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  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
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Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1600 on: 06/09/2024 04:25:06 »
Why We Can't Find Meaning and What to Do About It - Alex O'Connor and John Vervaeke
Quote
This conversation took place at the Dissident Dialogues festival in Brooklyn in May 2024.

 - TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
2:50 Is there a meaning crisis?
11:56 Is philosophy the way to meaning?
18:50 The value of the non-propositional
25:05 Are we screwed?
One of top comments I found.
Quote
Reminds me of a quote I read a couple days ago. It was basically explaining that it was only the Europeans who were trying to find a grand meaning to life, while when a Native American was asked what the meaning of life is, he simply said it's to just be alive.

I think the problem these days and this whole chatter about a "meaning crisis" is just us having been conditioned by our economic system to always want more and never be content. We just need to be grateful for being alive and honestly stop thinking so hard about the meaning of it all.

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1601 on: 06/09/2024 14:12:51 »
What does "meaning" mean?

Life is a remarkable chemical process, nothing more nor less.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1602 on: 07/09/2024 05:23:36 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 06/09/2024 14:12:51
What does "meaning" mean?

Life is a remarkable chemical process, nothing more nor less.

Have you found the meaning of life?
Or do you think it's meaningless?
« Last Edit: 07/09/2024 05:36:44 by hamdani yusuf »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1603 on: 07/09/2024 05:36:48 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 06/09/2024 04:25:06
Why We Can't Find Meaning and What to Do About It - Alex O'Connor and John Vervaeke
Quote
This conversation took place at the Dissident Dialogues festival in Brooklyn in May 2024.

 - TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
2:50 Is there a meaning crisis?
11:56 Is philosophy the way to meaning?
18:50 The value of the non-propositional
25:05 Are we screwed?
One of top comments I found.
Quote
Reminds me of a quote I read a couple days ago. It was basically explaining that it was only the Europeans who were trying to find a grand meaning to life, while when a Native American was asked what the meaning of life is, he simply said it's to just be alive.

I think the problem these days and this whole chatter about a "meaning crisis" is just us having been conditioned by our economic system to always want more and never be content. We just need to be grateful for being alive and honestly stop thinking so hard about the meaning of it all.

Alex O'Connor quotes a Blaise Pascal's book At 4:50 about boredom and gambling with his thought experiment.

I also mentioned the role of probability in defining goals.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 08/08/2024 05:53:15
I defined goal as pursued condition, which means it's a desired condition in the future which can be pursued. The probability to achieve it must be between 0 and 1, excluding 0 and 1.
To have a goal, an entity needs these components:
- imagination/virtualization of physical condition through space and time.
- preference for conditions.
- perception of the physical conditions to check whether or not the goal is achieved.
- actuation to alter physical conditions.
- causality model to predict the consequences of each possible action or inaction.

Those are components of consciousness, which is defined as the capacity to pursue goals. I've drawn the functional block diagram of consciousness in my video.

While the goal is what we need to determine what should we do instead of nothing. Our terminal goals are the ultimate reason why we do something instead of nothing.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 06/07/2024 15:06:31
Why should we do anything instead of nothing?
If the result is the same, doing nothing is the most efficient way. But if we consistently do nothing, sooner or later the entropy will take over, and we will stop being conscious.
Being conscious requires a lot of things to get right. Consciousness needs a complex system which is extremely unlikely to appear randomly in a single event.
In other words, to be conscious is to struggle against entropy.
« Last Edit: 08/09/2024 06:48:55 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1604 on: 07/09/2024 05:40:30 »
The Most Vile Financial Influencer
Quote
Robert Kiyosaki wrote one of the most famous personal finance books of all time: Rich Dad Poor Dad. But his advice, when followed by someone by my family, created dire consequences.

00:00 Intro
01:20 RK's Toxic Ideas
04:30 Buffett on Leverage
06:00 RK on Saving
07:51 Buffett on Inflation
11:30 Conclusion
Morally good actions should make the lives of future conscious entities easier. Investments are part of economic activities. How they affect   future conscious entities determine if they are good investments.
« Last Edit: 08/09/2024 06:55:36 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1605 on: 10/09/2024 19:45:18 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 07/09/2024 05:23:36
Have you found the meaning of life?
Or do you think it's meaningless?

"Mean" is a transitive verb: "X means something to A" where A is a living thing.

Life is the unique and universal property of all living things L1, L2,.......

There being no external A outside of the set {L}, life cannot have a meaning.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1606 on: 16/09/2024 02:35:34 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 10/09/2024 19:45:18
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 07/09/2024 05:23:36
Have you found the meaning of life?
Or do you think it's meaningless?

"Mean" is a transitive verb: "X means something to A" where A is a living thing.

Life is the unique and universal property of all living things L1, L2,.......

There being no external A outside of the set {L}, life cannot have a meaning.

How do you define life?
Why must A be outside of L?
What's the problem with "future version of X is meaningful to present X?"
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1607 on: 16/09/2024 14:42:47 »
What Does the AI Boom Really Mean for Humanity?
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Artificial intelligence has begun to exhibit early signs of agency. Are we on a path to superintelligence? Self destruction? Or is the potential promise and threat of AI being overblown?

Do you want to know what your future holds? A life beyond 150 years old? A world where computers can read our emotions? A planet transformed by unlimited clean energy? Mathematician Hannah Fry will explore these questions and more.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1608 on: 17/09/2024 15:16:29 »
How To Live a Meaningful Life
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What makes for a meaningful life? Social psychologist Brian S. Lowery explores three ideas tied to the experience of meaning and shows why simply pursuing personal achievements isn't the best way to find it. (Recorded at TED2024 on April 19, 2024)
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1609 on: 23/09/2024 10:20:35 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 07/09/2024 05:40:30
Morally good actions should make the lives of future conscious entities easier. Investments are part of economic activities. How they affect   future conscious entities determine if they are good investments.

Here's a math video about optimizing investment.
The "Just One More" Paradox
Quote
It seems some viewers were confused by how I calculated 15% in the first equation.
To clarify, 15% is the expected return for only one bet, in isolation from the others.
Here's the same equation written in a more conventional way:

1/2 (0.5) + 1/2 (1.8) = 1.15

And indeed, 15% is the growth rate of the population average (but not median and mode).

If you'd like to learn how to calculate expected return: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_return

And while this isn't strictly mathematically a paradox, I used the term in the colloquial sense, as it appeared in this article:
Myers, J. K. (2021). Multiplicative Gains, Non-ergodic Utility, and the Just One More Paradox (with Supplemental Information). https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-237495/latest.pdf

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1610 on: 23/09/2024 15:25:50 »
UBI Failed and Everyone Is Pretending It Didn't
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Lots of good discussion in the comments, I know this topic by nature is a little controversial. Thank you for the enthusiasm, everyone!

Just wanted to address a few common themes:

1. Yes, Milton Friedman's idea for a negative income tax works quite differently to this form of monthly income UBI. Should have made that clearer in the video. Let me know if you want a follow-up video on that.

2. Some people are saying that it's fine to be poorer if they're happier. The study did measure this and people were NOT happier in the long run. Happiness increased from year 1, but disappeared by year 3. People simply habituated to the higher income. https://openresearch-web.files.svdcdn.com/production/assets/documents/Documentation/w32784.pdf?dm=1723679143

3. Some people are saying that working less and spending more on leisure should improve physical and mental health. The study also measured this and found no improvements, not even a small improvement in physical health. Mental health was boosted in year 1 (as you would expect) but disappeared by year 2. Again, people just habituated to the money. https://openresearch-web.files.svdcdn.com/production/assets/documents/Documentation/w32711.pdf?dm=1721432661

4. And finally, yes, a true UBI study can never be done unless you truly give everyone in the country the money, which yes, will have a greater impact on things like inflation. Valid point.

So in summary, this study showed that UBI (in the form of $1000 per month) makes Americans poorer ($1000 on average), with no long-term improvements in happiness, physical health, mental health or financial stability.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1611 on: 28/09/2024 12:04:23 »
Live Forever - AGI by 2029 - Singularity by 2045 - Ray Kurzweil's new book Singularity is Nearer
Quote
Key Highlights from "The Singularity is Nearer"

Ray Kurzweil, a visionary futurist, has a track record of accurately predicting technological advancements. His latest work, "The Singularity is Nearer," builds on his previous predictions, offering a detailed roadmap of the transformative changes we can expect in the coming decades. Here are some of the key highlights that Daniel Kafer will explore in this video:

1. Historical Predictions and Accuracy
Chess and Computers (2000): Kurzweil predicted that computers would surpass human chess champions by the year 2000, a feat achieved when IBM's Deep Blue defeated Garry Kasparov.
Internet Explosion (1990s): He foresaw the rapid growth of the internet and its profound impact on communication, commerce, and entertainment.
Speech Recognition (Early 2000s): Kurzweil accurately predicted the rise of highly accurate and widely used speech recognition technology.

2. The Path to the Singularity
Exponential Growth in Computing: Kurzweil?s "law of accelerating returns" suggests that computing power becomes exponentially cheaper and more powerful. Since 2005, the cost of computing has dropped dramatically, making superhuman AI increasingly feasible.
2020s - The Decade of Human-like AI: Kurzweil anticipates that during this decade, AI will become convincingly human in interactions, and simple brain-computer interfaces will become as commonplace as smartphones, revolutionizing daily life.
Biotechnological Advancements: This decade will also see a digital revolution in biotechnology, curing diseases and significantly extending healthy lifespans.

3. Future Predictions: 2030s and Beyond
Self-Improving AI and Nanotechnology: The 2030s will see the union of self-improving AI and mature nanotechnology, further integrating humans and machines.
The Singularity (2045): By 2045, Kurzweil predicts a profound transformation of life on Earth, with humans merging seamlessly with machines. This epoch, known as the Singularity, will bring unprecedented opportunities and challenges.

4. Addressing Challenges and Opportunities
Economic Disruption: The rise of automation and AI will inevitably cause economic disruptions, particularly in employment. However, Kurzweil remains optimistic about the long-term benefits and the new opportunities that will arise.
Ethical and Social Considerations: The integration of AI into society brings ethical, social, and political challenges that we must address to harness its full potential.

5. AI?s Progress and Limitations
Overcoming AI?s Shortcomings: Kurzweil discusses the current limitations of AI, such as contextual memory, common sense, and social interaction. These challenges are expected to be addressed in the near future, bringing AI closer to human-level intelligence.
Training and Data: The effectiveness of AI depends on the accessibility and quality of training data. While some skills are easy to quantify and gather data for, others, like legal case outcomes, are more complex.

6. The AGI and ASI Debate
Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) vs. Artificial Superintelligence (ASI): Kurzweil explores the potential pathways to achieving AGI and the subsequent transition to ASI. This debate highlights the varying degrees of AI capabilities and their implications for the future.

7. Feedback Loops in AI Development
Hard vs. Soft Takeoff: Kurzweil explains the concept of feedback loops in AI development, where AI can improve its own programming skills, leading to rapid advancements. This process could either be a gradual (soft) or explosive (hard) transition.

8. Brain-Computer Interfaces and Human Evolution
Non-invasive Neuro Links: By the 2030s, Kurzweil envisions the development of non-invasive brain-computer interfaces, allowing humans to expand their cognitive capabilities.
Expanding the Neocortex: This expansion will be akin to the leap from the brains of monkeys to humans, potentially allowing for a million-fold increase in cognitive capacity by the 2040s.
Join Daniel Kafer as he unpacks these fascinating insights and explores the transformative journey that Kurzweil predicts. This video is not just about understanding the future; it's about preparing for it. Whether you're a tech enthusiast, a futurist, or simply curious about the incredible possibilities of tomorrow, this is a must-watch!

Watch Now and Be Part of the Future!
An optimistic prediction.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1612 on: 28/09/2024 17:40:58 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/09/2024 02:35:34
What's the problem with "future version of X is meaningful to present X?"
Because Xfuture does not exist (by definition) and therefore does not qualify as "life".
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1613 on: 29/09/2024 07:22:37 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 28/09/2024 17:40:58
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 16/09/2024 02:35:34
What's the problem with "future version of X is meaningful to present X?"
Because Xfuture does not exist (by definition) and therefore does not qualify as "life".
By definition, a goal is a future condition.
If you think that life has no meaning, what's keeping you alive? Why didn't you just let it go?
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1614 on: 29/09/2024 12:54:21 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/09/2024 07:22:37
If you think that life has no meaning, what's keeping you alive? Why didn't you just let it go?
Because I enjoy it. At some point, it the pleasure will be outweighed by physical or mental pain and I will kill myself.

"I'll eat when I'm hungry
I'll drink when I'm dry
An' if the devil don't get me
I'll live 'til I die".
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1615 on: 29/09/2024 14:52:42 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 29/09/2024 12:54:21
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/09/2024 07:22:37
If you think that life has no meaning, what's keeping you alive? Why didn't you just let it go?
Because I enjoy it. At some point, it the pleasure will be outweighed by physical or mental pain and I will kill myself.

"I eat when I'm hungry
I drink when I'm dry
An' if the devil don't get me
I'll live 'til I die".
Then your terminal goal is to get pleasure and avoid pain. Not much different from children.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1616 on: 29/09/2024 14:54:30 »
What Aristotle Knew About Oligarchy That We Forgot
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How do the wealthy few come to rule, and why does it matter? Aristotle tackled these questions 2300 years ago, and his answers are still eye-opening today.

In this video, we explore Aristotle's book "Politics," where he breaks down different types of government, including oligarchy - when the rich call the shots. Aristotle didn't just theorize; he studied 158 constitutions from Greek city-states and beyond, giving us deep insights into how governments really work.
Following our last video on tyranny, we now turn to oligarchy, another system Aristotle saw as problematic. We'll examine how leadership based on merit can gradually shift into rule by the wealthy, and the various forms this can take. Aristotle's keen observations help us spot the signs of wealth steering the ship of state, even in seemingly democratic systems.

We'll also discuss Aristotle's thoughts on the fall of oligarchies. How did these regimes topple if money speaks louder than the voices of ordinary citizens? Aristotle's analysis of how money and power intertwine is as relevant now as it was in ancient Greece. His insights shed light on political dynamics that continue to shape our world today.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1617 on: 29/09/2024 15:06:10 »
The Timeless Truth About Tyranny According to Aristotle
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Is your government slowly becoming tyrannical? Aristotle warned us 2,300 years ago.

In this eye-opening exploration of Aristotle's analysis of tyranny, we delve into the timeless insights of one of history's greatest political thinkers. Drawing from Aristotle's great work "Politics," we uncover the mechanisms of tyrannical rule that are as relevant today as they were in ancient Greece.
Discover how Aristotle's experiences with the Thirty Tyrants of Athens and his personal relationship with the tyrant Hermias shaped his understanding of unjust rule.
Learn the tactics tyrants use to rise to power and maintain their grip on society - from manipulating public opinion to undermining social trust.
We'll explore the true nature of tyranny according to Aristotle, how tyrants differ from legitimate rulers, the ways tyrannies often come to power, Aristotle's list of tyrannical tactics, many still used today, and why Aristotle believed all tyrannies are doomed to fail.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:40 What is Tyranny?
3:58 Rise of Tyrants
5:59 Tactics of Tyrants
9:50 Downfall of Tyrants
12:10 Outro
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1618 on: 29/09/2024 15:26:04 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/09/2024 14:52:42
Then your terminal goal is to get pleasure and avoid pain. Not much different from children.

A continuous objective (every moment is a pleasure and there is always a bit of pain) is not a terminal goal. The defined decision point when B > A does not imply any meaning or extrinsic value to the process.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1619 on: 30/09/2024 09:58:56 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 29/09/2024 15:26:04
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 29/09/2024 14:52:42
Then your terminal goal is to get pleasure and avoid pain. Not much different from children.

A continuous objective (every moment is a pleasure and there is always a bit of pain) is not a terminal goal. The defined decision point when B > A does not imply any meaning or extrinsic value to the process.

Since you haven't found your terminal goal, you treat that continuous objective as if it's your terminal goal, because nothing else has higher priority to pursue.
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