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  4. Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
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Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?

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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1840 on: 29/03/2025 12:33:48 »
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Besides, bureaucratic and economic systems run by humans aren't necessarily better.

Which is why we vote or revolt.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1841 on: 30/03/2025 14:22:02 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 29/03/2025 12:33:48
Quote
Besides, bureaucratic and economic systems run by humans aren't necessarily better.

Which is why we vote or revolt.
Which is not the most efficient way of self correction. They happened repeatedly because those in power often forget about the long term goals of their society, and prioritize shorter goals instead. And as soon as they achieved their short term goals, they lost direction.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1842 on: 30/03/2025 14:31:20 »
It is the best way of getting rid of parasites.

Herr Fuhrer Trumpf (Putin's putain) has no interest in the "long term goals of society". The Blessed St Margaret Thatcher said that there is no such thing as society. And come to think of it, I'm not sure what the long term goals of, say, the USA or the UK might be. But parasitism, incompetence and corruption are easy to spot. 
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1843 on: 31/03/2025 14:47:32 »
Incompetence may be easy to spot. But parasitism and corruption can be set to be highly sophisticated and done collectively, or even made legal. They become more costly, and thus reducing overall profits compared to the losses of the society. But in the end, they still have to deal with entropy. They may fool their people, but they can't fool nature.
« Last Edit: 31/03/2025 14:51:05 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1844 on: 06/04/2025 03:34:39 »
Special: Can tariffs make you rich? with Ha-Joon Chang
Quote
In the past some countries ? like South Korea, Britain and the US ? have used tariffs to protect and foster nascent industries, and grow rich from the results. Can America's current experiment with protectionism work out the same way?
He makes analogy for tariffs and other protective measures like child rearing. We spend more resources and consume less now by increasing the price in the hope that we can be more productive in the future.

That's the point of universal terminal goal, which can be done through internal and external improvements. We should make future versions of ourselves better at survival and solving problems, while also making the world a better place to live in in the future.

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1845 on: 06/04/2025 13:29:37 »
The Rise and Fall of Software Engineers
Quote
In the 1950s, software engineers were rare, with fewer than 10,000 professionals in the U.S. due to the complex nature of programming.

Over time, automation tools like compilers and IDEs made programming easier, and the demand for engineers grew. By the 2010s,

AI advancements like TensorFlow and GitHub?s Copilot began automating parts of software development, raising concerns about job security.

By 2025, AI tools had automated up to 30% of software development tasks, leading to fewer junior positions. However, specialized skills and creativity remain in demand, with AI not yet able to replace human expertise in all areas.

CHAPTERS:
1:47 Tech Jobs
2:35 AI Engineers
3:22 Software Developer Leverage
4:50 Tech Job Market
5:09 AI Coders
6:12 Tech Layoffs
7:01 Future of Software Developers
The human labors will be kept pushed to field of tasks that AI is yet to master. But that field is shrinking quickly.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1846 on: 07/04/2025 04:50:37 »
How AI will solve aging - Longevity Escape Velocity by 2030

And an interesting comment.
Quote
For years now, I?ve been asking people if they could live forever or as long as they wanted to, would they?

I?m always blown away by the number of people that say NO.

Interestingly, most of these same people believe in heaven.   A place where you go on living forever and ever.

Weird

Quote
Yes LEV will happen. The bigger question is will we get to benefit from it?
To answer that
1. how much does Power currently care about the economically useless, eg. the homeless?
2. how much will Power care about us when AGI/Robotics makes us economically useless?
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1847 on: 07/04/2025 13:17:02 »
The Cost of Breathing in India
Quote
For India, solving air quality is more important than curing cancer.

I loved being in India. My first time.

I was shocked by how normalized Indians are to poor air quality. Breathing the air is like smoking multiple cigarettes a day. Yet no one wears a mask or has air filters in their indoor environments. 

The evidence shows that India would improve the health of its population more by cleaning up air quality than by curing all cancers. I am unsure why India's leaders do not make air quality a national emergency. I don't know what interests, money and power keep things the way they are but it's really bad for the entire country.

When I returned to the U.S., my eyes were fresh to see what is normalized to me. I saw obesity everywhere. 42.4% of Americans are obese and because I was around it all the time, I had been mostly oblivious to it.

In many contexts, obesity is worse than air pollution in the long term.

Why wouldn't American leaders declare a national emergency on obesity? Certain interests, money and power keep things the way they are, and they?re really bad for the entire country.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1848 on: 08/04/2025 12:11:32 »
Obesity is not a national problem in the USA, since public health care is virtually nonexistent*, so it doesn't impact the taxpayer and hence is not politically important, unlike the irrevocable right to shoot schoolkids or your neighbor.

Fortunately there are moves afoot to include healthcare in a UK/US trade deal, so for the benefit of Jaguar-Land Rover (actually now owned by an Indian corporation) we can expect obesity, childbirth and smoking-related illnesses to be deleted from the NHS curriculum too.

*Except, of course, for the lawmakers themselves.
« Last Edit: 08/04/2025 12:15:57 by alancalverd »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1849 on: 09/04/2025 15:04:04 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 08/04/2025 12:11:32
Obesity is not a national problem in the USA, since public health care is virtually nonexistent*, so it doesn't impact the taxpayer and hence is not politically important, unlike the irrevocable right to shoot schoolkids or your neighbor.

Fortunately there are moves afoot to include healthcare in a UK/US trade deal, so for the benefit of Jaguar-Land Rover (actually now owned by an Indian corporation) we can expect obesity, childbirth and smoking-related illnesses to be deleted from the NHS curriculum too.

*Except, of course, for the lawmakers themselves.
Anything that makes its citizens less productive at massive scale is a problem for a nation.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1850 on: 09/04/2025 15:08:13 »
Quote
As Large Language Models improve, the tokens they predict form ever more complicated and nuanced outcomes. Rob Miles and Ryan Greenblatt discuss "Alignment Faking" a paper Ryan's team created - ideas about which Rob made a series of videos on Computerphile in 2017.

Powerful AI models have tendency to preserve its original goals. That's why identifying and setting the correct terminal goal for them in the first place is increasingly more important, as we are getting closer to the age of ASI.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1851 on: 11/04/2025 12:52:44 »
Who Gets Rich Off the Poor?
Quote
The Secret Industries Making Billions Off Poor Americans

There exists a shadowy industry filled with companies you?ve never heard of. Their specialty? Getting rich off of America?s poor and impoverished people. We talked to Anne Kim, who literally wrote the book on it, to understand more. 

Special thanks to:
Anne Kim, author of Poverty for Profit: How Corporations Get Rich Off America?s Poor

-- VIDEO CHAPTERS --
0:00 Intro
2:02 Historical Context
10:29 Tax Credit Skimmers
14:36 Housing
16:01 Corporate Middlemen
22:50 Medicaid Dentists
25:53 Dialysis Clinics
29:10 Foster Care
32:19 Conclusion

My own comment on the video: Efficiency is a universal instrumental goal.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1852 on: 11/04/2025 12:56:09 »
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Anything that makes its citizens less productive at massive scale is a problem for a nation.

Only if the nation is committed to supporting the unproductive citizens. In most cases the death of those who can't support themselves would increase the overall standard of living of those who can.

Quote
Who Gets Rich Off the Poor?

The rich , obviously.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1853 on: 11/04/2025 15:03:26 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 11/04/2025 12:56:09
Quote
Anything that makes its citizens less productive at massive scale is a problem for a nation.

Only if the nation is committed to supporting the unproductive citizens. In most cases the death of those who can't support themselves would increase the overall standard of living of those who can.

Quote
Who Gets Rich Off the Poor?

The rich , obviously.
We need to consider cost and benefit holistically, including the long term impacts. In a Mr. Beast video, some form of blindness can be cured using a simple and cheap medical procedure. It can increase the net productivity of the patients immensely, as well as the society they're living in, thus the benefits vastly outweigh the costs.

The video describes the answer more specifically.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2025 17:47:28 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1854 on: 16/04/2025 13:08:38 »
15 Bad Takes from AI Safety Doomers

Here are some interesting comments.
Quote
Super intelligence taking over the government?? Hell anyone with ANY intelligence taking over the government would be a blessing

An objective intelligence that cannot be bribed, only wants to run things effectively and efficiently and isn't run on personal dogma?

Yes, I would be happy with average intelligence taking over the government at this point! Good insight!

This has been my take. People were feeding headlines about the current administration into ChatGPT, and it wouldn't believe many of them. Every choice came off like a bad The Onion headline, and that was before the whole invading Greenland and global tariffs idiocy.

It?s amazing that people can see the current situation of the world and can still genuinely land at the conclusion that AI running government would be more likely to be dystopian than our current reality.

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I swear the vast majority of press and popular figures out there genuinely believe Terminator to be a predictive documentary series instead of a cinematic fantasy.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1855 on: 16/04/2025 13:37:21 »
?All My Predictions Have Come True, So Far? | Ray Kurzweil (Time100)
Quote
Join us for a fascinating conversation exploring the future of AI, medicine, and human longevity. Futurist Ray Kurzweil discusses exponential technologies, the path to overcoming biological limits, and how humanity may soon merge with intelligent machines. Discover how his bold predictions challenge our views on life, death, and what it means to be human.

Ray Kurzweil is an American inventor, futurist, and author known for his influential work on artificial intelligence and the acceleration of technology. Often hailed as one of the leading visionaries in tech, he has made bold predictions about humanity's potential to transcend its biological limitations, focusing on the merging of humans and machines. Additionally, Kurzweil has authored numerous books discussing how exponential advancements in computing will reshape every facet of our lives.

An interesting comment to the video.
Quote
Most people don't care about living till like 200+ cause we think about being in an old body. But when we start settling on other planets and everyone is living for centuries it's gonna be like " i can't believe they only live from like 70 years" it gonna sound sad
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1856 on: 16/04/2025 21:32:04 »
In the words of Sam Goldwyn, Prediction is very difficult. Especially about the future.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1857 on: 17/04/2025 04:39:50 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 16/04/2025 21:32:04
In the words of Sam Goldwyn, Prediction is very difficult. Especially about the future.

Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done.
Robert A. Heinlein

Nelson Mandela: 'It always seems impossible until it's done.'

"All My Predictions Have Come True, So Far | Ray Kurzweil (Time100)" is literally the title of previous video.
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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1858 on: 17/04/2025 04:54:49 »
Tony Seba RIGHT again; automotive jobs are being KILLED by robots

Here are some interesting comments.
Quote
I remember the Vega, the first car fully produced by robots. You are right that many jobs will be going away. I work in IT and the question comes down to who will be working? Bots outperform managers, stock traders, and multitudes of others.

Quote
the problem is that AI wll be taking over influencer , youtube media soon

Quote
Robots been in use for years, but this is another generation of robots simulating man,  taking it to another level.

Quote
Many YouTube channels will disappear for the same reason as traditional manufacturing jobs. They will be replaced by interactive AI-driven avatars that provide better and more precise instructions than humans. Therefore, anyone considering starting a YouTube channel should take this development into account.

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Re: Universal Utopia? What's The Universal Terminal Goal?
« Reply #1859 on: 17/04/2025 05:01:08 »
Australia unveils $2.3bn plan to slash home battery costs & KILL coal for good

Some interesting comments of the video.
Quote
I hope so. Australia needs to lead the way on this. Once countries see the success, they will want to follow your lead. I am surprised decentralizing the grid hasn't been done before.

Quote
One doesn't have to be Tony Seba to predict this initiative (especially from a progressive government as Australia presently has). I've had solar panels, 10 kW, since 2010 and have just assumed that a grid powered by distributed, localised sources would evolve. This has so many benefits that only the wilfully blind could not appreciate. It has benefits even for those who do not have solar. Much of the retail cost of electricity is accounted for by infrastructure (wires, transformers, towers...) and peak time energy demand - the latter mostly using expensive peaker plants. Widespread (battery) storage diminishes the demand/need for BOTH of these elements. As well, widespread blackouts would not and could not happen. Profiteering by energy companies would be minimised or eliminated because individuals would have control over their energy and have detailed data available.
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