed?
I like your philosophy and you have revealed your nature quite well. As for the four wives, I asked my wife and she said no I can still dream. I like the parable of your heart on the left and your brain on the right maybe not a parable at all.
Logged
 

Offline Just thinking

  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ******
  • 1009
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Thanked: 144 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #558 on: 18/09/2021 08:43:08 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 18/09/2021 03:36:50
The answer doesn't have to be one fit for all. It may depend on other factors not mentioned in the question. For example, if the parents are already very old, with degenerative diseases, and no longer have the capacity to survive on their own, then sacrificing their children to extend their declining lives doesn't seem to be wise. 
This is true hopefully the children are not so young and have already proven that they can look after themselves this type of situation can give some peace of mind to the one about to pass.
Logged
 

Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • 11801
  • Activity:
    90.5%
  • Thanked: 285 times
Re: Universal Utopia?
« Reply #559 on: 18/09/2021 19:18:07 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 18/09/2021 08:32:59
Quote from: Curious Cat on 17/09/2021 21:29:57
I've got a joke for U: Why can a good Muslim have 4 wives? A whole set, of 'em.
So he can have a blonde, a brunette, a blackette and a redhead.
That's a good system. That's what every man needs. "Variety is the spice of life".
And they say that a man needs a good workout 4 times a week, and that's the best kind. Right?
"Strength thru joy" and all that.

But/t what I'm really trying to say, to U, is that warriors are not concerned with petty concerns/questions,
and I'm more of a pre-Socratic/natural philosopher, and I have a Spartan morality.

Is this like something U want/ed?
I like your philosophy and you have revealed your nature quite well. As for the four wives, I asked my wife and she said no I can still dream. I like the parable of your heart on the left and your brain on the right maybe not a parable at all.
There are some parts of India where a woman can have many husbands so they can share economic burden.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
 



  • Print
Pages: 1 ... 26 27 [28] 29 30 ... 101   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags: philosophy  / life  / goals 
 
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.694 seconds with 69 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.