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  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
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Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #660 on: 08/06/2022 19:14:10 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 01/06/2022 10:42:02
To say that something has a positive contribution, we need to know the common terminal goal first.
No. It just has to make people happy or healthy.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #661 on: 09/06/2022 13:18:50 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 08/06/2022 19:14:10
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 01/06/2022 10:42:02
To say that something has a positive contribution, we need to know the common terminal goal first.
No. It just has to make people happy or healthy.
So you think that being happy or healthy are the common terminal goal. Why not both?
How do you define happy and healthy? Do they refer to the same things for everyone? If not, what's the difference?
« Last Edit: 09/06/2022 22:54:13 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #662 on: 09/06/2022 22:58:51 »

Quote
Can we live forever in the cloud? Will we ever bend time to our will?

Can we live forever in a machine?

Imagine you pass away but your brain lives on as an android. Well some scientists are working on this already, they are trying to map the ENTIRE brain and upload it to a computer. Dr Josie Peters leads a group of scientists to tell us if we can really live forever.
With all the possibilities that science will provide, it becomes increasingly important to understand about the universal terminal goal and how to achieve it effectively and efficiently. Also identify the obstacles to get there, and how to overcome them.
« Last Edit: 09/06/2022 23:03:53 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #663 on: 13/06/2022 13:51:18 »
Quote
Giving birth is dangerous. Are artificial wombs a solution?
Full ectogenesis is the idea of conceiving a baby in vitro and gestating the child for the entire gestational period of 40 weeks.

We already have partial ectogenesis implemented in neonatal intensive care units across the world from 21 weeks of gestation to full-term. This means almost half of the gestational period required to make a healthy human being can happen outside of the body already.

Traditional natural gestation is very costly, and it's often one of the most dangerous things that many women will choose to do. Artificial wombs allow women to choose where they want to direct their labor and their physical resources, while also not sacrificing having children.

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #664 on: 25/06/2022 10:55:15 »

Quote
How I learned to stop worrying and love Artificial Super Intelligence
I think fears of artificial super intelligence (in pop culture, specifically) are a bit overblown. I lay out my case in this vodeo.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #665 on: 26/06/2022 02:07:40 »
Quote
SpaceX's Starship launch vehicle has the potential to explore the solar system in a bold, new -- and supersized -- way. Planetary scientist Jennifer Heldmann talks about how reusable, large-scale spacecraft like Starship could help humanity achieve its next galactic leaps and usher in a new era of space exploration, from investigating the solar system's many ocean worlds to launching bigger telescopes that can see deeper into the universe.
We know that the existence of the earth is finite, and it will end someday, sooner or later. If we want to outlive the earth, we must start to find a way to live independently from earth. Colonizing Mars is just one of them, which some of us think as the most feasible way.
« Last Edit: 01/07/2022 09:46:11 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #666 on: 01/07/2022 09:48:10 »
Quote
https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/how-did-consciousness-evolve-an-illustrated-guide/

How can we develop an evolutionary theory of consciousness when there is so much disagreement over what consciousness is and which organisms are conscious? Our way of approaching this question takes as its inspiration the way the Hungarian chemist Tibor Gánti tackled a similar problem, the problem of how life (another elusive notion) originated. Gánti started by compiling a list of capacities that, in spite of the different views about the nature of life, are generally deemed jointly sufficient for the simplest, “minimal” life. He then built a theoretical model of a minimal living system that implements all these capacities.

What is the evolutionary transition marker of minimal consciousness? Following Gánti’s methodology we started by compiling a consensus list of consciousness characteristics based on the work of psychologists, philosophers, and neurobiologists:

Binding/unification: seeing the apple as a composite whole (red, round, smooth) yet with discernable features
Global accessibility and broadcast: back and forth interactions among specialized brain modules allowing comparisons, discriminations, generalizations, and evaluations that inform decision-making
Selective attention and active exclusion: excluding or amplifying signals according to past and present context
Intentionality (aboutness; representation): the mapping (representations) of body, world, action, and their relations
Integration through time: Holding on to incoming information long enough for it to be integrated and evaluated, so the present can be said to have duration
Flexible evaluative system and goals: evaluating perceptions and actions as rewarding or punishing according to context
Agency and embodiment: inherent spontaneous activity and goal-directed behavior
A sense of self: registration of self/other and a stable perspective
On the basis of this list, we suggest that the evolutionary transition marker of minimal consciousness, which is the within-lifetime analog of unlimited heredity in evolutionary time, is Unlimited associative learning (UAL). UAL is the within-lifetime analog of unlimited heredity in evolutionary time. An organism with a capacity for UAL can, during its own lifetime, go on learning from experience about the world and about itself in a practically unrestricted way.

If an animal shows unlimited associative learning (that is, practically unrestricted learning) it means that all the capacities of consciousness are in place.
Consciousness plays a central role in identifying the universal terminal goal.
« Last Edit: 01/07/2022 11:36:51 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #667 on: 05/07/2022 14:31:37 »
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2327107-deepminds-ai-develops-popular-policy-for-distributing-public-money/
Quote
DeepMind’s AI develops popular policy for distributing public money
DeepMind researchers have trained an AI system to find a popular policy for distributing public funds in an online game – but they also warn against “AI government”

A “democratic” AI system has learned how to develop the most popular policy for redistributing public money among people playing an online game.

“Many of the problems that humans face are not merely technological, but require us to coordinate in society and in our economies for the greater good,” says Raphael Koster at UK-based AI company DeepMind. “For AI to be able to help, it needs to learn directly about human values.”

The DeepMind team trained its artificial intelligence to learn from more than 4000 people as well as from computer simulations in an online, four-player economic game. In the game, players start with different amounts of money and must decide how much to contribute to help grow a pool of public funds, eventually receiving a share of the pot in return. Players also voted on their favourite policies for doling out public money.

The policy developed by the AI after this training generally tried to reduce wealth disparities between players by redistributing public money according to how much of their starting pot each player contributed. It also discouraged free-riders by giving back almost nothing to players unless they contributed approximately half their starting funds.

This AI-devised policy won more votes from human players than either an “egalitarian” approach of redistributing funds equally regardless of how much each person contributed, or a “libertarian” approach of handing out funds according to the proportion each person’s contribution makes up of the public pot.

“One thing we found surprising was that the AI learned a policy that reflects a mixture of views from across the political spectrum,” says Christopher Summerfield at DeepMind.

When there was the highest inequality between players at the start, a “liberal egalitarian” policy – which redistributed money according to the proportion of starting funds each player contributed, but didn’t discourage free-riders – proved as popular as the AI proposal, by getting more than 50 per cent of the vote share in a head-to-head contest.

The DeepMind researchers warn that their work doesn’t represent a recipe for “AI government”. They say they don’t plan to build AI-powered tools for policy-making.

That may be as well, because the AI proposal isn’t necessarily unique compared with what some people have already suggested, says Annette Zimmermann at the University of York, UK. Zimmermann also warned against focusing on a narrow idea of democracy as a “preference satisfaction” system for finding the most popular policies.

“Democracy isn’t just about winning, about getting whatever policy you like best implemented – it’s about creating processes during which citizens can encounter each other and deliberate with each other as equals,” says Zimmermann.

The DeepMind researchers do raise concerns about an AI-powered “tyranny of the majority” situation in which the needs of people in minority groups are overlooked. But that isn’t a huge worry among political scientists, says Mathias Risse at Harvard University. He says modern democracies face a bigger problem of “the many” becoming disenfranchised by the small minority of the economic elite, and dropping out of the political process altogether.

Still, Risse says the DeepMind research is “fascinating” in how it delivered a version of the liberal egalitarianism policy. “Since I’m in the liberal-egalitarian camp anyway, I find that a rather satisfactory result,” he says.
Considering the flaws we often found in human governments, AI government won't be a problem in itself. What's needed are the correct terminal goal and representative data.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #668 on: 05/07/2022 17:22:03 »
A game was played at several informal United Nations social gatherings in the 1960s. People entering the room were given four playing cards and told that they could trade them with anyone else in the room. No rules, no advice. But the cards weren't distributed randomly. In every case, the guys who were given four picture cards ended up holding all the cards.

 
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/07/2022 14:31:37
Zimmermann also warned against focusing on a narrow idea of democracy as a “preference satisfaction” system for finding the most popular policies.
With a name like Zimmerman, you would have thought this was instinctive. Or don't people study 20th century history these days?
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #669 on: 06/07/2022 03:03:08 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 05/07/2022 17:22:03
A game was played at several informal United Nations social gatherings in the 1960s. People entering the room were given four playing cards and told that they could trade them with anyone else in the room. No rules, no advice. But the cards weren't distributed randomly. In every case, the guys who were given four picture cards ended up holding all the cards.
I don't know if it was a real event or just an anecdote. Was there a time limit when the game ended? It can be considered a rule.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #670 on: 12/07/2022 00:32:19 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 01/07/2022 09:48:10
Consciousness plays a central role in identifying the universal terminal goal.
Here's a video explaining one form of consciousness, which came from evolutionary process by natural selection.


Quote
Peter Tse - What Makes Brains Conscious?

Everything we know, think and feel—everything!—comes from our brains. But consciousness, our private sense of inner awareness, remains a mystery. Brain activities—spiking of neuronal impulses, sloshing of neurochemicals—are not at all the same thing as sights, sounds, smells, emotions. How on earth can our inner experiences be explained in physical terms?



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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #671 on: 16/07/2022 12:18:02 »
Tha ability to make and choose conscious actions is the distinguishing feature between conscious beings and non-conscious beings. That conscious actions simply mean that they are planned, conceptualized, modeled, or virtualized beforehand.  Conscious beings have the ability to change the plan, in contrast to non-conscious beings who can only follow the plan.

For example, a smoke detector is planned to produce noise and blinking light when it detects smoke; otherwise, it will do nothing. Those are planned actions. But since it cannot choose to change the planned actions, we don't call it conscious.

That's why moral standards are needed to regulate behaviors of conscious beings, but not for non-conscious beings.
« Last Edit: 19/07/2022 10:51:41 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #672 on: 26/07/2022 14:20:40 »
Quote
Peter Tse - Why a Mind-Body Problem?
How does the brain produce the mind? This is one of the most difficult problems in science, because how can physical qualities, no matter how complex and sophisticated, actually be mental experiences? Electrical impulses and chemical flows are not at all the kind of stuff that thoughts and feelings are. The physical and the mental are different categories.
This is one of the best explanation of mind body problem.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #673 on: 27/07/2022 00:05:01 »
“All civilizations become either spacefaring or extinct.”
— Carl Sagan



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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #674 on: 30/07/2022 12:21:43 »

The video is in line with my previous take on population.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 15/01/2022 14:30:37
The word terminal in the term universal terminal goal emphasizes time dimension over space and the others. It's better to have a finite number of conscious entities for infinite time rather than infinite number of conscious entities for a finite amount of time.

Having more people is a good thing, up to a certain point where adding more will make things worse. We need to be aware of economic theory of diminishing marginal utility.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #675 on: 31/07/2022 17:48:51 »
Quote
This short video covers the key points of Chapter One "The Lesson" from Henry Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson."  Good economic policy analysis means assessing a policy's impacts on all groups in the long run, rather than the impacts on some in the short run.  Produced by Access Communications in collaboration with the Frontier Centre for Public Policy.
Macroeconomic policy is about long term consequences for more general population. Successful macroeconomic policies require well defined long term terminal goal, and accurate model of objective reality which describes cause and effect relationships.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #676 on: 15/08/2022 08:03:30 »
Quote
Exploring the Deep Mystery of Life's Origins
As an evolutionary biochemist at University College London, Nick Lane explores the deep mystery of how life evolved on Earth. His hypothesis that life arose through primitive metabolic reactions in deep-sea hydrothermal vents illuminates the outsized role that energy may have played in shaping evolution.

Consciousness emerged from life. While life itself emerged from continuous chemical reactions.
Understanding how they happened is important for us, and it can affect our decisions regarding our future.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #677 on: 19/08/2022 05:31:39 »

These philosophers' idea seems to converge with what has been presented here.

Longtermism: an idea that could save 100 billion trillion lives
Quote
Longtermism is the idea that because humanity's future is potentially vast in size, we could have a massive altruistic impact by positively influencing it. In this video, we illustrate the papers "The Case for Strong Longtermism" by Hilary Greaves and William MacAskill and "Astronomical Waste: The Opportunity Cost of Delayed Technological Development" by Nick Bostrom (links below). We'll examine two main ways in which we might most positively influence the far future: accelerating technological development and reducing existential risk, which is the risk of human extinction and of catastrophes so large that would curtail humanity's potential forever. Advancing technological progress and preventing existential risk look much more compelling under a totalist view of population ethics, but they still look extremely important even under a person-affecting view.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #678 on: 19/08/2022 05:34:17 »
Here is a sequel.


Can we make the future a million years from now go better?
Quote
In his new book about longtermism, What We Owe the Future, the philosopher William MacAskill argues that concern for the long-term future should be a key moral priority of our time. There are three central claims that justify this view. 1. Future people matter. 2. There could be a lot of them. 3. We can make their lives go better. In this video, we focus on the third claim.

We've had the opportunity to read What We Owe the Future in advance thanks to the Forethought Foundation. They reached out asking if we could make a video on the occasion of the book launch. We were happy to collaborate, to help spread the ideas of the longtermist philosophy as far as possible :)

My concern here, is the word "people" in the first central claim can be interpreted more broadly to make it more universal, to include various possible forms of consciousness in the future, not confined by what we already know from the past.
« Last Edit: 19/08/2022 05:44:09 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #679 on: 23/08/2022 12:24:54 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 19/08/2022 05:34:17
Here is a sequel.



Can we make the future a million years from now go better?
Quote
In his new book about longtermism, What We Owe the Future, the philosopher William MacAskill argues that concern for the long-term future should be a key moral priority of our time. There are three central claims that justify this view. 1. Future people matter. 2. There could be a lot of them. 3. We can make their lives go better. In this video, we focus on the third claim.

We've had the opportunity to read What We Owe the Future in advance thanks to the Forethought Foundation. They reached out asking if we could make a video on the occasion of the book launch. We were happy to collaborate, to help spread the ideas of the longtermist philosophy as far as possible :)

My concern here, is the word "people" in the first central claim can be interpreted more broadly to make it more universal, to include various possible forms of consciousness in the future, not confined by what we already know from the past.

Of course we can, that's where we're heading, in fact that would be a perfect world (perfect for the near future)
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