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  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
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Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #780 on: 24/04/2023 17:29:27 »
Ford conducted extensive and deep market research and came up with the Edsel, which nearly bankrupted that company.

The definition of "good" market research is one that comes up with a product that people actually want, before anyone else has thought of it. It is really just a lottery, because the customer rarely knows what he wants because he doesn't know what is possible.

Returning to aviation matters, de Havilland developed the Mosquito independently and in spite of consistent rejection by the Air Ministry, right up until the moment it actually flew and outperformed everything else.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #781 on: 25/04/2023 06:41:33 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 24/04/2023 17:29:27
Ford conducted extensive and deep market research and came up with the Edsel, which nearly bankrupted that company.
It means that their research wasn't good enough.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #782 on: 25/04/2023 07:19:12 »
The AGI Moloch: Nash Equilibrium, Attractor States, and Heuristic Imperatives: How to Achieve Utopia

Also important, how to avoid dystopia and extinction.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #783 on: 25/04/2023 07:42:58 »
AI Alignment Problem - with Philosopher John Patrick Morgan - (Max Tegmark, davinci, ChatGPT, GPT-4)


A top comment on the video.
Quote
This video changed my perspective of AI alignment. I see it now. It's not about commandments and techniques.. we can't align a super being; same way as aligning our kids. We need a more philosophical approach.
We need to teach them the concepts of universal terminal goal, universal moral standard, universal moral compass, and critical thinking before they get too powerful which would make their mistakes more costly and damaging to the civilization.
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Offline Zer0

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #784 on: 25/04/2023 21:41:45 »
Kids grow up to become Better versions of Us.

While We grow old n slower, they grow young & faster.

The Mysterious Programming Code that helps to form an Unbreakable connection between Us & Them...
Is not the Brain..
Rather, the Heart!
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #785 on: 26/04/2023 11:27:48 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/04/2023 07:42:58
We need to teach them
Who them? AI is a tool that people use to progress their desires. Always ask "who stands to gain?"
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #786 on: 29/04/2023 07:35:42 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 26/04/2023 11:27:48
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/04/2023 07:42:58
We need to teach them
Who them? AI is a tool that people use to progress their desires. Always ask "who stands to gain?"
AI models.
The conscious entities who exist in the future should be the ones to gain.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #787 on: 29/04/2023 07:39:24 »
Quote from: Zer0 on 25/04/2023 21:41:45
Kids grow up to become Better versions of Us.

While We grow old n slower, they grow young & faster.

The Mysterious Programming Code that helps to form an Unbreakable connection between Us & Them...
Is not the Brain..
Rather, the Heart!
Do you mean it literally, or figuratively?
What do you think about heart transplant? Would it change someone's personality?
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #788 on: 29/04/2023 07:59:47 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/04/2023 07:42:58
AI Alignment Problem - with Philosopher John Patrick Morgan - (Max Tegmark, davinci, ChatGPT, GPT-4)
Alignment problem is not about aligning goals of AI models to humans who create them. We've seen humans whose goals are not aligned with most other modern human values.
Alignment problem is about aligning goals of AI models as well as humans or any lifeform who create them with the universal terminal goal.

I've uploaded a new video about the most universal goal logically conceivable. It describes goal in the most general sense, which should precede the first video about the universal terminal goal.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #789 on: 29/04/2023 12:09:12 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/04/2023 07:39:24
What do you think about heart transplant? Would it change someone's personality?
Weirdly, there is at least one documented case where it did. A diet-conscious teenage girl received a heart from an anonymous donor and developed an uncharacteristic craving for chicken nuggets and beer. She tracked down the donor and met his mum who said that he was an enthusiastic biker who lived on - guess what?
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #790 on: 29/04/2023 12:11:41 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/04/2023 07:35:42
The conscious entities who exist in the future should be the ones to gain.
You continue to use "conscious entities" which gives parasites like mosquitoes and philosophers the same rights as humans. But the operative word here is "should". Very few people use a tool to benefit anyone other than themselves and their immediate descendants.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #791 on: 29/04/2023 21:36:01 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/04/2023 07:39:24
Quote from: Zer0 on 25/04/2023 21:41:45
Kids grow up to become Better versions of Us.

While We grow old n slower, they grow young & faster.

The Mysterious Programming Code that helps to form an Unbreakable connection between Us & Them...
Is not the Brain..
Rather, the Heart!
Do you mean it literally, or figuratively?
What do you think about heart transplant? Would it change someone's personality?

A Human Being is Entitled to make that statement, Literally.
A Robot can Only understand it, Figuratively.

Memory doesn't just reside in the Brain.
It's present in Cells too.

Anyways, the Question remains, could/should/would We program AGI to Feel & Experience Emotions?
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #792 on: 29/04/2023 21:41:17 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 29/04/2023 12:09:12
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/04/2023 07:39:24
What do you think about heart transplant? Would it change someone's personality?
Weirdly, there is at least one documented case where it did. A diet-conscious teenage girl received a heart from an anonymous donor and developed an uncharacteristic craving for chicken nuggets and beer. She tracked down the donor and met his mum who said that he was an enthusiastic biker who lived on - guess what?

Had heard talk of Pig to Human transplants...
Curious..
Does it make people wanna roll in the mud n eat sheet?
(lol)
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #793 on: 30/04/2023 07:34:41 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 29/04/2023 12:11:41
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/04/2023 07:35:42
The conscious entities who exist in the future should be the ones to gain.
You continue to use "conscious entities" which gives parasites like mosquitoes and philosophers the same rights as humans. But the operative word here is "should". Very few people use a tool to benefit anyone other than themselves and their immediate descendants.
Right is a human constrict, which was used to help making some useful decision making process quicker. Although it may make sub-optimum decisions some times.
What you should do generally will produce more desirable results than the alternatives.
Your future consideration defines your consciousness level.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #794 on: 30/04/2023 08:22:23 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 29/04/2023 12:09:12
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/04/2023 07:39:24
What do you think about heart transplant? Would it change someone's personality?
Weirdly, there is at least one documented case where it did. A diet-conscious teenage girl received a heart from an anonymous donor and developed an uncharacteristic craving for chicken nuggets and beer. She tracked down the donor and met his mum who said that he was an enthusiastic biker who lived on - guess what?
There's also a study that human behaviors are affected by gut microbiome.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #795 on: 30/04/2023 08:52:45 »
Quote from: Zer0 on 29/04/2023 21:36:01
Memory doesn't just reside in the Brain.
It's present in Cells too.
Do you mean something like vaccination?
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #796 on: 30/04/2023 08:56:40 »
Quote from: Zer0 on 29/04/2023 21:36:01
Anyways, the Question remains, could/should/would We program AGI to Feel & Experience Emotions?
I think we should make them understand feelings and emotions, so they can make accurate prediction for human behaviors which they would interact with. But not necessary make them act based on their own feelings and emotions. Especially when their rational thinking can already give better decisions without sacrificing too much time and energy in the process.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #797 on: 30/04/2023 09:06:51 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/04/2023 07:59:47
I've uploaded a new video about the most universal goal logically conceivable. It describes goal in the most general sense, which should precede the first video about the universal terminal goal.
The most universal goal is keeping the existence of goal itself, unrestricted by any arbitrary constraint. It leads to keeping the existence of future conscious entities indefinitely. Any goal contrary to that universal goal, as well as the conscious entities who embrace it, will stop being meaningful at some point in time, and become irrelevant for conscious entities who exist after them.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #798 on: 30/04/2023 09:17:00 »
I'm preparing next video about cogito ergo sum as the first knowledge. Stay tuned.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #799 on: 30/04/2023 23:42:56 »
It's not a useful phrase. A rock definitely exists but almost certainly doesn't think, so thinking is neither a necessary nor sufficient criterion of existence, ergo ergo is not demonstrated.
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